Volourn's Early Final Fantasy 12 Impressions

[Darque]

This is about FFXII anyway.

 

Who disagrees that there is a FFT vibe. Music, atmosphere, names, I don't know why but I feel this is Ivalice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Maybe... because it's made by the same guy who headed FFT and the fact it IS in Ivalice.

[ramza]

HOW DARE YOU GUYS MOCK THE MIGHTY FFT? Besides, it's not fair comparing any other FF game with FFT, since the latter is a strategy game and not a RPG.

 

The game was not THAT unbalanced. Each class had its pros and cons, but it is true that players would prefer some classes over others (summoners, calculators and lancers being my favorite... on the other hand, what was the purpose of bard, dancers or mimics? maybe to add some flavour to the game). It was the inclusion of Cid in your party that ruined the game since he could wipe out just ANY for within one round (or two at worst).

 

The story was really interesting but it was a shame that there wasn't that many dialogs and that some of the key characters wouldn't say anything more once they joined your party (they would just turn to mindless puppets). The game would have been great if there was a multiplayer option: it would have been as if playing chess with pawns that had special abilities (that would be great in my opinion).

 

While FFT could have been a better game on many points, it still was the best strategy game ever made for ps1. And I loved the game's story and intrigue (the ending was weird but not bad either).

[Darque]

You could, in theory, max out your character's level on one map.

 

Potions + rock throw = maxed out.

 

Of course, you'd still need to grind class levels, so you'd have to do them 1/map.

 

Broken.

[ramza]

If you are referring to the potential abuse of a weakness in the game's system, I can as well mention numerous similar examples:

 

do you remember some quests in BG2 or NWN in which you could get infinite XP or infinite gold? Anyone could exploit these weaknesses and max out their characters. Would you, however, qualify these games as broken? I don't think so... It is up to the player if he wants to play normally or not.

 

And just for your info, you cannot really max out a character in one map. I have already tried that for a few characters that I never used in battles. All my main characters were lv99 and the others were around lv30. I then started the rock throw-potion trick, and could easily raise them to lv60. After lv60, the amount of XP you would get for each hit with a rock was just average, meaning that you would have to throw rocks for at least 10 hours to let them reach lv99. It's not a weakness you can easily abuse of...

[Darque]

do you remember some quests in BG2 or NWN in which you could get infinite XP or infinite gold?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

But it sounds like a bug in those games.

 

In FFT it was a "feature"

[Lare Kikkeli]

do you remember some quests in BG2 or NWN in which you could get infinite XP or infinite gold?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

But it sounds like a bug in those games.

 

In FFT it was a "feature"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

uh, you so dont know what you're talking about.

[ramza]

do you remember some quests in BG2 or NWN in which you could get infinite XP or infinite gold?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

But it sounds like a bug in those games.

 

In FFT it was a "feature"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, I was sure you were going to say that. However, even though this was a "feature" of FFT, it wasn't meant to be easily exploited as I already said. The only situation in which you can get a real benefit out of it is when you want to quickly gain some levels for your low-level characters (while the rest of your party is 20 or more levels above). You cannot say that a game is broken just because of this.

[Darque]

I have to disagree.

 

I leveled all of my characters from level 1 to level 60ish pretty easily and quickly in chapter one.

 

Then just enjoyed the game to the end (and the sad and poor ending )

 

Overall it made for a quick game.

[Joseph Bulock]

I have to disagree.

 

I leveled all of my characters from level 1 to level 60ish pretty easily and quickly in chapter one.

 

Then just enjoyed the game to the end (and the sad and poor ending )

 

Overall it made for a quick game.

 

 

I still don't understand how the presence of an exploit makes a game entirely bad. I will admit that I'm having a hard time seeing your point, just because FF Tactics is my favorite game of all time, and therefore I really have to alter my perspective to see from your point of view. There are tons of exploits in Fallout and Fallout 2, but I wouldn't say they changed my appreciation of the game. In a single player game, if you need to cheat to get through it, then so be it, but then don't complain about balance. That's like complaining that you were really bored at a Nerf gun fight just because you brought a gas powered paint ball gun.

