Woman gets booted from sunday school

[Pidesco]

I'm not saying just specifically on this issue, I mean generally. Do you think God actually offed all first born children of the Egiptians, or that Moses actually parted the Red Sea, or that women are responsible for the fall of men?

 

Which christian denomination do you belong to, by the way?

[Fenghuang]

I'm late to the game, but I just wanted to point out that Job, the oldest book in the Bible; describes a round earth in Chapter 26.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that you can make a pretty good argument using Blank's logic that homosexuality is no longer a sin; I mean, since the disciples writing the early Christian churches were the only ones in the NT to condemn it.  Jesus never said a word, one way or the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Therefore, I should focus more on evangalizing to homosexuals as opposed to classifying their mindsets as sinful.

 

Jesus also wasn't homosexual though. In my eyes, Jesus has always been everything good, embodied in a human form. So also using my previous logic, homosexuality at best is not good. That is not to say that anything new after Jesus is wrong, but homosexuality was during Jesus' time, and he didn't practice it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You didn't actually think about this argument did you? There is no documented sexuality for Jesus at all. If anything, by this logic, Jesus was aesexual, and any sex at all is a sin. Therefore if you're not completely celibate like Jesus, inside or outside of marriage, you're a sinner. On the other hand there's other parts of the Bible that say sex between a man and a woman is a wonderful thing. Which one is it Blank?

 

Make your arguments more airtight next time plzthx.

[Blank]

You didn't actually think about this argument did you?  There is no documented sexuality for Jesus at all.  If anything, by this logic, Jesus was aesexual, and any sex at all is a sin.  Therefore if you're not completely celibate like Jesus, inside or outside of marriage, you're a sinner.  On the other hand there's other parts of the Bible that say sex between a man and a woman is a wonderful thing.  Which one is it Blank? 

 

Make your arguments more airtight next time plzthx.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, that argument is flawed in those areas. I have to recant that earlier statement that whatever Jesus wasn't is not good. I'm just trying to logically think through my beliefs and represent them to you guys. If I mess up, it is good that you tell me. Thanks. I need to think more now.

[Blank]

I'm not saying just specifically on this issue, I mean generally. Do you think God actually offed all first born children of the Egiptians, or that Moses actually parted the Red Sea, or that women are responsible for the fall of men?

 

Which christian denomination do you belong to, by the way?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do think God offed the first-born children of the Egyptians. I do think that Moses actually parted the Red Sea. I do not think that women are responsible for the fall of humanity. If you read the passage of the fall, there is a key part of a verse that people should notice: (Genesis 3:6)- "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."

 

So, it looks like he was there with her during that time, and that he chose to eat it too. Even if he was away, he doesn't ask about it, which means he is being ignorant of the only command from God that he received. And even if I thought it was Eve's fault (which I don't), then it would be obviously flawed to blame it on all women other than Eve (as if each woman individually caused the fall of man).

 

As for denomination, I go to an "Evangelical Conservative Baptist" church. It is really irrelevant, as my beliefs (as well as my church's) are primarily based on the bible.

 

Ah, I just remembered your (probable) reason for asking if I believe God offed those kids. The reason might be so that you can say something like, "I don't want to believe in a God that kills little innocent children based on choices their parents make." To this I will respond: I can't change your beliefs. However, I can give you reasons as to why I still believe in this God. Firstly, He is sovreign, meaning he's the ruler of everything, so I believe that when I die, I go to him and my fate is at his fingertips. I also believe that my God is fair, and just, and good. So perhaps God knew what those kids would do if they had lived a whole life, and perhaps he found that they were as guilty as their fathers in it. I don't know what He did about those kids. Do those kids' lives mean anything to you anyway? Are you going to go out and proclaim that the Hebrew God is evil after this because he killed some kids that you think of every blue moon when you talk about religion? I doubt you will. I think that their lives, to you, are simply a part of your intellectual argument against God.

If I'm wrong, I apologize for making suppositions, and I would like to know your actual reasons for asking.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Blank

[Lucius]

Also, it has its precedence in ancient Athens when young men would parade around town naked as a coming of age event and old men would leer at their beauteous body.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I get older, I'm hoping to see this event reinstated.

