No Fallout 3 at E3 2006

[Llyranor]

There's a reason why Bethesda doesn't hype its story/dialogue, aside from Patrick Steward.

 

Look at the clip from my sig. The top5 reasons aren't made up. More details here: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...07&&do=findComment&comment=525407 That says it all. "But wait, it's E3! I know it was an important event and that the devs wouldn't just throw around complete drivel there to show us that that they're not complete hacks, but it's E3 is so far away, I'm sure they've improved it, right? RIGHT?" Okay, let's see what they've improved since.

 

"The persuasion minigame is very different from what was shown at E3. It plays much more like a game now. Similar to the one we showed, the game still uses a circular interface divided into four quadrants for the different persuasion types. The art is completely different and fully animated now. Each of the four quadrants will fill with wedges of different sizes. The size of the wedge reflects the scale of the potential effect of your choosing an action. Choosing a large wedge has a great effect; choosing a small wedge has a small effect.

 

As you highlight in turn the Admire, Boast, Joke, and Coerce quadrants, the person 's face shows his reaction to each of the actions. For each of the four actions, he will Love one, Like one, Dislike one, and Hate one. Don't take too long, because the person 's disposition is steadily falling. The person 's disposition goes up when you select a Loved or Liked action and goes down when you select a Disliked or Hated action.

 

The potential gain or loss for each action is based on your Speechcraft and how full the wedge is. Try to select fuller wedges when they are aligned with actions the person likes. Try to select less full wedges when they are aligned with actions he doesn't like."

 

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Okay, let's look at recent footage, from 2006 - teh infamous German video!!! http://youtube.com/w/Oblivion?v=7srHUGNma5c&search=oblivion

 

"But she's always got a smile on her face!"

"No one works harder than Mary!"

 

"Oh hello!"

"Rysan is a talented smith! One of the best around!"

 

"Over here! Yes, you! We need to talk! Yes! We can't talk here! Too public! Meet me behind the great chapel at midnight! Don't let anyone follow you! I'll make it worth your while" *wink wink*"

 

"You! You are the one from my dream! Then the stars were right, this is the day. Gods give me strength!"

 

This is made worse by the casual convos btw NPCs being ONLY voice-acted, with no text. This creates immersion where there was none before, and it lets you appreciates the excellent voice-acting talent behind Oblivion. Words alone can't do them justice, you have to hear it yourself, so watch the clips! But wait, some people praise this awesome feature! http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/the-elder...n/679364p1.html

"Oblivion features only spoken dialogue, so you won't have to waste your time with any of that messy "reading" that plagues other RPGs."

 

I'm glad they're catering Oblivion to me! I really am!

 

All signs point to yes indeed.

[Nick_i_am]

ALL signs point to yes.

[butterfly]

You mean like Baldur's Gate 1&2&expansions, NWN&expansions, KOTOR1&2, ToEE, IWD1&2&expansions?

 

What about Wizardry, Ultima Underworld, Lands of Lore 1, Might and Magic, Betrayl at Krondor, etc There are a lot of other RPGs that don't have the same design as all those D&D adaptations and that are just as good if not better.

I'm looking forward to Oblivion because it is a RPG, a big one, a good one(all signs point to YES) and those are very rare. It's a single player MMORPG? Maybe but it's a free MMORPG and mods will abound that will allow us to fix whatever we don't like about it, just like Morrowind and NWN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was not commenting on wether it was good or not, i was pointing out it had no similarity to fallout. Nor was i commenting on the quality of Oblivion.

 

qwb,

[Spider]

I don't know the details, as is said it was jus my impression. Anyway it was a move from character skill to player skill, wich for me is not a positive thing.

 

I'm fairly happy as long as they do either or. I vastly prefer RPGs where my character's skill is what decides if I succeed in a task o rnot, but I'm not adversed to a system similar to that in Vampire: Bloodlines (player skill decides whether or not I hit, but character skill makes hitting easier and affects how much damage is dealt).

 

Most games are pausable, what I mean with "with pause" is that you can give orders while paused.

 

I know most games are pausable, but I meant it in the same sense you did. Now, I haven't played Morrowind for much more than a few hours total and it's been ages, so I'm probably totally wrong here. But didn't the game pause when you right-clicked and allowed you to do stuff like change weapons, access inventory, reposition the mouse so that you had a lock on your target and only needed to click on it once you went out of pause and so?

