Canon Storylines

[Hekate]

[Jediphile,May 21 2006, 10:52 AM]

But does the quality lie in the romance or in Sion's complexity? Because the latter you certainly get in the male version of the game as well - you still have to convince Sion that the existence he has lived has not been worthwhile and that Kreia chose the Exile over him, because the Exile was able to give up the force, and that there is strength in that. I agree that this works plotwise, but you don't have to play the female Exile to experience it. The male version is just the same, except the early lines are different, because Sion sees the male Exile as a hated competitor for Kreia's affections and nothing else. But you still have to make Sion examine the value of his own existence and make him see that it is not worthwhile, which erodes his will. The last lines you quote are just the same for the male Exile, so in the end, Sion accepts the value in giving up the force from the male Exile just as much as he did from the female Exile.

 

So we agree Sion is complex, good.

 

Does the quality lie is Sion's complexity or in the romance? Yes.

Sion's complexity is great on its own. The romance adds a layer to that complexity and gives female Exile more potential for depth as well. Also, in the bigger picture, basing the quality question on what Sion represents; the pain aspect, then his being able to feel tenderness and affection through his constant pain, represents the others affected by Malachor V have the chance to do so as well. When i consider those who were directly affected by Malachor V in the game, Nihilus, Kreia (who was a former Jedi Master), Exile, Bao-Dur, and Atton, all of them are pretty much incapable of dealing with their emotions and of forging meaningful, deep, and lasting personal relationships of any sort, wherein they do not supress, deny, or otherwise obscure their feelings and/or reality. So i find the romantic aspect of Sion's and Exile's to be a positive addition to the story and the plot.

 

As far as the points Sion is deep regardless of Exile, and he has to die either way go; sure, he is deep regardless, and yes, he has to die either way. But i've dealt with these before so i'll sum up as quickly as i can: the difference in the reason for his dying between male and female Exile is significant to not only Sion personally, but also to Exile personally, and to the larger themes in the story. i find the love involved with Sion for female Exile (just to make it clear, it wouldn't matter to me if he loved male Exile as well/instead. But in the game, he only feels that way about female Exile, just as Atris feels love for only male Exile eventhough it wouldn't matter to me if she loved female Exile as well/instead too) is poignant, touching, (especially in contrast to the Sion's and the story's harshness), and important.

 

Oh, and yes, many of the lines are the same. i hadn't intended to imply they weren't, sorry if it came across that way. i was attempting to point out Sion's complexity and depth as well as the significance of the female Exile-Sion relationship in quoting their conversation. i didn't write out every option either since i was going for the overall jist and the reciprocation of Exile's feelings. i don't have a save game with male Exile and Sion so i couldn't directly compare.

 

[Hekate,May 21 2006, 05:38 AM]

Mical was over the top voice acted and his character was writen as very soft spoken and gentle. He is seen as submissive and spineless because of it. But he isn't spineless nor submissive as i pointed out before. i personally don't like how he was voice acted either. It felt disingenuous and even a little, well, creepy. But when i look beyond that into what he actually says and does throughout the game, i see there is more to his character. As far as his love story goes, well, it certainly isn't the most passionate piece of buring love in history, and it doesn't have a frantic nor longing filled drive behind it. Mical is more serene and Jedi-like in that sense unlike the others, especially Atris and Brianna. Just look at how calm he is when he and Kreia finally do get into it eventhough he figures out she has been messing with him and Exile the whole time etc. Some feel that is boring. That is ok. Jedi generally would be boring in that sense since their behaviour and way of life is intentionally passionless. But he does make a contrast to the other cast in that he isn't pushing down his feelings nor is he letting them control him. He is a pretty centred fellow.

