NWN2 only 20 hours long?

[Judge Hades]

Bugs don't bother me. There is no such thing as a bug free game. It is the after release support that matters, and Atari, with the exception of NWN 1 and mostly due to Bioware's efforts, have a very bad history about supporting their games.

[mkreku]

Atari did an excellent job of supplying Deep Shadows with enough funds to patch Boiling Point until it was a fully working game. That last 200+ MB patch really was awesome.

[Bokishi]

Performance affecting bugs are the worst.

[Darque]

We= Me, myself and I.

 

I like that.

 

And the spirits frend! They are all around!

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sulik ftw!

[Judge Hades]

Never heard of Boiling Point, is it a CRPG?

Edited April 23, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Moose]

"Yeah a 2 hour film might be better than a 4 hour film, but I've never played a 20 hour RPG and considered it to be even remotely good."

 

So... you didn't enjoy FO? That was 10-20 hours (30 if you really stretch it, as low as a couple of hours if you push it).... and, for most boardies in these parts, it's one of the bets games ever (myself included).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fallout was about 24 hours gameplay, and I didn't nearly enjoy it as much as Fallout 2, which was considerably longer.

[Hassat Hunter]

Bugs don't bother me.

 

Depends on the bug I think.

 

Would you be bothered with flickering GFX... guess not

Would you be bothered if you were placed in prison, only to find in order to escape you needed X and you had sold X... then I guess you will be bothered, no?

 

Also wouldn't you be bothered by exploits if playing online against others???

Edited April 23, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[J.E. Sawyer]

let us be fair.  if we ignore fergie estimates and buy nwn2 and it turns out to be 20 hours or less, then we has wasted what little leverage we got.  our must effective means to bring 'bout change is to change the way we spend our dollars.  you know that.  once we buy nwn2 then we gots but little ways to bring 'bout change... but 'course you know that too.

Sure, but after HoW, I can't see the point to a developer ever giving external estimates on game length. If you estimate low, you disappoint people before the game is even out. If you estimate high, you disappoint people after the game comes out. In both cases, it's complete guesswork. Obviously, given HoW and IWD2, the BIS krew (including me) proved they were incapable of accurately gauging game length. I don't think Obsidian is really any better in that regard.

[Judge Hades]

I played Fallout 1 for 60 hours on my first play through. I did a lot of exploring.

[Darque]

I think it took me 60+ hours to beat Fallout 2

 

Fallout was a breeze though, but I played it after F2 so that's to be expected.

[Judge Hades]

Sure, but after HoW, I can't see the point to a developer ever giving external estimates on game length.  If you estimate low, you disappoint people before the game is even out.  If you estimate high, you disappoint people after the game comes out.  In both cases, it's complete guesswork.  Obviously, given HoW and IWD2, the BIS krew (including me) proved they were incapable of accurately gauging game length.  I don't think Obsidian is really any better in that regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then don't guess or give estimates. Simple, eh?

[Hassat Hunter]

Sure, but after HoW, I can't see the point to a developer ever giving external estimates on game length.  If you estimate low, you disappoint people before the game is even out.  If you estimate high, you disappoint people after the game comes out.  In both cases, it's complete guesswork.  Obviously, given HoW and IWD2, the BIS krew (including me) proved they were incapable of accurately gauging game length.  I don't think Obsidian is really any better in that regard.

 

QFT

 

Soon

[metadigital]

Well, it was an IE game, and all IE games have the same basic style which I have honed with multiple playings of BG, BG 2, IWD, and PS:T which I played to death (30 to 40 times each) so when IWD 2 came out it was pretty much a breeze. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I played Fallout 1 for 60 hours on my first play through.  I did a lot of exploring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Gromnir]

as for GD and his question 'bout whether we believe the bio numbers that put the non-oc applications at something less than 10%... am not sure, but we wonders why the biowarians would undervalue their sp download numbers.  how would that benefit bioware?

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does not matter. There is no way for them to track it. Maybe less than 10% bought premuim mods but the sites that hosted user made modules\haks had no affilitaion with Bioware and therefore there is no way to know what percentage of gamers made use of custom made content. The CEP alone had more than a million downloads. It is an untrackable metric and whoever said it was whistling in the wind. Yes, they were guessing, as I am and I'd say I'm probably closer to being right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you got more or less reason to have accurate numbers than bioware?

 

*shrug*

 

this is their business. we bet they has looked at the numbers real close. we might quibble 'bout how they value those numbers, but we is more likely to accept their numbers than Gromnir estimates or vol estimates or gd estimates... much as we accepted fergie's numbers that he gave for ps:t sales. we don't honestly trust fergie much farther than we thinks we could throw him... josh will recall the post 3e ranger/iwd2 fallout and how fergie tried to pull the Mesmer routine on the community... lost a great deal of respect for him... and his credibility went down the crapper, but we do not thinks he lies 'bout sales numbers. we disagreed with fergie 'bout his conclusions, but he tells us that total sales of ps:t is almost double the point-of-sales numebrs we post and we believed him... and that were a situation wherein he had reason to fib.

 

just as we thinks it is reasonable for an average purchaser to believes fergie estimates 'bout nwn2 playing time more than Guard Dog, so to we believes bioware estimates on sp dowloads more than Guard Dog. the developers seems to have more reason and better access to relevant info.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Judge Hades]

There wasn't much to explore in IWD 2. It was a pretty straight forward and linear game. Fallout 1 was a lot more open than IWD2. I also liked Fallout 1 a lot more than IWD 2 so I spent more time on it to explore every crack, nook, and cranny.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Judge Hades

[BicycleOfDeath]

*laughs* I think the reason IWD took so long was that forest. I bet I spent 10 hours just on that part alone.