[Darque]

I still don't understand how the presence of an exploit makes a game entirely bad.

 

Actually, if you go back to my first post, I said that it was the ending that killed it for me.

 

It was the unbalanced comment that people decided to debate.

 

Of course, I probably didn't make that clear originally. I have a bad habit of that.

[ramza]

I was debating the fact that the game was broken because of that feature you mentioned. The game's job system was very well thought and very flexible. It also allowed the use of different strategies since each job had unique abilities.

I can barely believe you when you say that you reached level 60 while being in chapter 1. Even though it is feasible, it would have taken you an insane amount of time. When i used the trick you were referring to, I already was at the end of the game. Whenever one of my low-level characters hit a high-level character, you would get the double or triple of the normal XP. In that sense, the game has a weakness since you can level up pretty quickly. Other than that, it is up to the gamer's responsibility if he doesn't want to ruin his game. Blaming the game itself for allowing him to cheat wouldn't be fair (we could criticize the IE games in the same way since they allowed you to cheat by using the CLUAconsole thingie).

 

The game is one of my favorites despite the fact that it was lacking of some elements (character development, etc). I can accept any criticism about it except for any qualification of it as being broken.

[Darque]

Ramza, I understand that you love FFT, but I'm not "blaming" anything for anything.

 

To the question of what I feel is wrong with FFT, the two things are the leveling system (to a small degree) which I feel is also unbalanced and the ending (to a very large degree) which left me with a very negative impression.

 

Also, using an in game system to level is "not" cheating.

 

As for the speed of my advancement, until you've done the exact same thing, you can't really know.

 

Use that skill that gives +1 attack power and it happens even faster since you don't have to deal with the attack animations.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Ramza, I understand that you love FFT, but I'm not "blaming" anything for anything.

 

To the question of what I feel is wrong with FFT, the two things are the leveling system (to a small degree) which I feel is also unbalanced and the ending (to a very large degree) which left me with a very negative impression.

 

Also, using an in game system to level is "not" cheating.

 

As for the speed of my advancement, until you've done the exact same thing, you can't really know.

 

Use that skill that gives +1 attack power and it happens even faster since you don't have to deal with the attack animations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

thats the same as leveling up to level 7 by killing kobolds in the nashkel mines in bg1. you can't say the game is unbalanced just because you're stupid enough to spoil it for yourself.

[Darque]

Sure I can, because it's an opinion. In this case, mine.

 

And I could do the same thing farming random battles and only attacking with Throw stone.

 

And since randoms are at your level, that's hardly fighting what amounts to Kobolds.

[mkreku]

...just because FF Tactics is my favorite game of all time...

The world is DOOMED. DOOMED, I tell ya!

 

What about the classics, like the Ultima series? Wasteland? Pool of Radiance? Daggerfall?

 

Final Fantasy Tactics?! Gaah.

[Setzer]

What about the classics, like the Ultima series? Wasteland? Pool of Radiance? Daggerfall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The World is doomed if those were his all-time favorite PC games. Those games don't hold a candle to FFT.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Setzer

[TravisPennington]

Final Fantasy Tactics is an awesome game.

 

I wouldn't even call the ability to achieve max level and master every job class at the beginning of the game an exploit, either. Just because you can do it does not mean that you have to. Try going through the game without leveling up at all. It's a real challenge. Beating the Galgorand Execution Site at Level 15 as a Squire is very hard, for instance.

 

What's great about Tactics is that you level up and advance your classes so that you can conquer the story battles of the game. The monsters themselves however, level up along with you. There are obvious ways to make the game "easier", and I tend to take that path nearly every time I play the game for some reason.

 

The beginning of the game, I buy some phoenix downs and head in to sweegy woods. A phoenix down will kill the undead there. Kill everything then just leave one goblin. Accumulate over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Use potions. Heal up. Rinse repeat.