 

[Jediphile]

I'm not really about to disagree with any of this. I don't particularly hate Mical, I just don't think that he is very interesting. But do I think he has value in the game? Sure, I do. But given that we can only choose either him or Brianna to be in the game (by our choice of gender), the question simply becomes which character I find to be more interesting, and here Brianna wins hands down. She is a far more interesting character than Mical to me, and her "betrayal" of Atris adds depth to the plot as I see it. When I played male, I thought after speaking with Mical (in the jedi enclave), "gee, what a paperpusher...". But then he contacted Carth (or Cede) and gave a secret report, and I thought, "well, maybe there's more to this guy than meets the eye...". After that playing a female Exile, however, was disappointing, because my conclusion was "no, there isn't - he just isn't that interesting..." So that makes an argument in favor of the male Exile in my book. You don't like Brianna sparring in, well, the nude or close to it. Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion, but I do not think that all women feel the same way as you do, so while you might see it as demeaning, I do not concur that Brianna does.

 

So we agree Mical has value in the game, good.

 

i should have added to my above paragraph about Mical why i see him as a better character than Brianna (since they are the interchangable ones). One of my concerns and complaints about the male Exile being made cannon is how the female characters who are interested in him are depicted. To me, when i hear how they react, what they voice, their behaviour in general, they seem weak, too compliant, and lack centre. Their characters seem to bounce around too much in order to make them maleable for male Exile which hurts them as characters. Mical remains pretty much himself even if Exile tells him to take a hike. He knows himself, how he feels, what his values are without them being dependant on what Exile thinks, nor on how she may react or feel. i don't see that same strength in the females. Atton, as you have pointed out, doesn't tell female Exile how he feels about her. His character doesn't change because of his love for her. Same with Sion. He is going to try to stop her from getting made unwhole by Kreia, even if he has to kill her with his own hands, but who he is, how he reacts, what he thinks and feels are consistent and not dependant on how she feels about him. Guess to simplify, the males are constant and have a centre without losing themselves trying to curry favour, and their whole lives aren't lived, motivations dictated by, nor views dependant on Exile. The females basically all live for Exile. Two for Exile in any incarnation (Visas and Atris), the other for male Exile alone (Brianna). i find Visas specifically was well done and i believe in her character as she is. It doesn't bother me she is submissive (my opinion) to Exile. Considering her history, it makes perfect logical and emotional sense. All 3 of the potential love interests being so dependant on Exile's approval though, i find disturbing.

 

As far as the Brianna vs Mical thing goes, meh, i find Brianna annoying. i don't like how she was voice acted, how wishy-washy she was, and all the other stuff i've mentioned before. She felt more like a bratty lost teen with a crush than a serious character. Not that lost teens with crushes can't be serious characters, it is just Brianna in particular didn't feel to me as if i could take her seriously, especially since she was supposed to be in her 20s, from what i coud tell. She did have some good qualities, it is true, but overall, the potential intensity of her plot and function in the story were overriden by the less ingratiating elements of her character. My feelings on it only. And i believe i said i thought it was good she had enough self-confidence to spar in her jiggly little outfit. i felt it was insulting to the players (for those who did not feel titilation was more prominent) because of the implications i mentioned in an earlier post. The point wherein it becomes insulting to Brianna is when she pulls the same stunt for all the sparring matches even when Exile tells her to put some clothes on. She ignores his discomfort with the situation and pushes it. To me, that seems rather a pushy, inconsiderate, and offensive thing to do. It'd be the same if the sexes were reversed. Try it once, if works, good for you. If it doesn't work, to persist seems rather... in poor taste.

 

[Jediphile]

It did in Brianna's fight against Atris. She could win, then Atris would zap her to the ground in the next cutscene, and then the Exile arrives in time to save her. Or she could lose, then cut to cutscene with Brianna at Atris' mercy, then the Exile arrives to save her. That battle could be won or lost and still have the same outcome.

 

i thought in the Brianna-Atris fight Brianna has to win while she is being player controlled or else she gets killed and it goes to the "game over" screne. Only after Atris has been defeated by Brianna does the Atris cut-scene cue.