[Xard]

Many american christians seems to be little bit... weird. Or should I say more fundamentalistic than their european counterparts

Edited August 22, 2006 by Xard

[Morgoth]

Amen.

[Krookie]

Being a wierd Christian in America is better then being a dead one in a Muslim ruled-Middle East.

[Morgoth]

Amen.

[Tigranes]

Blank: Perhaps in an debate-centric perspective it is valid to question the other person's motives in asking why he brought the baby-killing issue up; but when focusing on thinking about your particular belief system (which, to be fair, is completely your business), the said comment does not nullify its possible significance. The way I read your comments is thus - that presupposing God is just and fair, his actions regarding these children must have been just and fair; and for reasons we cannot comprehend, God has, as always, done well. I am not being sarcastic (I am Christian, I'm not having a go), by the way. After all, a key part of faith is to adopt God's standards to one's own life, not to judge God by one's previous standards.

 

Of course, questions arise. Theoretically, to accept and believe a God that we know has done acts such as order Abraham (I think) to sacrifice his own son (though he stopped them at the end), is to say that if God would command me/you to do such a thing, then I/you would be prepared to do so. Can you say that if God had commanded you to lay to the sword a member of your family, and you were absolutely convinced this message was true, would you? In all likelihood, this is a completely hypothetical argument and the issue would never surface - but this perhaps is the reason I am hesitant to take any part of the Bible as literary and not symbolic; that its stories should be adopted as direct parallels and not general guidelines for morality would drive me into a few awkward situations indeed.

 

Contextual justification is always possible; just as Paul's comments about women can be contextualised and therefore eliminated from a general Christian code of conduct, so could potentially God's order for Abraham to sacrifice his child, etc, etc. The fact is that contextual justification can, like statistics, be used for anything. It is a risk we run whenever we depart from God's exact (translated) words and use our own logical reasoning to interpret the words - but then, we have long since even remotely followed many of the Bible's orders literally (mainly what we now consider to be contextual, contemporary laws for those specific people and churches).

 

Yeah, it's a tangle and I always drive myself into a corner here. But point being; to, for example, accept the presupposition of God's justice in his baby-killing is to say one is prepared to do the same when commanded by God. It is much easier to promise and relinquish one's own life than that of others.

[Judge Hades]

I don't see how human sexuality can be seen as a sin. It is basic human physiology. Having intimate relations with one that you love cannot be evil. Period.

[Dark_Raven]

Many christians seems to be little bit... weird.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Among many, many things.

[Judge Hades]

I see homosexuals as sinners, but I won't stop them. I will try to show them Jesus, just like I would any other non-believer, and I would try to persuade them to change their way, based on the idea that God is glorified through the keeping of his law, which is one thing that separates Christians from the rest of the world (the other is the spreading of the salvation of Christ from our sins, our sins being the absence of adherence to the law).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Trying to change a person's sexual orientation is like trying to change the color of a person's blood.

[Hurlshort]

I agree with Hades on the sexual orientation part.

 

I also just wanted to say that History as a classroom subject is actually called Social Science until High School (at least in CA.) This is because the real classroom goal is to present historical information and have students think critically, and then apply that critical thinking to today's world. But I'll be honest, it's the teachers responsibility to get outside of the textbook, and many don't have the necessary skills to do so. All I can do is incorporate it in my own classroom and harp on this in professional development gatherings.

[Judge Hades]

I just had a very odd thought.

 

If Jesus is God and God made Mary pregnant out of wedlock (we won't look) that would make him his own father, but since we are all God's children (according to Christians) it seems God is into incest and inbreeding.

 

I think I need some sleep.

[Dark Moth]

As usual, your logic simply astounds me, Hades.

 

You didn't actually think about this argument did you?  There is no documented sexuality for Jesus at all.  If anything, by this logic, Jesus was aesexual, and any sex at all is a sin.  Therefore if you're not completely celibate like Jesus, inside or outside of marriage, you're a sinner.  On the other hand there's other parts of the Bible that say sex between a man and a woman is a wonderful thing.  Which one is it Blank? 

