Llyranor Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 As some of you may know, Galactic Civilizations 2 has no copy protection. The devs' philosophy is simply to provide a product worth actually buying, and a serial number to allow updates and so on. Someone posted the fact that GalCiv2 is selling extremely well despite no copy protection on the Starforce site. One of the bitter Starforce admins then provided proof that GalCiv2 is losing tons and tons of sales by linking to torrent sites of GalCiv2. http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx?ForumID=161&AID=106741 And the pic in question http://www.galciv2.com/temp/starfo2.jpg Go go professional integrity! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreptishus Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Is Starforce uncrackable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 No. They just like to think it is. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Starforce = owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 In fact, StarForce has been cracked in several games. And those that haven't been cracked have had bypasses. Also, not every download = a lost sale. The question is, how many of those discouraged from downloading a game thanks to copy protection such as StarForce are actually buying the game? Is the number high enough to warrant the cost of using StarForce in the first place (which I'm sure doesn't come cheaply). StarForce especially is actually a detriment for a lot of people to buy a game. I know of people that's had their systems messed up by StarForce, enough of them to make me hesitant to ever get a game with SF. I actually like the way the GalCiv developers think and I'm very tempted to buy the game just for that. The fact that they are selling the game via direct download is another plus for me (although I don't like that the digital version costs the same as the boxed one, but that is another discussion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I actually like the way the GalCiv developers think and I'm very tempted to buy the game just for that. The fact that they are selling the game via direct download is another plus for me (although I don't like that the digital version costs the same as the boxed one, but that is another discussion). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The digital download cost also includes the cost of a boxed version. If you later wanted a boxed copy, they would send it to you without any additional cost except shipping and handling. Anyway, I read about that on the GalCiv2 forums. Noticed that they also followed the link to the torrent site and had the game removed. The Starforce guy was looking for it on that site for awhile after it was removed and couldn't find it. Basic gist of the conversation. Board member: "GalCiv2 is doing great in stores without your crummy starforce crap!" Starforce employee: "Look here! Thousands of people are torrenting GalCiv2! This wouldn't have happened if they used Starforce! Starforce roxxors!" *Stardock devs find the post and have the torrent removed* Board member: "I don't see a torrent for it in that link..." Starforce employee: "Wait, it was there just a moment ago! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Hopefully Stardock can pursue legal channels against Starforce for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 Haha, apparently, it seems this bit of news has actually been pretty good advertising for Stardock, and people who wouldn't have bought the game before did so, even if the 4X genre didn't exactly suit them. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Actually, if Starforce delays pirating of a game by ~1 week, they've won. The ideal situation would be if Starforce was uncrackable, but they realize that's almost impossible. Most games sell most of their copies within a few weeks from release, therefore the goal for Starforce is to delay the pirated versions to reach the common people for a week or so. If they manage that, the game won't be hurt as bad by pirating, and so far they've done a great job. Starforce games take longer to crack than other systems. Unfortunately, it's also the most intrusive and annoying system for the end-user. Personally I don't like Starforce one bit, but I can definitely see why it's so popular. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karka Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I actually like the way the GalCiv developers think and I'm very tempted to buy the game just for that. The fact that they are selling the game via direct download is another plus for me (although I don't like that the digital version costs the same as the boxed one, but that is another discussion). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The digital download cost also includes the cost of a boxed version. If you later wanted a boxed copy, they would send it to you without any additional cost except shipping and handling. Anyway, I read about that on the GalCiv2 forums. Noticed that they also followed the link to the torrent site and had the game removed. The Starforce guy was looking for it on that site for awhile after it was removed and couldn't find it. Basic gist of the conversation. Board member: "GalCiv2 is doing great in stores without your crummy starforce crap!" Starforce employee: "Look here! Thousands of people are torrenting GalCiv2! This wouldn't have happened if they used Starforce! Starforce roxxors!" *Stardock devs find the post and have the torrent removed* Board member: "I don't see a torrent for it in that link..." Starforce employee: "Wait, it was there just a moment ago! " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I paid additional 15$ for the box. 5$(box price) + 10$(shipping price) And now, my key will expire 20 days later. If my game won't arrive soon(or never), i'll be very angry grrrr :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowPusher Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) What ****ing rumour mongers. (talking about diggs.com) Do they have credibility? God I hope not. Edited March 13, 2006 by CrowPusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I like to reward the shareware system by purchasing software (that I like) that is released for free trial. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I paid additional 15$ for the box. 5$(box price) + 10$(shipping price) And now, my key will expire 20 days later. If my game won't arrive soon(or never), i'll be very angry grrrr :angry: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's the box price? You mean the extra $5 that they charge on their website? From what I recall, the price is $45 from them whether you want a boxed version or not. The only difference in price is the $10 for shipping. And I would think that your game would arrive within 20 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karka Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 They say "cost of media" for that 5$. I paid for GalCiv2 45+5+10 = 60$ But i don't regret. I like to support Indie Developers and Shareware products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Copy protection sucks. More often than not it introduces bugs and it doesn't really stop the determined pirate. I am thinking that GalCiv 2 might be my next purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 They say "cost of media" for that 5$. I paid for GalCiv2 45+5+10 = 60$ But i don't regret. I like to support Indie Developers and Shareware products. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh. I must have missed that. I bought mine at my local EB in order to not get screwed over by converting to US funds. <_< Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Actually, if Starforce delays pirating of a game by ~1 week, they've won. The ideal situation would be if Starforce was uncrackable, but they realize that's almost impossible. Most games sell most of their copies within a few weeks from release, therefore the goal for Starforce is to delay the pirated versions to reach the common people for a week or so. If they manage that, the game won't be hurt as bad by pirating, and so far they've done a great job. Starforce games take longer to crack than other systems. Unfortunately, it's also the most intrusive and annoying system for the end-user. Personally I don't like Starforce one bit, but I can definitely see why it's so popular. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats right. An AAA title game is judged by the publisher depending on the sales during the first 2 weeks, and theoreticly, delaying the pirate release might be worth the money it costs to purchase. BUT the thing is that people dont go "Oh, damn.. there is no pirated version out yet. Well I guess Ill just run down to the store and buy a copy then" like publishers/copy-prot people/anti-pirate organisations like to think. In the end you probably end up paying more for the protection than you would have lost to piracy. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) The digital download cost also includes the cost of a boxed version. If you later wanted a boxed copy, they would send it to you without any additional cost except shipping and handling. I did say this was another discussion, but since you mentioned it, I will take it here anyway. Of course, this is a bit moot of they actually charge an additional $5 for media if you want the box, since that's basically my whole argument. But here is why: I don't like physical stuff. If I can get a game and everything I need to play it though digital means only then I'm all happy. I don't want CD-boxes taking up space and I definitely don't want manuals. Not only do I think they waste space in my (tiny) apartment, I also think it's a waste of resources to put stuff on paper and plastic that I don't need. If I desperately want the game on a CD I can just burn it myself and personally think that any game that isn't playable without having to read the manual is designed poorly. So if I was paying the same price for a digital game as I would for a boxed game, not only would I be paying for stuff I don't want, I'd actually be paying for stuff I think shouldn't be produced in the first place. But as I said, this isn't the case here, since apparently they do charge your for the materials used. I never wanted a large discount, just an acknowledgement that the digital product is cheaper to produce. Personally I don't like Starforce one bit, but I can definitely see why it's so popular. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is it really that popular? Most of the games I've seen use it are those with a European publisher, which mostly means eastern european developers (UFO, Silent Storm, etc). Most US games don't use it, I think. UFO: Aftershock is the only SF game I've installed on my computer. Edited March 13, 2006 by Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I like to reward the shareware system by purchasing software (that I like) that is released for free trial. Shareware rocks. Damn shame it's not so popular anymore. BUT the thing is that people dont go "Oh, damn.. there is no pirated version out yet. Well I guess Ill just run down to the store and buy a copy then" like publishers/copy-prot people/anti-pirate organisations like to think. In the end you probably end up paying more for the protection than you would have lost to piracy. Not only that. Since I read a few things about Starforce and what it does, I'm boycotting every game that uses that particular copy protection, starting with Chaos Theory. A damn fine game, but I'd rather not risk my hardware being damaged, or my system becoming unstable just because they want to make sure I'm not going to pirate a game I've paid for. It's ironic how copy protections are good only for pissing the legitimate user, the only user really affected by it, as pirated versions have already been cracked. And still, developers keep paying to include this kind of garbage in their works. Whatever. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Yeah, I'm pretty much on the verge of boycotting any Starforce products as well. Vote with your wallet, I say. Besides, most of the games I foresee getting in the near future will all have digital distribution as an option as well. And it's not the devs. It's the publishers. Ubisoft is one of the main publishers using it. Codemasters is another one. Edited March 13, 2006 by Llyranor (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I kind of agree. While I can see the concerns of the producers, the real effects punish legitimate users while the pirates will crack it anyway and ironically be better off than the legitimate users stuck with StarForce. Spreading beauty with my katana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Damn, I already bought Chaos Theory! *shakes fist at Ubisoft* OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 They say "cost of media" for that 5$. I paid for GalCiv2 45+5+10 = 60$ But i don't regret. I like to support Indie Developers and Shareware products. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you bought it from Stardock, you should still be able to d/l the game and play it right now anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I kind of agree. While I can see the concerns of the producers, the real effects punish legitimate users while the pirates will crack it anyway and ironically be better off than the legitimate users stuck with StarForce. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think this perspective is an easy one to take because we cannot see the perspective of the big business. The effectiveness of copyprotection goes far beyond the "well it gets cracked anyways" argument, and is pretty much a guess for anyone because any numbers that get shown from the corporation or copyprotectors is automatically dismissed, and AFAIK no "impartial" study has ever really been done. There's schools of thought based on theory, but the theory is typically only supported anecdotally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Hm, probably right. It's hard to isolate the effect of StarForce because there's almost no way to compare similar products with and without the feature. Seriously though people will crack games if they want it hard enough and it's not that difficult to obtain the cracked ones (they'll be the ones that are pirated/shared). Spreading beauty with my katana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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