 

[Jediphile]

She's not bad-looking, but I wouldn't go further in that. Any other attraction would, as I see it, come more from the challenge of melting the ice-queen than anything else... (sort of like Han Solo does with Leia in ESB)

 

 

i think Atris was intended to be "classically" gorgeous in the "typical" North American/Euro-centric sense. White, light coloured hair, blue eyes that stand out, pouty lips, high cheek bones, busty, tall, etc... Ultimately, seeing her as attractive or not would come down to player preference, but in the accepted ideal portrayed within the popular culture the devs use as a reference base, she is supposed to be very attractive. To be clear though, i am not in anyway saying those are necessarily good ideals to have. To each her/his own...

 

[Jediphile]

Sion clearly states having feeling for the female Exile, yes. I don't think that it makes much sense (which is why I say that I think it hurts the plot and his character), but he does say it. But I don't see the Exile returning those feelings with the statement you make here. "You've been a presence in my mind" can mean a lot of things. It can just as well be the Exile trying to avoid the confrontation because she is afraid of Sion as anything else, and so she placates him by accepting his comments of affection. I do not see that this statement *must* be a confirmation that the Exile has feelings for Sion as well in any way - it can just as well mean that she is afraid of him.

 

[For better chi flow:]And I see the similar toward Sion in the female Exile's "you've been a presence in my mind"-comment. But though the Exile may be uncomfortable about it, I do think that the line to Atris is more sincere than the female Exile's line to Sion is. The reason behind that is probably that the male Exile no longer has true feelings for Atris, if indeed he ever did, but that when he says this, he has already chosen to spare Atris' life. You do not have that choice with Sion, however, and therefore you can lie or be sincere with him regardless, since he must die in any event. For that reason I do not see the two as completely comparable.

 

[more snipping for better chi]Even if I accept that the principle you describe is true in general that does not mean that I must also accept that it is relevant to Sion and Exile. And I don't. Whatever Sion feels for the Exile, I see no evidence that Exile returns those feelings, and therefore your principle does not apply IMHO.

 

She gets the choice of [persuation] (truth) "Sion, we need not battle - you have been a presence in my mind as well." or [persuation] (lie) "Sion, we need not battle - you have been a presence in my mind as well." among others. So i was basing my argument upon her returning his feelings on her choosing the truth option. That particular argument of mine becomes invalidated if she chooses the lie option. My other related argument though, is the only person Exile in any incarnation can have such a spoken and not dismissive and committal response to is Sion.

 

[Jediphile]

That doesn't make sense to me, because at the point where you say that line to Atris, you've already decided to spare her life. Then it would be truly cruel to lie right to her face, and letting Atris live is not the DS choice. It's true that the male Exile doesn't exactly reciprocate Atris' feelings here, but then how can he? If he doesn't feel that way about her, then it would be very wrong to do, and even if he did feel the same way, those feelings are the very thing that caused Atris' fall in the first place. Atris needs to distance herself from them before she can heal and become whole again, and the feelings she has would hinder that or even make it impossible.

 

What i was getting at is how Exile speaks with Atris is very Exile focused. It is "I" focused rather than "you" focused.

 

I again cannot concur she fell in the first place because of her loving male Exile. She falls no matter what. That is to me much more than a simple "Hell hath no furry as a woman scorned" meaning. There is something in how Atris identified with Exile (whichever Exile) that made her hold onto her rage and self-doubt for 10 years.

 

To answer the how can he reciprocate Atris' love feelings; the answer, i think, would fall into a similar category as Bastila loving male Revan: love leading to redemption. Not that i think it would be good, it is just one of the accepted romantic ideals; that love can save people and all that. IIRC, that is what helped Mara Jade as well. So there is plenty of basis for it to have been possible. If that were an option; however; i think it would be worse for the situation than not having it an option at all. Rather than letting Atris figure things out in a safe way, throwing a romance in with the person who is the vessel of her problems, for her to attempt to slog through the romance as well... yikes!

