Judge Hades Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 DM's tinker with the rules all the time if the game has different rules interpretations then its not really that different. Thats good for homebrew campaigns, but not in an "official" product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Thats good for homebrew campaigns, but not in an "official" product. Also agreed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 *bets money on Hades and Darque* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Bzzzt... and Shadowpaladin drops the ball once more... To "make your own" you have to... well... make your own. What they have is a watered down version of the d20 ruleset... that's hardly making your own rules. Is it basketball season or something? Not true you can make your own rules based on another established rules system I know this for a fact because I've done it many times. Now selling that rules system is a whole different ball game but as long is its for personal use its not like anyone is going to know anyway. In Biowares case as long as they get the OK from Lucas Arts or whoever else then they can do they exact same thing. This idea that you and others have that the rules must adhere to the letter is just that. There is no basis for it beyond your own conception. In the case of Bioware the took the D20 system and they modified. If you consider it watered down thats entirely your perogative. But in any case its Biowares rules system and they created it specifically to use with KOTOR. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Shadow Paladin, you are so wrong that it is downright pathetic that you don't see it. Bethesda made their own rules with Morrowind. Bioware used the d20 System instead of making their own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Who give a flying horseshoe. KOTOR was a betetr game than MW. Period. That's all that matters. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakron Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Shadow Paladin, you are so wrong that it is downright pathetic that you don't see it. Bethesda made their own rules with Morrowind. Bioware used the d20 System instead of making their own rules. I agree, Squaresoft have pretty much being using a basic combat system in all their Final Fantasy titles. What Shadow Paladin appears to keep missing is a RPG goes under a rule system and if BioWare wanted to make a action game they could, heck DX was a FPS/rpg hybrid that used outdated tech and its a reference in computer games. But what happened was that LucasArts ask then to make a RPG and SWKotOR is a very bad implemented d20 system and that is what I have problem with, if BioWare had a bad implemented d6 system I would still have a problem with it since I am not playing "system favorite" here (Shadow Paladin on the other hand ...) as I can use any system as long is logical and funtional with SWKotOR is neither much logical or funtional, its a half baked system rush down the door to meet release date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 SWKotOR is neither much logical or funtional, its a half baked system rush down the door to meet release date. Ever notice that arguments tend to drive people to extreme viewpoints? Apparently all the people who played and enjoyed KOTOR prefer a game that lacks logic and does not function. Seriously, Logic? Where is the logic in lightsabers and Jedi knights? Not function? It was one of the least buggy games I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Apparently all the people who played and enjoyed KOTOR prefer a game that lacks logic and does not function. *waves* (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I'm a happy ignorant. Despite some minor flaws, none of them rules related, I played the game twice and had tons of fun. But then, I've never opened a d20 rulebook in my life. B) “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 *pokes Gorth* Hey now. For the record I played KotOR first, then picked up the d20 game for reference. KotOR was and still is one of my all time favorite games... but there's so much within the d20 pnp game it's based off of that could have been used to make the game even better than what it was..... ...but KotOR is still an awesome game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolo Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Who give a flying horseshoe. KOTOR was a betetr game than MW. Period. That's all that matters. No Morrowind was better. Period. Saying one is better than the other is pointless because they are subjective opinions. Besides, they are very different games and I don't think they can be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakron Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Apparently all the people who played and enjoyed KOTOR prefer a game that lacks logic and does not function. What on Earth are you talking about? I said the ruleset system is not very logical and does not work too well, the fact every single "uber jedi build" resolves are starting as a scout says a lot. Also the game challanges the player is Taris, Dantooine and the first Star Map and after it the game only ofers some key challanges and most encounters are easy and dont even need player input. Oh I ljust love the mob mentality ... Diablo is considered a running joke in RPG circles because its a actionCRPG despite being one of the most boring games I had the chance to play (and the the second game that managed to hurt why wrist with playing, first one was "Wings of Glory" that really had a bad control system) and you can bet when Diablo 3 comes out it will be record sales. Seriously, Logic? Where is the logic in lightsabers and Jedi knights? Not function? It was one of the least buggy games I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Bioware Q&A is ocasionally quite bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Not too many companies don't have their share of Qa problems. difference is when BIo QA screws up; you'll be sure to have another patch to fix said problem and usually at a reasonable time. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neriana Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 You either follow the rules of the game or the game means nothing. Yep. And the most important rule is RULE ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolo Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Why? So it can explain why the game developers took the easy or lazy way out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Neriana, yes, Rule Zero applies but only in PnP, not on the computer. In PnP players can pick and choose what rules apply and what rules don't, but on the computer the player HAS NO CHOICE. Developers need to follow the rules of the game as closely as possible because they are representing the product. If they don't you might as well tell them that is okay for them to put "Dungeons and Dragons" as a label but have nothing of the rules in the game WHICH IS STUPID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 TOEE is a great example... remove the incredible amount of bugs and the rather uninspiring story... and what you have is a fantastic translation of pnp to PCrpg. More developers should follow this example... well... and make sure to not use Atari as a publisher.. and make sure there's not so many bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neriana Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 If rules cause problems in the story, or problems with game balance, or if they make the game less fun, they should be thrown out. They're a template for creating something, not holy writ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Shadow Paladin, you are so wrong that it is downright pathetic that you don't see it. Bethesda made their own rules with Morrowind. Bioware used the d20 System instead of making their own rules. No they adapted the d20 system no more no less. Easy example for you. Take minature A Take minature B Glue A's head onto B and B's head onto A. You now have two original creations. Bioware took what they wanted from the D20 system then added what they wanted themselves. Result the KOTOR rules are unique to that particular game. Now whether you agree or not is totally irrelevent. It dosnt change what they did. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I agree, Squaresoft have pretty much being using a basic combat system in all their Final Fantasy titles. What Shadow Paladin appears to keep missing is a RPG goes under a rule system and if BioWare wanted to make a action game they could, heck DX was a FPS/rpg hybrid that used outdated tech and its a reference in computer games. But what happened was that LucasArts ask then to make a RPG and SWKotOR is a very bad implemented d20 system and that is what I have problem with, if BioWare had a bad implemented d6 system I would still have a problem with it since I am not playing "system favorite" here (Shadow Paladin on the other hand ...) as I can use any system as long is logical and funtional with SWKotOR is neither much logical or funtional, its a half baked system rush down the door to meet release date. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and 1000 times wrong. V - Job System VI - Esper System VII - Materia System VIII - Junction System XI - Skills system X - Sphere Grid X-2 - Job System (dress sphere) So basically the system changed every single game from V upwards. X and X-2 even though they share the same world use a totally different rules system. Which kind of shoots your theory out of the water given the success of the FF franchise dosnt it.If there is any lesson to be learned here its dont paint your franchise into a corner that it cant escape from. We saw that with FO. Perhaps Bioware designed it that way because thats the way they wanted it. I dont suppose that occured to you did it ? And as I said before I'm not missing anything. I JUST DONT CARE AS LONG AS THE GAME PLAYS WELL. Was that clear enough for you ? I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolo Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 If rules cause problems in the story, or problems with game balance, or if they make the game less fun, they should be thrown out. They're a template for creating something, not holy writ. If adapted properly, neither would be a problem caused by the rules. The problem is BioWare taking a Turn Based system and trying to make it work in a Real Time game. They just don't translate well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Wrong. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolo Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 No, I am never wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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