Do you look down on people who...

[Fenghuang]

Wrong.  The point of war is to bring the other country into utter submission to yours by any means neccessary.  It's larger than the individual level.  Losses are acceptable if they mean a larger success elsewhere.  Atrocities sometimes must be commited in the name of stemming larger ones down the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you are saying that one of the greatest genrals of US history, Patton, is wrong. Interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh, I calls them as I see them. To win a war fought on many fronts sometimes requires sending some of your men to die and knowing it. Sure it'd be nice if you could always send them into low risk conflicts you knew they'd come out of, but sometimes there's suicide missions that need doing.

[metadigital]

Wrong.  The point of war is to bring the other country into utter submission to yours by any means neccessary.  It's larger than the individual level.  Losses are acceptable if they mean a larger success elsewhere.  Atrocities sometimes must be commited in the name of stemming larger ones down the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you are saying that one of the greatest genrals of US history, Patton, is wrong. Interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're taking a direct quote from Patton's address to his troops (hint: individuals fighting the conflict) and applying them to countries. Hmmm, I wonder why that doesn't make sense ...?

[Judge Hades]

I think that war is an archaic form of trying to resolve differences. Of course some people try to be as different as possible so they have an excuse to go kill people. Difference in religious practice has often been used as a convenient excuse to kill people. If people just leave each other alone and minded their own affairs, and not be greedy SOBs when they do deal with others the world would be better off.

 

Then again maybe it would be better if we just kill each other in one massive act of genocide and become extinct.

 

Today we have the means to resolve nearly all issues without violence if we were rational beings but as a species we like to kill things, to have blood on our hands, to decide who lives and who dies. Deep down we all want to be godlike.

Edited May 7, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Baley]

I think that quote is merely attributed to Patton, and if he did indeed recite it, it was to a bunch of unsophisticated grunts. Were you expecting philosophical enunciations of the utmost verbosity?

 

The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living. - Omar Bradley

 

- Damn you Meta!

Edited May 7, 2006 by Baley

[Judge Hades]

No.

[metadigital]

Nice quotation from Bradley, though, Baley.

[Judge Hades]

I liked it.

[Lucius]

Dude, I want to die for a real purpose and not for something I don't believe in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But you're quite happy for someone else to die instead.

Colonel Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, [Lonewolf16]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [strategic miscalculations and collateral damage], and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [the collateral damage e.g. Hiroshima], while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's with this condescending (I like this word) tone? If he doesn't want to be a part of the military due to conflicting opinions then that is his right. I wouldn't want to go fight for Bush and Co. in Iraq either. Now if some nation or group was to attack 'my' country or one of our allies on their soil, then it would be a different matter entirely.

[Baley]

I think that war is an archaic form of trying to resolve differences. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is as current today as it has ever been, if war is archaic than so is peace, just two sides of the same coin, the conflict and the resolution. The conflict brings progress, the resolution maintains it.

 

 

 

 

Of course some people try to be as different as possible so they have an excuse to go kill people.  Difference in religious practice has often been used as a convenient excuse to kill people.  If people just leave each other alone and minded their own affairs, and not be greedy SOBs when they do deal with others the world would be better off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Killing other humans is the outcome not the cause, it's easier to murder a lunatic than to reshape his entire perspective. Please don't bring religion into this, it's the madman's most valuable pretext, often but a simple footnote in one's bellicose beliefs, the religious are simply used to fulfill someone's grand plans, and if those plans consist of killing millions of heretics it is not just because the head Butcher wants to see blood, no, what he wants is power, and to gain power he must first get rid of the competition, killing here is simply an easy way of attaining one's goals.

 

Then again maybe it would be better if we just kill each other in one massive act of genocide and become extinct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Better for whom?

 

Today we have the means to resolve nearly all issues without violence if we were rational beings but as a species we like to kill things, to have blood on our hands, to decide who lives and who dies.  Deep down we all want to be godlike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, violence is part of the natural world, rationality needs violence because violence is wholly rational. It is only a way of getting things done.

 

 

I don't want to be godlike.

Edited May 7, 2006 by Baley

[metadigital]

What's with this condescending (I like this word) tone? If he doesn't want to be a part of the military due to conflicting opinions then that is his right. I wouldn't want to go fight for Bush and Co. in Iraq either. Now if some nation or group was to attack 'my' country or one of our allies on their soil, then it would be a different matter entirely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not condescending (I can tell that is your New Favourite Word), simply using laconic humour to point out the hypocrisy latent in his post.

[Lucius]

Laconic is beyond my mere english comprehension skills I'm afraid. :D

[metadigital]

n adjective using very few words; terse.