 

[Hekate,May 21 2006, 05:38 AM]

As i recall, going back in the conversation thread, it was argued Sion and Atton's fight bears no significance because Sion has no personal history with Exile. Thus, your position was personal history is significant. i pointed out the faliciy in that line of thinking by showing how the personal history argument is being unequally applied as a term of point making since to lay claim to Mical's personal history with Exile not mattering, the whole value of using personal history with Exile as an argument basis is faulty. The view should be either; a) having a personal history with Exile doesn't matter, or b) having a personal history with Exile does matter. i asked if you were recinding your position on it because it is important for me to know where you stand on the issue. It is a point of contention afterall. i didn't mean to sound offensive by asking, it was a simple question, but it boils down to tone not being able to come across very well in writing... So, how do you feel about the personal history wtih Exile thing mattering vs not mattering now? (No sarcasm, offence, agitating, etc, intended)

 

[Jediphile]

First of all, the point of whether a personal tie has relevance was made in the context of Mical having one vs. Brianna not having one - I did not not mention it in relation to the Sion/Atton fight (and I don't see how it applies there anyway...)

 

*hesitation* Um, you did, and here it is:

"Indeed, I find Brianna's confrontation far more compelling, because it both resolves her alleged betrayal to her sisters and Atris as well as settling the feelings both she and Atris have for the male Exile, which is significant because of Atris' direct tie to the Exile's past. That duality is not there in Atton's fight with Sion, since Sion is a stranger to the Exile."

Only rather than compare Brianna to Mical, it is comparing Brianna to Atton through Sion's and Atris' personal (or lack thereof) histories with Exile. In an earlier post i stated reasons why the Atton-Sion fight held its own merrit without the need for them to have had a personal history with Exile because of what they each represent and bring to the story.

 

[Jediphile]

Second, no, I'm not going to step into this trap either. "a) having a personal history with Exile doesn't matter, or b) having a personal history with Exile does matter." I do not accept your authority to make this a black-and-white issue, and it is a trap, since the true answer IMHO is the unspoken option c. What I said before was that it hurt the plot if *all* characters had to have a personal tie to the Exile past. Now, that clearly rules out option b. However, I did *not* say, "none of the character may have a personal tie to the exile's past", just that it would hurt the plot if *all* did. The logical conclusion is therefore that while *all* are not relevant, then *some* might. Therefore the correct answer is option c: "having a personal history with the Exile *can* matter, but doesn't have to". You get still get no brownie points, but I'm going to penalize you with demerit points for continual attempts to obscure the discussion. You don't need to see my identification - move along!

 

i need to appologize for my tone with that one, it really did sound dictatorial. So i am sorry for that.

 

i would really like to know how having a common basis of identifying a concept's worth is obscuring the discussion. If "option C" is the common understanding, than either of us could arbitrarily assign value to the personal history link, as has been done with: "No, Mical's personal tie to Exile and his supposing to be her padwan is insignificant, but that Sion doesn't have a personal history with Exile is significant". That makes little sense. That is why i state it should either be it does or doesn't. But, just because it is significant, doesn't mean it overrides other ties; as i have stated with Sion, i don't feel he and Exile need to have had a personal history tie-in in order for his loving her to be relevant and significant. As i read over what you have writen, i am trying to understand what the problem is, and where you see i am trying to trap you. i am quite preoccupied with trying to make cohesive arguments and to see the bigger picture of what we are debating. Just in re-reading what i have writen over the last numerous posts, i have found a few things i have changed my mind about and come to view differently, things i have come to see i misinterpreted, and things i have come to reach a deeper understanding about through our discussing. i don't want to trap you, i want to reach concensus. i want you to see the merrit in my arguments, and i want anyone who reads our thread to see why *off-hand* dismissing female Exile as inferrior to male Exile is an uninformed decission. i also want the terms of this discussion to be even so basic comparisson points are treated equally.

