New NWN2 Interview

[Llyranor]

To some extent. NWN2 should be turn-based, then all would be well in Llyranor land.

[Darque]

Oh please. I wish people would stop whining about this stuff.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Weiser_Cain]

Pretty disgusted ate the level cap, restricted forth class only for prc's, and the reason behind it. I'm already waiting until I get epic levels all in one premium pack, so maybe this will change by then (or I

[Judge Hades]

Um... okay.

[Darque]

Looks like you've met your match hades.

[Judge Hades]

Celerity 5 rocks, I hope when they make the Haste Spell they make it like that. BOOM! Also casting slow on the enemy as well with Haste up should have some interesting effects.

[Atreides]

Doesnt NWN have a hard difficulty setting?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, I put all gold into upgrading my sword and had immunity to fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to see difficulty settings based on different AI than tweaking the numbers (IWD replay style). Maybe in this case, the harder setting would have the enemies using disarm/trip to remove immunities from the character.

 

I was impressed by the orc shaman that cast simple spells like entangle, followed by the worg raiders that then attacked. After that I needed to rethink my rating of some of those spells.

 

Although it'll be harder and more time consuming for devs to implement things that way, adjusting different scripts or say craftier traps etc it'd be more enjoyable and rewarding for the players. They'd WANT to play at hard levels because it's fun. Maybe devs can have their fun making tough builds. I know there are a few D&D experts out there who know how to make impressive stuff.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Thats the good way to increase game difficulty. But it takes too much time and resources to implement unless a publisher wold be willing to fund a full 5 year development circle.

 

 

And good AI is real easy as a player to demand but it sure as **** isnt for the developer. Youll need to have a separate dedicated group of skilled programmers to do it and very few devs can afford that. It also doesnt help that the AI will have to work with a very small part of the processor power, as graphics and game mechanics must be prioritised

[Atreides]

Thats the good way to increase game difficulty. But it takes too much time and resources to implement unless a publisher wold be willing to fund a full 5 year development circle.

 

 

And good AI is real easy as a player to demand but it sure as **** isnt for the developer. Youll need to have a separate dedicated group of skilled programmers to do it and very few devs can afford that. It also doesnt help that the AI will have to work with a very small part of the processor power, as graphics and game mechanics must be prioritised

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about some hack pack or patch that modders can release to tweak AI?

[Diamond]

What about some hack pack or patch that modders can release to tweak AI?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It applies only to games that have tools for them and open resources (like NWN).

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Thats the good way to increase game difficulty. But it takes too much time and resources to implement unless a publisher wold be willing to fund a full 5 year development circle.

How complex is the AI for the monsters in NWN? This might just be my thick-headedness, but I've never noticed any of them respond to the way the battle is going and fundamentally alter strategy. Is it much more complex than just 'Heal if HP less than 25%, recast protection shield if it's stripped, blast PC with random spells'? The AI for henchman is surely much more difficult to get right (not that they always did, really. ).

 

I'm not a huge lover of combat in RPGs anyway, but I've never played an RPG that wouldn't benefit from fewer, more interesting fights. Atreides' idea of varied AI controlling the monsters sounds great to me. I'd also like to see sentient enemies run away or surrender when they're obviously losing. Then I could spare them. (Or not. )

[Kasoroth]

Oh please. I wish people would stop whining about this stuff. ASs long as the power is balanced with the game's challanges (it wasn't in the KOTOR series; but was mostly for HOTU and TOB) is all that should matter.

 

And, oh, before someone accuses of me being apowergaming munchkin I DARE you to play with me as DM. You'd be whining of their not being enough ph@t lewt.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree, balance is not the only thing that matters. In fact, in my opinion, the combat balance is much less important than the atmosphere and tone of the gameworld. The combat balance in Planescape: Torment was not really very good in my opinion, but it is one of my favorite games because the graphics, music, characters and dialogue really seem to fit the setting well and convey an appropriate mood.

 

Neverwinter Nights really didn't set the mood well at all. Neverwinter really just seemed like it could have been any generic city and it wouldn't have made a difference. Partly this was the repetitiveness of the tilesets, partly it was the abundance of barrels and chests with healing potions sitting untouched in a city of starving, plague infested beggars, and partly it was the fact that a bunch of high level characters handed off the task of saving the city to some new recruit. There were a lot of design decisions that sacrificed the integrity and logic of the setting in favor of a little convenience for the player. While it's nice to eliminate tedious elements, it should be done in a way that tries to minimize the loss of atmosphere.

 

In truth, it didn't really matter to me which game was more balanced for combat because that's not the primary aspect I look for in a game. Sure, it's nice if the combats are appropriately challenging, but that's not what will make or break a game for me.

 

If tons of magic items in every village pawnshop is appropriate to the setting (which it's not in Faerun, even though it is more magic heavy than many other D&D worlds) then I would be fine with that, but if it doesn't make sense for the setting, leave it out. I tend to prefer settings where magic is relatively rare and special, and most of your power comes from your character skill rather than your equipment, but I'm capable of enjoying high magic worlds as well, as long as it makes sense in the setting. Magic items and epic levels are really just a type of numeric inflation that's not really necessary.

 

As you noted, it's possible to make a balanced game of either style, but that doesn't mean that every game should go to epic levels and have tons of loot. If it's a game about travelling the planes in search of mighty artifacts to slay gods and Tanar'ri Lords by the dozen, then by all means include epic levels and ph@t lewt, but I'd like some games where I get to play a skilled but relatively ordinary character struggling to achieve extraordinary goals. I don't always want to roleplay a godling's rise to epic power, especially not over the course of a single 40 hour game.