[Judge Hades]

It is silly to not have a ranger and druid in your party in a IWD game.

[Gromnir]

let us be fair.  if we ignore fergie estimates and buy nwn2 and it turns out to be 20 hours or less, then we has wasted what little leverage we got.  our must effective means to bring 'bout change is to change the way we spend our dollars.  you know that.  once we buy nwn2 then we gots but little ways to bring 'bout change... but 'course you know that too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, but after HoW, I can't see the point to a developer ever giving external estimates on game length. If you estimate low, you disappoint people before the game is even out. If you estimate high, you disappoint people after the game comes out. In both cases, it's complete guesswork. Obviously, given HoW and IWD2, the BIS krew (including me) proved they were incapable of accurately gauging game length. I don't think Obsidian is really any better in that regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

am agreeing with you complete. as we noted above, the HoW situation were a nightmare and we cannot thinks that you would wanna revisit that nightmare. caution seems the best approach.

 

nevertheless, fergie already did throw out a number. the 20 hour figure is know to us fans, and in the absence of any other information it seems likely that the average potential purchaser will give fergie comments some credence... much as Gromnir and others gaves weight to bis estimates of HoW pre-release. right now all we got to go on is fergie estimates, and given that our only real leverage is our dollars...

 

*shrug*

 

we will hold off on making any final plans regarding nwn2 purchasing, but we knows that reviews nowadays is equally suspect insofar as guessing hours of gameplay. there is an understandable rush to be the first persons to post reviews. as such we don't know how many reviewers actually finish the games they is reviewing. the reviewer estimates 'bout hours o' gameplay may simply be guesstimates based on info gleaned from the developers.

 

what does josh suggest Gromnir do? assume for the moment that we feels that less than 30 hours for a crpg is unacceptable. now given the fact that right now all we gots is fergie comments, what is your honest advice? should we hold off on purchase until somebody we trust plays? sounds like good advice, but that behavior hurts atari and obsidian don't it?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[J.E. Sawyer]

what does josh suggest Gromnir do?  assume for the moment that we feels that less than 30 hours for a crpg is unacceptable.  now given the fact that right now all we gots is fergie comments, what is your honest advice?  should we hold off on purchase until somebody we trust plays?  sounds like good advice, but that behavior hurts atari and obsidian don't it? 

Disappointing paying customers hurts us more. I'd rather someone hear bad things about our game and not buy it than buy it and get angry because they feel they were misled.

[Judge Hades]

Disappointing paying customers hurts us more.  I'd rather someone hear bad things about our game and not buy it than buy it and get angry because they feel they were misled.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is definitely an attitude I can very much respect and appreciate.

[Cantousent]

No need to play it Angry Joe when the developers tell you all the shortcomings of the game before you play it.  Good thing Feargus told us up front on how long the game is so I wouldn't waste my money on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, Feargus didn't. A german magazine quotes something Feargus said, after they translated it, of course. A member of the Codex, that shining beacon of intellectual honesty, free from bias, then retranslated it into English. Pardon me if I'd rather wait until Obsidian releases the game. Or, perhaps at least wait until closer to the release date.

[Judge Hades]

You do have a point there. Anything that the RPG Codex puts out needs to be... well... ignored.

[Gromnir]

what does josh suggest Gromnir do?  assume for the moment that we feels that less than 30 hours for a crpg is unacceptable.  now given the fact that right now all we gots is fergie comments, what is your honest advice?  should we hold off on purchase until somebody we trust plays?  sounds like good advice, but that behavior hurts atari and obsidian don't it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disappointing paying customers hurts us more. I'd rather someone hear bad things about our game and not buy it than buy it and get angry because they feel they were misled.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

is good advice. josh sometimes gets himself in hot water for being honest. hope this ain't one of those times. shouldn't be.

 

Gromnir will wait and hope for some positive feedback. heck, we weren't gonna buy nwn2 before the first patch were released anyways, as that becames our game purchase policy following the release of the first nwn. no doubt by then we has some goodly notion of actual gameplay hours.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Judge Hades]

That is assuming Atari lets them patch it.

[Guard Dog]

what does josh suggest Gromnir do?  assume for the moment that we feels that less than 30 hours for a crpg is unacceptable.  now given the fact that right now all we gots is fergie comments, what is your honest advice?  should we hold off on purchase until somebody we trust plays?  sounds like good advice, but that behavior hurts atari and obsidian don't it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disappointing paying customers hurts us more. I'd rather someone hear bad things about our game and not buy it than buy it and get angry because they feel they were misled.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd think the former would be worse than the latter. Once a game is bought it's bought. As far as not getting returning customers, I was as angry as everyone else about KOTOR2 but I'll still buy NWN2 on release day. Besides, saying you will not buy a game six months from release because of an estimate given buy a non engineer executive who has no even played a full game seems more than a little childish to me. And if the total game time is 20 hours but it's 20 good hours then what more could you ask from a game with only a 2 year dev cycle and a new graphics engine on top of that? As I've said all day, as with the original game there will be a lot more to NWN2 than the OC.

 

Also, I'm sure by now the topic of expansion has come up in at least one meeting.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Guard Dog