 

[Jediphile]

Having feelings is not the same as having feelings for someone. It is quite obvious that Atris is disappointed and disapproving of the Exile in this scene. Sure, you and I know that there are other emotions at work, but the masters wouldn't. I see Vash, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell getting the same disapproval and frustration from Atris as they undoubtedly do from grumply old Vrook. I do not see Atris revealing her emotions of love or admiration for the exile in that scene, or rather, I don't see that they are in any way obvious to the other masters. She just seems disappointed, disapproving of the exile's actions. I also see her being angry and vengeful, which is why Zez-Kai Ell steps in and tells her to mind her feelings. Her love/admiration for the exile, however, is not displayed in an obvious manner IMHO. So I fear you'll have to look for your plothole elsewhere. These are not the droids you're looking for...

 

[Hekate,May 21 2006, 05:38 AM]

In this context, it doesn't matter if Atris' feelings for Exile are love or hero worship. What her feelings are at all, whether love, hate, anger, whatever, isn't what is important. It is the intencity of her emotions that is the problem. Her feelings are just too strong. That is the pertinent difficulty. Vrook did not go to the extent of saying Exile should have died on Malachor V, he doesn't get emtional, nor does he show open anger. He was rather calm as the rest of the Jedi Council members were. Master Kavar was once Exile's master, yet he was passionless. So the point i was getting at is Atris' feelings were quite an obvious problem. Plot hole reintroduced. Stormtrooper resisted the infamous Jedi mind trick. What will Obi-Wan do now?...

 

[Jediphile]

Now, I know you read what you quote me for above, so why do you ignore the opening statement: "Having feelings is not the same as having feelings for someone." ?

 

As i said, it doesn't matter if Atris feels sexual attraction for Exile, nor anger, nor any mix of any emotions. What matters is she feels intence emotions. The Jedi do not guard solely against feeling intence lust or love, they guard against intence everything, be it anger, jealousy, admiration, identifying with another too strongly... everything. Emotion X, regardless of what it may be, felt too strongly, leads to the DS in one way or another. Whether it is love to jealousy to anger = DS, or whatever other emotional progression follows from whatever emotions are felt. To the Jedi, anything felt too strong is bad.

 

[Jediphile]

I'm having trouble with this, since it seems to me that that you're willfully ignoring which emotions are at work here. You accuse Atris of openly revealing her feelings *for* (meaning either love or admiration) the Exile here, yet when I point out that those precise emotions are not unveiled in this scene, you ignore my point and proceed to claim plothole, because Atris demonstrates *any* feelings at all. YES, SHE DOES, BUT WHICH FEELINGS? It is not irrelevant in this case, because jedi are allowed to have feelings, it's just a question of which ones.

 

Feelings present in Atris in council scene: Disapproval, disappointment, anger, disgust.

 

Feelings *not* overtly present in Atris in council scene: Love or admiration.

 

Attempt to maintain flawed plothole accusation rejected. Yes, there are droids here, but *THESE* are not the droids you're looking for. Move along!

 

Yay, more sifting through previous posts....

 

Ok, i've gone back and re-read the Atris' feelings and the Jedi Council stuff back to post 70. The evolution of this topic began with the comparisson between Mical's and Atris's feelings. The conflict was between whose feelings would be worse or more plot breaking, if at all. i argued Atris's are worse than Mical's by virtue of her being a Jedi Master and that the Council would have acted on the intensity of her feelings. You argued a padawan feeling that way about his Master would be far worse and they would not have let it come to pass. From that, we got into the discussion of Atris revealing she feels strongly for Exile would/would not have been dealt with by the Council.

 

With that in mind, Atris feeling love for male Exile matters in the Mical vs Atris debate. Her feelings of love are not what is important in the Council doing something debate since it is the fact she feels so intencely about anything (which happens to be Exile) that is the problem. Zez-Kai Ell's "mind your feelings" was about her anger and all that, not necessarily about her love since we don't know if the Council knew about Atris's feelings for Exile or not, nor if she was projecting love during the Council meeting or not, although judging solely by what is in-game, they did not, and from what we are shown, since it is the same cut-scene for both sexes of Exile, they would be concerned over what she was eminating during the meeting. And that is my point.