 

It's still difficult for some classes because you cannot access a large portion of the equipment for that class at that part in the game. You cannot obtain Katana for Samurai, for instances, even at Level 99, if you haven't passed a certain part of the game. You can remedy that by putting a "Use Swords" support or ability or something, but then you lose Gained JP Up and it's going to take you twice as long to level up. It isn't that easy, and it still takes a great deal of time to do it. What do you expect? It's an RPG at heart. In Fallout 2 you can go and get Power Armor at the beginning of the game with a bit of luck outdoors. From then on the majority of the game is a breeze. Does that make it a bad game? No. All the bugs and crappy towns like NCR do. (Sorry F2 guys! A lot of it was great! ).

 

FFTactics really is one of the best games out there. It's pure fun, through and through. As for FFXII...I'm off to pick that up tomorrow. It looks great.

[Pidesco]

Actually, FFT is a pretty superficial game compared to Tactics Ogre. In fact, it probably was designed specifically as a dumbed down Tactics Ogre to appeal to the bigger FF crowd.

[astr0creep]

You guys suck(figuratively)!

 

Now I want to play FFT!!!

 

 

 

I mean

[Volourn]

DOWN WITH FFT! what a crappy game, and now my precious FF12 thread has been polluted!

[astr0creep]

Sorry Volo.

 

I haven't had time to "clean" yet.

 

Been playing too much FF12. :joy:

 

 

My wife does not approve...

[Darque]

Actually, FFT is a pretty superficial game compared to Tactics Ogre. In fact, it probably was designed specifically as a dumbed down Tactics Ogre to appeal to the bigger FF crowd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's kinda what I thought about it as well.

[Calax]

Da thoughts de Calax on FF12:

 

Beautiful game... I really can't say more about that... it's just jaw dropping about the sheer eye candy in this sucker (the hair seems to be permanently gelled on all the characters tho.)

 

The plot is... unique. Country falls and everybody blames another country which is trying to just fight a war with it's main rival (basically the world politcal map has two giants and a bunch of little guys in the middle... "your" nation state is one of the little guys whos trying to get by but gets eaten up militarily by one of the bigger states.) It should be noted that Ivalice is the same world as FFXI. So humans are "humes" and there are also Viera (rabbit people).

 

I'm farther than either volo or oerwende were. But I'm still not very far. One of the nice things about the new system is that anyone can use ANY weapon. It's not like all the previous ones where you run around find a shop in a town that sells the best weapon and buy the three best for your primary team. It's actually really easy to get your licensing board set up, you get points so fast that you can have at least half the board opened by level 10.

 

One of the interesting things is that there isn't a world map. At least not in the manner that Mk thinks of it from it's past iterations. Instead it's like FFX was initially in that you travel the world by moving thought wild areas where you battle party is out. you can teleport between certain save points (usually one at each POI) but as it stands at about 15 hours I have yet to actually hit a world map.

 

and Moogles got a small revamp... a very nice revamp.

[Haitoku]

Actually, FFT is a pretty superficial game compared to Tactics Ogre. In fact, it probably was designed specifically as a dumbed down Tactics Ogre to appeal to the bigger FF crowd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This man speaks the truth.

I did like FFT though.

 

 

...

 

Anyways, I think I'm further then most people around here...

Since I can't play NWN2

 

 

The Gambit system is interesting. Basically, the better Gambit you setup, the less you actually have to do in battle. I'm conflicted... Is this a good thing? All my characters have some basic commands... Heal when HP is low, remove major status effects, raise fallen allies. I also gave some characters very specific task such as using heavy elemental spells against a monster's weakness or crippling monsters with enfeebling magic. The only thing I ever have to really do is switch out characters/equipment and start a Mist chain every once in awhile...

 

I'm about 30 hours into the game... Initially, my thoughts about the story were very much like Calax's... Now however, it's growing rather absurd I'm afraid.

 

The game is still very fun though. One thing this game definitely got down right is exploration. Huge areas to explore, with a lot of treasure to discover.

[Pidesco]

Don't get me wrong, I though FFT was fun, just not in the same league as Tactics Ogre. Actually, what I really love is Ogre Battle, but let's stop with the off-topic.

 

I haven't played FFXII. I wish I could, though.