Icewind Dale 2

[kirottu]

Pride goes before fall.

[Zagor]

I think the whole van buren, and later on, the gauntlet problems were very unfortunate. But I have high hopes for Sawyers future work.

 

From what I've read, he seems like a very ambitious person with great opinions about rpgs, and how they should be designed.

 

Maybe there will be some new opportunity as a lead designer at obsidian, for some future project? I hope so

[J.E. Sawyer]

Would you feel proud about Jefferson and Van Buren if they came to fruition, if there were no external obstacles?

I'm not sure. It's easy to say, "Well, if we had X and Y, and Z hadn't happened, the game would have been great." But there's still the possibility that you can screw a game up all by yourself. A lot of the things we were trying to do in Black Hound were experiemental; I don't know if people would have liked them. Also, a lot of people don't like how I write stories or characters, so they might have hated the CNPCs and other prominent characters in the game.

 

I am pretty confident we could have executed well on F3, but I think it would have taken another round of area reviews to get things more cohesive and focused.

[GhostofAnakin]

I enjoyed IWD2 for what it was. I got a little bored with the constant hack n slash, but that was more to do with my own tastes than the game's.

 

I wasn't a big fan of the main antagonists though.

[Kelverin]

What were your pros of this game? Setting, DnD, voice overs, music, Targos -maybe the best area of any DND game.(Durlags Tower) Beautiful art work. By far the best game using sorry 3rd edition rules.

 

What were your cons of this game?

3rd edition sucks ass. Slow downs. The story was all over the place and not very engaging. The separate areas did not seem to flow as well as it should have. It was like they completed each level then made a story to tie it all together.

 

Was it better or worse than the first one?

I like the first one better. Matter of fact maybe the best DnD game ever. The item descriptions were awesome, and made me feel as if I the game world was alive and full of rich history. Random magic items. While I enjoyed the art, music, v.o., and sound effects of the second game, the first one was superior on every level. Some of you will complain about the story, but you do not have a clue what the hell you are talking about. Great story. Not a blasted thing wrong with it.

[Gabrielle]

Was that mod to play BG2 in IWD2 ever fully completed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it's dead in the water.

[Gabrielle]

I am not proud of any of the games I've worked on, so it's not that surprising that people conclude I'm incompetent from looking at my work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incompetent? Far from it, you've done a good job. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[Cantousent]

I, for one, was happy with IWD2. It was not the experience of IWD, but it was a sound game. Was it a blockbuster? No, but my understanding is that wasn't a dog, either. It received at least some acclaim from various quarters, including quite a showing from Computer gaming world.

 

I'm not going to bother throwing my hat into the reviewers' ring except to cite the one thing that irritated me about the game: why the hell did you screw mages? Put in more scrolls, dammit!

 

As for your writing, Sawyer, how many people complain about it? Considering that, no matter how good it is, someone won't like the writing in each game on the market. You judge your writing by how many people enjoy it, not how many people don't. A lot of folks don't like Tolkien, but his legacy is keeping his estate in good shape decades after his death. You might not be a Tolkien, but you produce solid, enjoyable writing that is accessible to most players. That's the job of every game designer.

 

Finally, you should be proud of the game. It's ridiculous to deny yourself some satisfaction at designing a game that, if not universally popular, provided hours of enjoyment to sizeable number of players. Unless, of course, you like beating on yourself for no reason. That's not ridiculous, that's just stupid.

[Slowtrain]

IWD2 has grown on me over the years. Although I still can't say I love it; it does have its moments. Which I think shows its major flaw: inconsistency and a lack of overarching direction. Some levels like the attack on the Horde fortress are pretty cool; others like the Ice Palace are just ghastly. I did enjoy the 3e rules, which added some development time to the game, although I would have liked to have seen some of the skills and feats made more useful in the game. The set combat pieces were a bit reptetive in places, and there was a a lot of: fight big battle, rest; fight big battle, rest; fight big battle; rest, rine and repeat. I would have preferred more varied pacing to the combat.

 

But still there was a lot to like. God knows, I played it enough, both SP and MP. lewl.

 

edit: added some screenies

Edited January 22, 2006 by CrashGirl

[Nick_i_am]

I LOVE YOU J.E!

 

But yeah, that IWD2 had such a 'rocky' development pretty much shows.