 

[Hekate,May 21 2006, 05:38 AM]

This is another discrepancy in the plot, though. i thought those who were taken to be converted were those who were LS and/or not loyal to Revan. i can't see why someone who is on Revan's side and loyal to Revan would need to be made loyal... *confusion*

 

[Jediphile]

It would be a discrepancy only if Atton was a LS jedi. He was not. He was just an assassin/torturer working for the Sith, who found out that he was force sensitive. He explains how he had heard the stories of those who were found to be force sensitive among the Sith ranks and who were then forcibly removed from service for how knows what reasons (to be turned into dark jedi). It was only when Atton realised that he was himself force sensitive that he had to flee in order to avoid that fate.

 

He was trained by Revan to be an elite Sith assassin who does not kill Jedi but rather captures them for conversion. How an abductor is an assassin, i'm not sure. He probably was order to kill some Jedi directly as opposed to capture for whatever reasons Revan chose to do so, so i guess in that light, assassin applies as well. Atton speaks of how he tortured Jedi, how he broke them. i thought he was doing the job of those he would have been sent to for conversion. He also mentions how he killed those he was breaking. That seems to defeat the purpose of breaking them. An example of which is that last female Jedi he spoke of who connected her mind to his, although he had personal reasons for killing her so he might have been able to cover that up somehow. He also states it is the Jedi (as in those who aren't fallen Jedi) who are taken to conversion 'therapy'. Then he says those who are found to be Force sensitive get taken, and he heard stories of how unpleasant that was for those who were found. Why they would do unpleasant things to those who were already fighting for Revan's cause of their own free will and who were loyal to Revan is beyond me. Perhaps it had to do with going that extra mile with complete domination over the fallen Jedi's mind since they pose a larger threat than those without Force use abilities. In the conflicting information on Revan's Sith and what went on, i find it difficult to fully understand.

 

Anyway, pertaining to Atton leaving the Sith, he says the Jedi told him it was only a matter of time before it was found out he is Force sensitive, which means he would be taken to the dark Jedi training. That was one motivation for him to leave, but in my estimation, not the strongest. He speaks of how after she had connected her mind to his and let him feel everything, she had awoken feelings in him he had, up until that point,not allowed himself to feel. His true feelings. He admits he had never been on the receiving end of what he did to others, and after he felt what she could feel, he could no longer hold his own emotions back. He became completely unable to continue on with what he had been doing because of the compassion and guilt he felt, but also because he couldn't fake false emtions to the extent he previously had. Thus, he didn't leave only out fear of what would happen to him if his Force sensitivity was found out, he mainly (my opinion) left because he just couldn't make himself do it anymore. It isn't as if he stepped-down from being an elite assassin and became a regular grunt instead (assuming that was an option among the Sith way of doing things), he left the Sith, Revan, and the conviction of his belief they were in the right, completely and irrevokably.

 

[Jediphile]

Is he right? Ask a philospher - that's one for the ages, and one that we struggle with still in the real world. Like Malachor, that one echoes still...

 

 

Well...?

 

[Jediphile]

I'm not certain about that. Are we ever told this? I do not recall a comment about Revan, Malak, or even the Exile ordering such a thing created and then commanded the engineers to figure out how, so I would assume this was something Bao-Dur thought up on his own volition. But I'm not sure...

 

Even if Bao-Dur came up with the idea on his own, i assume they ordered him to build it since it would take time and resources which are both precious commodities during a war. It doesn't seem to be a kinda thing that could be thrown together in a short period of time. But you're right, we don't know if he thought of it himself, we only know he built it.

