BREAKING NEWS: BETHESDA TELLS ESRB TO STICK IT!

[Jumjalum]

However, I think it's pretty careless for Bethesda to have let those base skin textures stay in.  The argument may go, "But a person can't normally see those without a third party hack."  Great, then don't make the textures anatomically correct to begin with.  I don't understand how someone can know what happened with GTA:SA and think that the "can't be revealed without a third party hack" argument flies.  Clearly it doesn't -- whether you agree with it or not -- so don't do it.  Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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Does that mean no boobies in NWN2?

[LoneWolf16]

No, there'll be boobies. They will just be hidden better.

[Kasoroth]

C'mon, reading reviews in magazines?  That's a bit too much pressure to place on  parents.  Toys have age ratings, movies, etc.  The ESRB system is good, otherwise you'd have a bunch of 10 year-olds ending up with GTA and that's not something small children need to have access to.

 

Woth point out that before the rating system, politicians and lawyers were going crazy cracking down on games with even a hint of mature content and they're starting to look for more opportunities now. 

 

"There is blood in your wicked mortal combat game!!! YOU DEVIANTS ARE CORRUPTING CHILDREN!" 

 

No ratings system = no mature games.

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I don't really have a problem with the ESRB rating games so parents can more easily inform themselves, but if helping parents protect their children from violent or sexual content was really the purpose of ESRB ratings, then content that required mods to unlock should not be included in the rating. If the kid is able to download the mod to unlock the objectionable content, he could just as easily download real porn. The truth is that it's easier to find pornographic pictures than it is to find the nude mod for Oblivion, so whether or not the files existed on the disc makes no measurable difference in a child's ability to view digital images of breasts. The "protecting the children" argument for including unused disc contents in the rating just doesn't hold up.

 

Likewise, any argument that the rating's purpose is also to inform adults of any contents that might offend their own sensibilities also fails for the same reason. Enabling the content requires an intentional effort by the player. Players who are offended by this type of content can simply not download and install such mods.

 

So if the purposes of the ratings are to help parents protect their children from objectionable content and to protect adult players from accidentally viewing objectionable content, these purposes could be served just as well by considering only the content that is acessible in the game as it was released. Rating the game based on unused contents on the disc serves no useful purpose and actually would make the rating less accurately reflect the contents of the game as it was released.

 

If someone can propose some reason why rating the unused material on the disc is actually beneficial to society in some way, I'll listen, but I have never seen any value to that policy of the ESRB.

 

- Kasoroth

[Hekate]

I don't really have a problem with the ESRB rating games so parents can more easily inform themselves, but if helping parents protect their children from violent or sexual content was really the purpose of ESRB ratings, then content that required mods to unlock should not be included in the rating.  If the kid is able to download the mod to unlock the objectionable content, he could just as easily download real porn.  The truth is that it's easier to find pornographic pictures than it is to find the nude mod for Oblivion, so whether or not the files existed on the disc makes no measurable difference in a child's ability to view digital images of breasts.  The "protecting the children" argument for including unused disc contents in the rating just doesn't hold up.

 

Likewise, any argument that the rating's purpose is also to inform adults of any contents that might offend their own sensibilities also fails for the same reason.  Enabling the content requires an intentional effort by the player.  Players who are offended by this type of content can simply not download and install such mods.

 

So if the purposes of the ratings are to help parents protect their children from objectionable content and to protect adult players from accidentally viewing objectionable content, these purposes could be served just as well by considering only the content that is acessible in the game as it was released.  Rating the game based on unused contents on  the disc serves no useful purpose and actually would make the rating less accurately reflect the contents of the game as it was released.

 

If someone can propose some reason why rating the unused material on the disc is actually beneficial to society in some way, I'll listen, but I have never seen any value to that policy of the ESRB.

 

- Kasoroth

 

That is exactly right. Rating content that isn't accessable through regular means oversteps the bounds of the ESRB. Regulatory boards such as these should stick to their mandates, else things get messy and they lose sight of what their purpose is, which opens a whole new can of worms with regards to what comes next. A shift from content rating to dictating content would not be unfathomable were these inclinations allowed to continue.

Edited May 5, 2006 by Hekate

[Blank]

Sawyer said it best I believe.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyway, it would dissappoint me if the ESRB was eradicated, since I wouldn't know as much about the junk I was buying. As a God-fearing person, I try not to subject myself to material that I believe God would deem inappropriate, such as games with nude women in them.

 

The ESRB is far from dictating content, they are serving a purpose which many people feel is necessary. Stores don't want to sell Adult-rated games, so the ESRB is crucial there.

 

Nobody is stopping people from making adult-rated games, but nobody will buy them if they know what is in them, hence the reason they aren't more prevalent.

Edited May 5, 2006 by Blank

[StillLife]

...then content that required mods to unlock should not be included in the rating.  If the kid is able to download the mod to unlock the objectionable content, he could just as easily download real porn.  The truth is that it's easier to find pornographic pictures than it is to find the nude mod for Oblivion, so whether or not the files existed on the disc makes no measurable difference in a child's ability to view digital images of breasts.  The "protecting the children" argument for including unused disc contents in the rating just doesn't hold up.

 

Good point, I don't disagree really. I was more or less pointing out why the exsistence of the ESRB is good. Lately they've been struggling to prove their system works, ever since the Hot Coffee incident and before government intervention takes place.

 

Sawyer did make a good point in that it's already proven politicians and the like will freak out over even hidden content that requires a mod, so though I think it's going overboard, I can't really blame the folks at the ESRB for getting pro-active. Rather than blaming them, it's really the crotchety old folks who don't understand that video games aren't just for children, making a fuss. I'm pretty sure the ESRB is actually run by industry insiders - better them than anyone else.

Edited May 5, 2006 by StillLife

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's too big a loophole for the ESRB to not be involved.

 

If they were to start rating actual mods, ie creations of third parties (and not just things that unlock created content) at that point I would say they are overstepping their bounds.

 

But actually allowing people to put anything they want on the disk as long as you need to unlock it. That's not something I want to see. A topless mod is mild compared to some of the things that could find their way onto disks to be hidden for later unlocking.

Edited May 5, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

Sawyer said it best I believe.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyway, it would dissappoint me if the ESRB was eradicated, since I wouldn't know as much about the junk I was buying. As a God-fearing person, I try not to subject myself to material that I believe God would deem inappropriate, such as games with nude women in them.

 

I hope this is sarcasm here. I realy do.

[Nick_i_am]

He PnPs, so god already hates him anyway.

[Judge Hades]

A god fearing gamer is just scary. I make my own save rolls. I don't let Jesus touch my dice.

[Dark_Raven]

A god fearing gamer is just scary.  I make my own save rolls.  I don't let Jesus touch my dice.

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But jesus might have some awesome saves.

[Judge Hades]

Hey, its my character I do the rolling. Just because his character gets himself kiled doesn't mean he gets mine. He did get true resseruction casted on him anyway so he just needs to back off.

Edited May 5, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Darque]

Sawyer said it best I believe.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyway, it would dissappoint me if the ESRB was eradicated, since I wouldn't know as much about the junk I was buying. As a God-fearing person, I try not to subject myself to material that I believe God would deem inappropriate, such as games with nude women in them.

 

The ESRB is far from dictating content, they are serving a purpose which many people feel is necessary. Stores don't want to sell Adult-rated games, so the ESRB is crucial there.

 

Nobody is stopping people from making adult-rated games, but nobody will buy them if they know what is in them, hence the reason they aren't more prevalent.

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[kirottu]

Nobody is stopping people from making adult-rated games, but nobody will buy them if they know what is in them, hence the reason they aren't more prevalent.

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Yeah, it

[alanschu]

I have a feeling that, even if every retailer stocked games with AO ratings, they still wouldn't be the best selling games out there.

[Judge Hades]

They can't be AO for AO sake. Now if we can get a game that has mature adult content presented with a nice long CRPG then I am sure it would sell, even if it is AO. Mindless shaking of boobies, unrealistic gore and blood effects, and toilet humor will not sell a game.

 

*thinks about it for a moment*

 

Then again...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well AO looks like what our 18-R is. Those can only be purchased in certain special shops which would immediately restrict the audience.

[Judge Hades]

Lets take New Reno from Fallout 2. If they made a area like that in a game that has realistic graphics like Half Life 2 or Oblivion, and didn't bloack out the screen during the fun scenes Would it not make it a AO game.

 

Have sex with a hooker and cap a kid's head off in full graphical detail would definitely garner a AO rating.

[Fighter]

Does anyone even look at that rating thing?

 

In my country we have no such things, but even if we did and if I had to buy something for a kid, I could most certainly determine what would be appropriate on my own and for most things at first glance too...

[mkreku]

I accidently sent my copy of Resident Evil 4 to my five year old little brother this christmas

 

My dad was not amused.

[LoneWolf16]

Wow, age difference there. You're in your 20s, right, mkreku?

[Llyranor]

He's 43.

[alanschu]

Lets take New Reno from Fallout 2.  If they made a area like that in a game that has realistic graphics like Half Life 2 or Oblivion, and didn't bloack out the screen during the fun scenes Would it not make it a AO game.

 

Have sex with a hooker and cap a kid's head off in full graphical detail would definitely garner a AO rating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I think that New Reno would still be rated M, unless they started actually showing the sex. Which is unnecessary IMO, and adds nothing to the game. I also don't think graphics has much to do with it at all. If Fallout 2 had uncensored sex scenes, I suspect it'd have been rated AO.

 

Violent acts of any kind will not garner the AO rating IMO, even if the ESRB says that "prolonged scenes of intense violence" is categorized under it. I wouldn't consider the killing of a kid to be a prolonged scene of intense violence (I'm thinking they are trying to cover S&M acts with that statement, intense torture and whatnot).

 

And the sexual content is not graphic (i.e. you don't explicitly see any sex). You can have sex in many games now (heck, Leisure Suit Larry wasn't rated AO) that aren't AO. Gothic II (rated M) even has a quasi-softcore scene where you can actually see two people in bed having sex, but the whole screen is kind of blurred out and whatnot, and you certainly don't see anything. It's also not interactive (which I think may be the kicker).

[LoneWolf16]

He's 43.

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Bigger gap than I first thought.

Edited May 5, 2006 by LoneWolf16

[mkreku]

He's 43.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yoou're confusing my age with the size of my ****.