[Judge Hades]

Its better to have a "rocky" development than a "bullwinkle" development.

[Nick_i_am]

It's better to be making a game you actually want to make.

[Slowtrain]

Its better to be paid.

[Llyranor]

IWD2 had some nice dialogue.

 

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=388691

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=388693

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=387319

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=431008

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=410788

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=402460

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=388694

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=391741

[Cantousent]

Don't forget the Dyksast blade. That was total comedy.

[Llyranor]

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=388682 :D

 

And more dead cats! http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/images/ph...x.asp?id=388686

Edited January 23, 2006 by Llyranor

[Jumjalum]

I must admit that, after HoW, I was a little disappointed at the lack of naked old ladies in IWD2.

[Judge Hades]

[Gromnir]

"As far as the story goes, you weren't "supposed" to feel anything specifically about the twins. They weren't written as bad guys or good guys, but as antagonists. I knew that some people would feel sympathetic for them and some people would think they were buttheads and I thought that was a good goal. "

 

why you think that were a good goal?

 

regardless, you leap past ambivalence and went straight to apathy. with iwd2 you not got no nameless one or exile for the player to get emotionally attached to. you gots a Party of up to six adventurers with necessarily ambiguous backgrounds and motivations as your protagonist... which is just fine if you manage to fill the void left by absence of an identifiable and memorable hero. do that by making us care 'bout npcs... 'specially the villains.

 

yeah, these is crpgs and in a perfect world the player should be able to be the hero of his own story/stories... woulda', shoulda' coulda'. lots of gameplay choices ain't 'nuff. gotta give the fans some reason to care 'bout your game/story beyond simply the next opportunity to level... and as far as we can tell, you can't write great dialogue for a generic good or evil party... at least we ain't seen anything that makes us think otherwise.

 

in absence of a identifiable protagonist, iwd2 shoulda' made the villains more compelling... not less.

 

btw, writing compelling dialogue is necessarily an exercise in ego. you gotta take risks to makes good dialogues. if your main concern is trying to avoid sounding hokie or clich

[Slowtrain]

AS long as the leveling is fun and intersting and gives me stuff to think about, I don't need dialogue. I can't imagine enhanced dialogue or a weepy arch-villian making the Ice Palace any more palatable.

[DemonKing]

I thought it was a pretty amazing acheivement given the development schedule, but it certainly wasn't as good as the original.

 

Pros: Nice 3E implementation (thank god they didn't go for the "hybrid" 2E/3E that was proposed at one stage), sub-races, great variety in party makeup, some well-designed areas.

 

Cons: Painful puzzles (especially on replaying - *cough* Fellwood *cough*), rehashed levels from the original (Dragon's Eye, Kulldahar, The Hand etc), some pre-patch problems (game stopping Dragon Eye bug, lack of heavy armour), too many darts of frost and not a lot of interesting loot unlike the first game, Music used too sparsely.

 

It was a decent game but don't expect miracles from something that was put together in such a short time frame.

[Slowtrain]

EVen the words Returning Frost Dart make me somewhat gassy. Also Aurilite Ice Axe. Also tiny after tiny rooms CRAMMED FULL OF 300 &@*% ENEMIES WHO ALL LOOK EXTACTLY THE SAME.

 

Gothmog the barbarian says: Why the $*#@ do we keep opening these doors?

 

Because we're adventuers and that's what adventurers do!

 

meh.

 

 

 

 

Where's my tribble got to now anyway?

[J.E. Sawyer]

Like I wrote, most people don't like my stories or the way I write dialogue, which is why I try to stay out of that aspect of game design now.

[Cantousent]

I agree with Gromnir in that I'd like to see you take a chance, Sawyer. Maybe carry on a bit. Your friends will support you anyhow and your detractors already criticise your work. To fear such irrelevant labels as "cliche" or "hokie" is pointless. To fear failure is unworthy.

[Llyranor]

Don't be discouraged by CrashGirl, she'd rather read a book if she wanted a story

 

IIRC, aren't you working on unique items for NWN2? Didn't you make those for IWD as well? I remember them being very nice. I always like unique items with nice, long descriptions. Makes the game lore more interesting.

 

Would you be able to divulge what specifically your role is re: NWN2?

Edited January 23, 2006 by Llyranor