 

[Jediphile]

You're wrong there. I just checked the game to be certain and had no problem sacrificing Visas playing the female Exile. It's true that the option does not always present itself, but that has to do with a bug and not your choice of gender. Put standard clothes on Visas and equip her only with a vibroblade or lightsaber, and you'll get the option to sacrifice her every time, regardless of the Exile's gender.

 

Ok, i was wrong about that then. i tried numerous times with re-loads and in different games, but i couldn't get it. She was in her original clothes and was dual-wielding lightsabres. Come to think of it, maybe dual-wielding is the problem...

 

[Jediphile]

Well, a lot of jedi did die in the Great Sith War, but I don't get the sensation that their ranks were depleted or close to it judging from how it all ends in the "Sith War" comic books, which is, after all, the original source of that information. The jedi assemble a fleet full of jedi vessels and fly to Yavin IV to confront Exar Kun. It even says, "thousands upon thousands of force wielders converge upon the small jungle moon" (yes, it just says "force wielders", but it does mean jedi, I think). At this point Exar Kun realises that Ulic has betrayed his location to the jedi. He then begins a ritual, which requires the sacrifice of all the Massassi warriors he has left. "Even as the jedi approach, Exar KUn prepares himself to unleash his powerful spirit... To shed the chains of his mortal body and run rampant throughout the cosmos!" However, "The wall of light generation by many jedi becomes a crushing blow for the light side of the force... A flood that sweeps down to extinghuish the corrupted power of the Sith... and to stop Exar Kun." After that the jungles around the temple burst into flame, Exar Kun's forces are destroyed, and Exar Kun himself is trapped in his spiritform. No jedi are killed. So while many have been killed during the war, none of those "thousands upon thousands" are killed at the end of it.

 

Haven't read the comics so i have no idea about that. i didn't even know there were thousands and thousands of Jedi at all... Can't argue with source material though...

 

 

Tag... you're it...

[DAWUSS]

I thought I'd bring this back up to get your reactions now that it's official that the Exile is canonically a female

[DarthReliguim]

I resent that.

[Krookie]

I think it's cool.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Female Exile is very agreeable.

[Kalfear]

I think its a mistake but as long as K3 treats the Exile like it did Revan (you say if they male or female) I could care less!

 

I dont but any cannon swg other then kotor comic book.

 

So guess if I actually followed Cannon I might get upset as its obviously a move to satisfy the female followers then anything to do with actual story line!

 

LOL, but I dont so doesnt matter!

 

Now if they suddenly say Zayne (from the comic) is female, THAT WOULD PISS ME OFF!

 

Would make about as much sence as saying the Exile is female but would bother me so much more!

[JediKnight72]

I think the story is push toward male then female with the whole thing with brinna if u make her jedi. In the next one they should make it pushed toward the female side so it can be reven,exile,and girl jedi.

[vaxen83]

Apparently storyline is deeper as male IMO. Otherwise I would love to see canonical Exile as female

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Makes sense. There is additional dialogue with Male PCs somehow.

[DarthReliguim]

Males are more important

[DAWUSS]

Males are more important

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's inviting quite an argument there

 

 

Anyway, I think Malachor V had a slightly more developed ending as a female because you had a brief revelation of Sion's romantic interest in the Exile, showing that he actually cared about her and added a deeper character in him. Granted, it isn't the Atton-Sion duel, but it's better than the male IMO

[JediKnight72]

Males are more important

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats very sexist of you..

[Revan1127]

I voted male, i orignaly played it as a male because well i am one lol.

 

But the female exile wasnt bad either as long as revan is male im happy.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Revan1127

[vaxen83]

Just not too sure if there were any reasons for Exile being female.

[Kazan105]

id have to say male

i just saw it fitting just as revan's love interest in bastila*

he had visas and handmaiden.