 

Like I said, it's not unlikely I am way off on this, but that's how I remember it.

[butterfly]

I know most games are pausable, but I meant it in the same sense you did. Now, I haven't played Morrowind for much more than a few hours total and it's been ages, so I'm probably totally wrong here. But didn't the game pause when you right-clicked and allowed you to do stuff like change weapons, access inventory, reposition the mouse so that you had a lock on your target and only needed to click on it once you went out of pause and so?

 

Like I said, it's not unlikely I am way off on this, but that's how I remember it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never played morrowwind, so it could be your right. It is still different from fallout in that respect though since it was turnbased (to clarify i'm not saying that turnbased is better or that F3 should be turnbased).

 

I'm fairly happy as long as they do either or. I vastly prefer RPGs where my character's skill is what decides if I succeed in a task o rnot, but I'm not adversed to a system similar to that in Vampire: Bloodlines (player skill decides whether or not I hit, but character skill makes hitting easier and affects how much damage is dealt).

 

I don't play games that require to much player skill, since i suffer a slight RSI disability. So I prefer a time-type where i can sit back and calmly issue orders.

 

qwb,

[kumquatq3]

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Ewwwwwwww, really? The video is slugish, so I can't really see for myself, but are we sure it wasn't just for demo purposes?

[kumquatq3]

Mostly off topic, look at the guys tatoo:

[metadigital]

You mean like Baldur's Gate 1&2&expansions, NWN&expansions, KOTOR1&2, ToEE, IWD1&2&expansions?

 

What about Wizardry, Ultima Underworld, Lands of Lore 1, Might and Magic, Betrayl at Krondor, etc There are a lot of other RPGs that don't have the same design as all those D&D adaptations and that are just as good if not better.

I'm looking forward to Oblivion because it is a RPG, a big one, a good one(all signs point to YES) and those are very rare. It's a single player MMORPG? Maybe but it's a free MMORPG and mods will abound that will allow us to fix whatever we don't like about it, just like Morrowind and NWN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was not commenting on wether it was good or not, i was pointing out it had no similarity to fallout. Nor was i commenting on the quality of Oblivion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, but I was pointing out that Bethesda have a track record of continual improvement (Kaizen, if you will) focussed on creating better RPGs. This leads me to think that they have just as good a chance as anyone to create a better FallOut.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't play games that require to much player skill, since i suffer a slight RSI disability. So I prefer a time-type where i can sit back and calmly issue orders.

 

qwb,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldnt say Morrowind requires much in the way of skill. Skill can certainly help when it comes to doing things early or out of sequence. But you can still do what you can in most RPGs which is to level up and make the differences.

 

Oblivion has sort of merged the two, so rather than have a to hit (which meant not only did the player have to hit the target but the character too) it's all been merged together.

[Deraldin]

Maybe they should go and read the "freedom of speach" thread...  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You seem to be confusing the forums with the free world that exists outside them. As you can plainly see this forum is a combination mob rule/dictatorship of the mods. "

[Llyranor]

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Ewwwwwwww, really? The video is slugish, so I can't really see for myself, but are we sure it wasn't just for demo purposes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"The persuasion minigame is very different from what was shown at E3. It plays much more like a game now. Similar to the one we showed, the game still uses a circular interface divided into four quadrants for the different persuasion types. The art is completely different and fully animated now. Each of the four quadrants will fill with wedges of different sizes. The size of the wedge reflects the scale of the potential effect of your choosing an action. Choosing a large wedge has a great effect; choosing a small wedge has a small effect.

 

As you highlight in turn the Admire, Boast, Joke, and Coerce quadrants, the person 's face shows his reaction to each of the actions. For each of the four actions, he will Love one, Like one, Dislike one, and Hate one. Don't take too long, because the person 's disposition is steadily falling. The person 's disposition goes up when you select a Loved or Liked action and goes down when you select a Disliked or Hated action.

 

The potential gain or loss for each action is based on your Speechcraft and how full the wedge is. Try to select fuller wedges when they are aligned with actions the person likes. Try to select less full wedges when they are aligned with actions he doesn't like."