 

Make your arguments more airtight next time plzthx.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since when was sex a sin? Sex can't be a sin, it's part of human nature. The only time the Bible relates to sex actually being a sin is when it's done out of marriage, or if it's with the same gender.

[Lucius]

Oh screw the Bible already... or well, not literally. )

[kirottu]

Since when was sex a sin?  Sex can't be a sin, it's part of human nature.  The only time the Bible relates to sex actually being a sin is when it's done out of marriage, or if it's with the same gender.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I always thought that christianity thinks sex is a sin, but reproducing isn

[Pidesco]

As for denomination, I go to an "Evangelical Conservative Baptist" church. It is really irrelevant, as my beliefs (as well as my church's) are primarily based on the bible.

 

Ok, just to make things clear this means you believe in the bible literally, and as such think the Sun goes around our planet and not the other way around, that the world was created some 6000 years ago, people used to live several hundred years, and the value of pi is, exactly, 3.

 

Also, you believe that everyone who isn't an Evangelical Conservative Baptist, will die a ghastly and fiery death in the pits of Hell, because they are not a part of the elect.

 

 

Ah, I just remembered your (probable) reason for asking if I believe God offed those kids. The reason might be so that you can say something like, "I don't want to believe in a God that kills little innocent children based on choices their parents make." To this I will respond: I can't change your beliefs. However, I can give you reasons as to why I still believe in this God. Firstly, He is sovreign, meaning he's the ruler of everything, so I believe that when I die, I go to him and my fate is at his fingertips. I also believe that my God is fair, and just, and good. So perhaps God knew what those kids would do if they had lived a whole life, and perhaps he found that they were as guilty as their fathers in it. I don't know what He did about those kids. Do those kids' lives mean anything to you anyway? Are you going to go out and proclaim that the Hebrew God is evil after this because he killed some kids that you think of every blue moon when you talk about religion? I doubt you will. I think that their lives, to you, are simply a part of your intellectual argument against God.

If I'm wrong, I apologize for making suppositions, and I would like to know your actual reasons for asking.

 

First I'd like to say that I believe there is a God, and that such a being must be amoral.

 

Now, the reason I asked you about God killing those kids is because those actions of God, if true, would go against his own ethics as taught by Jesus Christ on a few occasions, most especially during the sermon of the mount. And of course, don't forget that if you believe in the concept of the Holy Trinity, the Son and the Father are fundamentally the same being. Now, the only way that I can see for you to get out of this conundrum is to say that God preaches a "do what I say, don't do what I do" kind of ethic, which I trust, you don't agree with at all.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Pidesco

[Pidesco]

Since when was sex a sin?  Sex can't be a sin, it's part of human nature.  The only time the Bible relates to sex actually being a sin is when it's done out of marriage, or if it's with the same gender.

 

I always thought that christianity thinks sex is a sin, but reproducing isn

[Dark Moth]

Since when was sex a sin?  Sex can't be a sin, it's part of human nature.  The only time the Bible relates to sex actually being a sin is when it's done out of marriage, or if it's with the same gender.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I always thought that christianity thinks sex is a sin, but reproducing isn

[kirottu]

It

[Dark Moth]

How many religions? Give an example. The Christian religion comes from the Bible, which is the highest authority. The way it's practiced is up to those who intepret it. Most denominations of Christianity do not say that sex or enjoying sex is a sin.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Pidesco]

Since when was sex a sin?  Sex can't be a sin, it's part of human nature.  The only time the Bible relates to sex actually being a sin is when it's done out of marriage, or if it's with the same gender.

 

I always thought that christianity thinks sex is a sin, but reproducing isn

[Dark Moth]

Don't forget the Roman Catholic Church used to sell indulgences. It's always possible to twist and distort things over time. Don't just look at how some people practice it, that's not good enough. Look at the source from which they derive their beliefs. Same goes with any religion.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Dark Moth