 

on a side note **** ^her for being jealous of visas...haha she can hold a grudge.. for the rest of the game to be exact

 

*sorry if spelling is incorrect

[LadyCrimson]

Anyway, I think Malachor V had a slightly more developed ending as a female because you had a brief revelation of Sion's romantic interest in the Exile, showing that he actually cared about her and added a deeper character in him. Granted, it isn't the Atton-Sion duel, but it's better than the male IMO

I really liked that aspect of the female-exile story myself. It humanized Sion in a way that made me feel just the tiniest bit sorry I had to kill him.

[DAWUSS]

Just not too sure if there were any reasons for Exile being female.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Earlier in this thread there was a super-long argument about that. Long read, but interesting IMO

[Ulicus]

In general, I resent any "canonizing" of the KotOR games, because it's unneccessary and stems purely out of LucasFilms desire to use the characters in other media.

 

How is it difficult to put a disclaimer on Revan or the Exile's "Official Character" sheet that says that "lots of information on this personality has been lost, we don't even know if they're male or female, or what even exactly happened during this period of time".

 

It's only difficult because LucasFilm know how popular the KotOR stuff is, and want to milk the era for all its worth outside of the games as well. Only *then* does Revan/the Exile's gender or alignment become an issue.

 

With Jedi Knight, I understand the rationale for making the light side ending canon. The ds ending messed up all the post RotJ continuity - but since neither ending in KotOR, nor Revan's gender, makes any difference in the grand scheme of things, canonizing it is a load of w*nk.

 

I think LucasFilm might find that this canonizing tactic will backfire on them - as the major appeal of the protagonists in the KotOR games is that they're *your* characters. It won't be long before we get a canon appearance for the pair, and then a canon name for the Exile. Probably a couple of "canon novels" too, taking the place of the games.

 

If LucasFilm don't want ambigious characters in their continuity, they should stop letting LucasArts publish games that give us a choice.

 

Whatever - the biggest bugger about this is that the male exile story just works better. You get the better subplot with Atris, the better subplot with Brianna - the only thing you miss out on is the Darth Sion stuff. (That said the Exile/Atton relationship is probably my favourite, even though its a tad underdeveloped)

 

Interestingly, if they *had* to canonize events, I'd have gone with a female Revan (not enough badass female sith lords) and a male Exile. Sure, I prefered the Bastila relationship to Carth's... but they could always get BioWare to go back and script a female/Bastila romance....

Edited July 4, 2006 by Ulicus

[CoM_Solaufein]

Just not too sure if there were any reasons for Exile being female.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I always thought the dialogue responses seemed to be tailored for a female, not a male.

[Darth Blivion]

Just not too sure if there were any reasons for Exile being female.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I always thought the dialogue responses seemed to be tailored for a female, not a male.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What do you mean? The ds jerk responses? The loading rump references? The mostly neutral options? The charitable LS options? How was it tailored for a female when some of the best quotes from the Exile leaned toward a masculine character?

[Benjamin Korr]

Well yeah, no question it should be a LS ending officially. But as to the gender, while I prefer it be male, I could go either way. I dont think the Exile is a big enough character to make a huge fuss either way.

[Darth Blivion]

None of these video game characters are significant to SW as a whole. It's just that Kotor happens to be one of the most interesting story archs in SW at present.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Lastly, If the exile is female, the whole romance with Visas and Handmaiden gets thrown out the window.

 

LOL

 

I have modded that bug so you CAN romance them as a female...

 

~DN~

[vaxen83]

Either way is fine. Canonical gender could have been male, and I might still play as female.

[Exar Kun]

Lastly, If the exile is female, the whole romance with Visas and Handmaiden gets thrown out the window.

 

LOL

 

I have modded that bug so you CAN romance them as a female...

 

~DN~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HAHAHAHA! NICE!... Now we just need a Mod allowing females with Mullet hairstyles.

[DarthReliguim]

Well yeah, no question it should be a LS ending officially.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why the hell should it? If the canon ending was always LS, you could predict how the stories go just by that and it takes all the fun out of it.

 

I guess exile being female isnt so bad since we now have two lesbians in the story (atris and Exile)

Edited July 5, 2006 by DarthReliguim