[Gorth]

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Ewwwwwwww, really? The video is slugish, so I can't really see for myself, but are we sure it wasn't just for demo purposes?

Sounds like a glorified version of the old Fallout "empathy" skill (or perk or trait or whatever it was).

[metadigital]

Ah, but the glory is the difference. ^_^

[butterfly]

I don't play games that require to much player skill, since i suffer a slight RSI disability. So I prefer a time-type where i can sit back and calmly issue orders.

 

qwb,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldnt say Morrowind requires much in the way of skill. Skill can certainly help when it comes to doing things early or out of sequence. But you can still do what you can in most RPGs which is to level up and make the differences.

 

Oblivion has sort of merged the two, so rather than have a to hit (which meant not only did the player have to hit the target but the character too) it's all been merged together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why did you quote me, it has nothing to do with your post?

 

qwb,

[SSgtSniper]

Maybe they should go and read the "freedom of speach" thread...  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You seem to be confusing the forums with the free world that exists outside them. As you can plainly see this forum is a combination mob rule/dictatorship of the mods. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh. Heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Thank you for the first good laugh of the morning.

 

(its funny because it's mostly true)

[metadigital]

SgtSniper will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes ...!

[Darque]

Mostly off topic, look at the guys tatoo:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[SSgtSniper]

SgtSniper will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes ...!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said I didn't enjoy watching the Mob Rule/ Dictatorship of the mods, I just said it was mostly true.

[Darque]

mob rule? wtf?

[Jediphile]

Okay, but I was pointing out that Bethesda have a track record of continual improvement (Kaizen, if you will) focussed on creating better RPGs. This leads me to think that they have just as good a chance as anyone to create a better FallOut.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, we can hope...

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm very uncertain about the whole thing. Fallout was a classic series, but has already spawned a few offshots that were hated by the fans.

 

I'd love a FO3 that updates the old system and yet retains the special FO atmosphere, but I can't say that I'm hopeful about the results... It'll be a killer game if it works, though.

 

But I think the project is sort of doomed from the beginning, because some fans of the originals (be it FO or some other game, or even movies or books) can be pretty rabid. I mean, I can't imagine what Lucas should have done to make *all* the fans like the prequel episodes, or what Obsidian should have done to make *all* the K1 fans like K2. It's just not possible.

 

It'll be the same with FO3, no doubt.

 

It might have been easier if Bethesda had just launched a "Fallout - the next generation" or similar

[kumquatq3]

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Ewwwwwwww, really? The video is slugish, so I can't really see for myself, but are we sure it wasn't just for demo purposes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EDIT: the long explanation

 

 

Maybe Shadow can affirm or clarify? Since it seems to be talked about, I assume it's fair game to discuss?

[Shadowstrider]

The persuasion mini-game is just that; a mini-game. You're not forced to use it, much like you're not forced to make casual conversation with people you see at school, work, or anywhere else.

 

Yes, you do see whether or not the people will like, dislike, love, or hate an attempt in advance; but in the long term it doesn't matter. Why doesn't it matter? It doesn't matter because in ANY attempt to persuade someone you must use EACH persuasion tactic at least once. In that regard, the mini-game has an element of strategy, and last I checked the speechcraft skill effected the increase/decrease associated with each attempt. An NPC has a base reaction (ranging from 0-100), and this is effectively a timer in the game. Every second it decreases by 1. The key to increasing a reaction is to learn their personality, and crack jokes, boast, coerce or intimidate quickly based on this.

 

Is it realistic? No. Is it fun? Yes, assuming you're not doing it for hours on end.

 

For clarification, dialogue choices do matter in this game. Based on how you interact with people in dialogue, the gameplay is effected. For example, if you mock someone, they might not be inclined to ask for your help. Both the dialogue and the persuasion mini-game can effect things; for better and for worse.

[Plin]

He is also wrong about the dialogue being only voiced. There is text displaying what the NPC is saying as it is saying it.

[Gabrielle]

Mostly off topic, look at the guys tatoo:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice

[alanschu]

So, a diplomatic skill that allows you to make the NPC like you more. That's good, right? You can HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND YOU GET THE NPC'S REACTION EVEN BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SELECT IT. This is a revolutionary feature. Who would have taught of adding a cool minigame to dialogue? Well, Bethesda did.

 

Jade Empire did this with text selection options as well.