 

DERIVATIVES

laconically adverb

laconicism noun

laconism noun

 

ORIGIN

C16 (in the sense 'Laconian'): via Latin from Greek Lakonikos, from Lakon 'Laconia, Sparta', the Spartans being known for their terse speech.

[alanschu]

Wrong.  The point of war is to bring the other country into utter submission to yours by any means neccessary.  It's larger than the individual level.  Losses are acceptable if they mean a larger success elsewhere.  Atrocities sometimes must be commited in the name of stemming larger ones down the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you are saying that one of the greatest genrals of US history, Patton, is wrong. Interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't think that's what Eru was saying at all.

Edited May 7, 2006 by alanschu

[Surreptishus]

hey guys... remember when Eddo used to have that ex marine sig? Well I think its because he was discharged before training ended. I remember reading it in one of his posts here. I just thought that was funny.

[Judge Hades]

One of my friends whined his way out of the Marines.

[LoneWolf16]

I too am quite happy for someone else to die in my place. I don't think Lovewolf claimed to be altruism personified. I'd say it's quite normal for a human being to put self-preservation before say duty or this new kind of follow your enlightened leaders patriotism. I'm pretty sure that he just wants to die by his own volition, be that as a 90 year old man in ****-stained bedsheets or a 25 year old kid in a war he does believe in against foes he does wish to see dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(Not exactly, but...) Bingo #1

 

What's with this condescending (I like this word) tone? If he doesn't want to be a part of the military due to conflicting opinions then that is his right. I wouldn't want to go fight for Bush and Co. in Iraq either. Now if some nation or group was to attack 'my' country or one of our allies on their soil, then it would be a different matter entirely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bingo #2

 

Not condescending (I can tell that is your New Favourite Word), simply using laconic humour to point out the hypocrisy latent in his post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How am I being hypocritical? If I want to avoid death for what I deem to be a pointless war, why am I the bad guy when somebody else decides they want to go fight in my place? Good on them. They see a reason, so let them fight for it.

 

Were it something I believed in, a war with actual meaning behind it, or those I cared for were threatened, I'd be on the front lines in a heart beat.

 

Truly sorry I'd rather not throw my life away for some jackass in a suit and tie with about as much sense as a rabid chimp, and the looks of one too...thought I have to admit, creative use of Nicholson's famous speech.

 

Oh, and @Numbers - Note the word "want". Indicates a preference, right? If I had my way, I'd die at middle age, saving a baby from a house fire. Or at least before all that...*shudder* I'd rather die before then.

[Hassat Hunter]

A big for the Lovewolf...

[Krookie]

If I understand the question, then yes. If you are asking if I look down on poeple who avoid the draft purposly (like moving to Canada from the US or something) then yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, if I were to be drafted, but it was a war like the current Iraq war...and I left for Canada on "business", I'd be looked down on?

 

Dude, I want to die for a real purpose and not for something I don't believe in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Over half the soilders in Iraq don't think they should be there but that doesn't mean that they're going to leave. If you want to cry like a little bitch and run to Canada go ahead, but people will look down on you.

[Llyranor]

Drafted != voluntarily enlisted

[LoneWolf16]

[Nick_i_am]

Has the US done any drafting since Vietnam?

[Eddo36]

All male 18 years old in the US gotta sign up for selective service.

[213374U]

Oh, and @Numbers - Note the word "want". Indicates a preference, right? If I had my way, I'd die at middle age, saving a baby from a house fire. Or at least before all that...*shudder* I'd rather die before then.

Are you considering a future in firefighting? If not, that's hypocritical of you to say.

 

I have no problem with people saying there's absolutely nothing in the world that they find worth dying for, mind you. As a matter of fact, I'm one of them, and I'm joining the military after summer. I do find it funny when people delude themselves, though.

[Krookie]

Has the US done any drafting since Vietnam?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, but Bush mentioned re-enstating it.

[LoneWolf16]

Oh, and @Numbers - Note the word "want". Indicates a preference, right? If I had my way, I'd die at middle age, saving a baby from a house fire. Or at least before all that...*shudder* I'd rather die before then.

Are you considering a future in firefighting? If not, that's hypocritical of you to say.

 

I have no problem with people saying there's absolutely nothing in the world that they find worth dying for, mind you. As a matter of fact, I'm one of them, and I'm joining the military after summer. I do find it funny when people delude themselves, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to be a firefighter to run into a burning building when a woman's screaming about her baby still being inside? Don't need a uniform for that. You do, however, need a degree in idiocy.

 

And there's a lot I'd die for, just not this particular thing.