 

-Kasoroth

Edited January 10, 2006 by Kasoroth

[Volourn]

I should point out the above post was perhaps the best, solid, logical, and fair criticism of some of the OC's weaknesses.

 

Good stuff, Kasoroth.

 

However, one point you made is mistaken:

 

 

"I disagree, balance is not the only thing that matters. In fact, in my opinion, the combat balance is much less important than the atmosphere and tone of the gameworld."

 

We were discussing combat balance and the like; not atmosphere and tone.

 

P.S. The Realms has magic shops that sell very powerful items. Aurora's anyone?

Edited January 10, 2006 by Volourn

[Kasoroth]

I should point out the above post was perhaps the best, solid, logical, and fair criticism of some of the OC's weaknesses.

 

Good stuff, Kasoroth.

 

However, one point you made is mistaken:

 

 

"I disagree, balance is not the only thing that matters. In fact, in my opinion, the combat balance is much less important than the atmosphere and tone of the gameworld."

 

We were discussing combat balance and the like; not atmosphere and tone.

 

P.S. The Realms has magic shops that sell very powerful items. Aurora's anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the topic of Ph@t Lewt and epic levels was brought up, and that has an impact on both game balance and atmosphere, so I don't think it's really appropriate to focus attention completely on one aspect and ignore the other when they are as strongly linked as they are.

 

It's very easy to add Ph@t Lewt to a game, but it's somewhat more difficult to make it both balanced in terms of combat AND fitting to the atmosphere. The prevalence of magic (in terms of items as well as higher level spells like Raise Dead and Resurrection) in a game world would naturally change the nature of the setting, and very often I've seen such things included as game mechanics but not really taken into consideration as an aspect of the world. Some people may not be bothered by this, but I find it to be extremely jarring.

 

About Forgotten Realms, yes it does have more magic than many other worlds, but not to the extent that it was represented in NWN. I'm not sure where my Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue ended up, but if I remember correctly most of the goods in there were not actually magical, they were just rare and exotic. She did have some kind of teleportation network for transporting them though, if I remember correctly. I think that was also based out of Waterdeep, and while goods probably could be delivered to small villages, it seems unlikely that the average small village smith would have (or be able to afford to buy or make) a plethora of magic weapons and armor.

 

While magic is well known, accepted and not particularly mysterious in Faerun, it's also not shown (in the novels anyway, at least the ones I read back in the late 80s, early 90s) as being anywhere near as plentiful as it was in NWN. BG1 was closer to how it was depicted in the novels, BG2:SoA was pushing the limits, and BG2:ToB and NWN really went overboard.

 

-Kasoroth

[Judge Hades]

Less loot the better. I want to earn my long sword +1 in a fight that will nearly kill off my entire party and take it from the smelly corpse of a half orc barbarian. We shouldn't even see permanent or multi use magic items til at least 5th to 6th level, and even then they should be used by those who we are going against.

[Volourn]

"While magic is well known, accepted and not particularly mysterious in Faerun, it's also not shown (in the novels anyway, at least the ones I read back in the late 80s, early 90s) as being anywhere near as plentiful as it was in NWN. BG1 was closer to how it was depicted in the novels, BG2:SoA was pushing the limits, and BG2:ToB and NWN really went overboard."

 

Eh. You shouldn't go by novels, relaly. And, no game, not even BG comes close to ph@t lewt levels. Afterall, in pnp it's strictly up to the DM. i've played FR campaigns where magic was rather rare and others where it grows on trees (almost literally!)

 

I don't worry about video games' treasure level' because IMO their all over the top. All that matters to me is if the combat stays relatively balanced and fun.

 

The biggest problem is that in pnp the Dm just needs enough variance in magic items to satisfy one party when CRPG dveeloeprs need enough to satisfy many, many players with different magic item desires.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

They should just go by what the story is trying o do. Does it make sense for this guy to have this item at this time so to speak. Does it make sense for that Half Orc barbarian who leads his motley crew to battle to have that long sword +1 and if so how did he get it.

 

At least that is how I run my fantasy campaigns.

[Volourn]

"They should just go by what the story is trying o do. Does it make sense for this guy to have this item at this time so to speak."

 

Absolutely agreed. 100% agreed. Sadly, no game that includes magical items does this 100%.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Volourn

[Gabrielle]

Well it should, how hard can it be to impliment it?

[Atreides]

I'm not a huge lover of combat in RPGs anyway, but I've never played an RPG that wouldn't benefit from fewer, more interesting fights.  Atreides' idea of varied AI controlling the monsters sounds great to me.  I'd also like to see sentient enemies run away or surrender when they're obviously losing.  Then I could spare them.   (Or not. )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah... right before you chase them into an ambush and they stab you in the face.

 

Talking about the ambush, scripting different game plans/strategies for teams of specific enemies/encounters could make things more interesting while saving effort compared to generic AI for units.

 

I think people would play short modules where the purpose was just to have satisfying party vs party fights. It'd be a chance to have people show what they can do with D&D, assuming of course they have the ability to implement their ideas, which is in itself an art.

[Darque]

Well it should, how hard can it be to impliment it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very, apparently

[Gabrielle]

Well it should, how hard can it be to impliment it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very, apparently

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A shame, truely.

[Pidesco]

Are Darque and Gabrielle turning into a kind of dynamic duo?

[Gabrielle]

:ph34r: