Japan.

[Lyric Suite]

He is suppose to be a kid without a shirt wearing metal greaves and gauntlets.

Was that so hard to see?

 

He?

 

Also, I

Edited December 18, 2005 by Lyric Suite

[Haitoku]

He is suppose to be a kid without a shirt wearing metal greaves and gauntlets.

Was that so hard to see?

 

He?

 

Also, I

[Lyric Suite]

Of course it's a he, are you blind or just narrow minded?

 

Well, at least we agree it's a it, i wouldn't classify that thing as something befitting a depiction of a real human being, even less that of a male...

 

Man, I'm afraid to touch your second comment.

It's sad to see that these kind of stereo types still live on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't get me wrong, normally i wouldn't be so hard on them if my fellow westerners would drop this absurd obsession and blind praise for a culture that is entirely retrograde and inferior to our own in many ways.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Lyric Suite

[Lyric Suite]

^ Words, nothing more.

 

If you really wanted to rebuke me, you would try to refute my accusations, rather then call me a fascist.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Lyric Suite

[Haitoku]

^ Words, nothing more.

 

If you really wanted to rebuke me, you would try to refute my accusations, rather then call me a fascist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hehe, you generalized on such a massive scale.

 

There is absolutely no way that you are correct.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Haitoku

[Volourn]

I smell bigotry and racism in this thread. 'Tis very sad.

[Lyric Suite]

Also, there is following of the Effeminate male in America and Europe.

 

Yes, a following entirely composed of women. In case you haven't noticed, there aren't a lot of straight boys listening to Nsync...

 

I know, it's pointless to argue with him.  Since he has probably closed his mind to any opinions that are different from his  own.

 

I haven't closed my mind, i just find the east to be nowhere near what it's crancked up if to be.

 

For instance, i happen to be a great admirer of the arts and i find the orient to be severly lacking compared to our own. If i start examining Japan and it's culture, do you think i'm going to find a Caravaggio, a Goethe or a Brahms anywhere?

 

I'm just being frank here, that's all...

Edited December 18, 2005 by Lyric Suite

[GuardianLegend]

^ Words, nothing more.

 

If you really wanted to rebuke me, you would try to refute my accusations, rather then call me a fascist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know how to refute your accusations since we seem to divide the world through entirely different methods. How can I defend Japan as a whole if I don't even agree with you that there is such a thing as a Japanese whole, beyond that of a legal entity?

 

Whereas you essentially connect people together through geography, possibly race, and superficial elements of culture, I divide the world through political ideology. Which I think is a much more effective way of seeing true groups of people. If you live in America, surely you know how divided the country is on President Bush. And if anyone pays attention to global politics, you can see how the bulk of the human race strongly dislikes Bush. Does it make sense to connect a British Tory with an American Democrat? Or an Italian Communist? No, I don't think it does. Just because they are all "Western" means nothing, really. That Democrat, and that Communist, probably have more in common with a Japanese leftwing socialist fellow than they have with their fellow countrymen.

 

I should take back the "fascist" insult, though. I don't know enough about your views to know if that's a good fit for you. But if you're not one, you might want to consider becoming one. Seems like it'd be a good fit.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I hope for your sake you are talking about video games, and even then, it's a no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well since this is computers and consoles and not WOT I'd say there is a better than average chace of that

 

While your bigotry is nice and all, It dosnt replace the truth.

[213374U]

Japan is the land of innovation. 

Proof, please.

 

 

I should take back the "fascist" insult, though. I don't know enough about your views to know if that's a good fit for you. But if you're not one, you might want to consider becoming one. Seems like it'd be a good fit.

That kinda proves how little you know about fascism. Please stop being so openly ignorant.

 

Also, while it's nice and all that you are trying to disregard the obvious retrogradation of the Japanese culture (take, for instance, the role of women in their society) by attempting to make distinctions based on the political outlook of the individual Japanese, the fact that their society, their art, and their history prove what Lyric is saying remains.

 

So, whatever.

[Lyric Suite]

@ GuardianLegend:

 

I don't fancy politics and i generally don't concern myself with it, if i can help it.

 

To me, strands of human civilization are defined by culture and little more. There's nothing 'superficial' about it, culture it's the very identity of any group of people...

Edited December 18, 2005 by Lyric Suite

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You do realise that anime and the picture of Varn are how Japan see's the west dont you? it's not a reflection on their culture at all and it's not how they see themselves.

 

Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress.

[julianw]

I don't like Japan. Don't like anime, don't like their childish culture and i don't like their over-rated art and martial history. Infact, the orient as a whole it's over-rated in my book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder how much you actually know about the oriental culture to make such a statement. I may be wrong but seems like you have only been exposed (too much for your liking of course) to oriental culture from a very limited perspective. Anime isn't exactly considered high class art in Asia either but only entertainment most popular among teenagers. Nobody with a decent amount of education takes martial arts movies and novels seriously either. They are just escapist entertainments set in a fantasy world very much like the western fantasy fictions.

Though I will say both anime and the martial arts genre have their roots deep in the Asian culture and it takes a great deal of knowledge of the region's history and its culture to fully appreciate them just like it's impossible for a Chinese boy to watch and read Lotr and then becomes a Tolkien expert.

 

Don't get me wrong, normally i wouldn't be so hard on them if my fellow westerners would drop this absurd obsession and blind praise for a culture that is entirely retrograde and inferior to our own in many ways.

Again I seriously doubt you know enough about the oriental culture to make such a statement. If you will elaborate please, then I would like to know exactly how a culture could be inferior to another. By what universal standard have you made such a judgment I wonder? I can certainly understand if it's your personal preference and seems that you are quite baffled by the fact that many western kids these days obsessing over the oriental culture. I think it's simply the result of globalization and a better understanding of a culture other than the one you were born into, in my unworthy opinion, helps humans a great deal growing into unity and peace. That is why I try to absorb as much western culture as possible with the equal enthusiasm those European anime fanboys have shown. In the end, I believe multiculturalism to be a good thing. Even if you disagree with the populace's tastes (since when is popular opinion the better opinion anyway?), it's no reason for you to call a culture inferior to another when you simply don't know enough about the culture to make such a judgment in the first place.

[Gromnir]

Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok, first of all, we don't know how this turned into an us v. them thread, but as for Gromnir, we has been to japan twice and loved the culture and people... so our loathing of anime and japanese games is not a condemnation of japanese culture in general.

 

second, we call bs. there is more wacky dressed teens and young adults in tokyo than any other place we ever seen... and no, if you go to california you will not typically see people dressed like varn... save for on halloween, and then only if you is visiting the castro district.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mkreku]

And now somebody complained about pedophilic and other perverted tendencies in some anime. Ask yourself, why does it get translated and exported in such amount to your country?

No. The question is why do they make so much of it. I mean, it comes from the same nation where they sell underage girls' worn underpants in vending machines, I figure the burden of 'proving their innocence' lies on their part. Sure, you can try to put the blame on the importers of the games, but what if this really is what comes from Japan? Why would they choose the perverted games and not import the good games (if such games existed)? Makes no sense, not from a business perspective, not from any perspective.

[Haitoku]

Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok, first of all, we don't know how this turned into an us v. them thread, but as for Gromnir, we has been to japan twice and loved the culture and people... so our loathing of anime and japanese games is not a condemnation of japanese culture in general.

 

second, we call bs. there is more wacky dressed teens and young adults in tokyo than any other place we ever seen... and no, if you go to california you will not typically see people dressed like varn... save for on halloween, and then only if you is visiting the castro district.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think he was just trying to say that some of Japans artwork represents their view of other cultures.

 

I happen to live in Long Beach California. Yes, I do live near the beach. Yes, people will walk out without a shirt on a hot day, Hell, I do it myself. God, there must be something wrong with me!

 

t's not elitism when it's the truth!

 

It's a simple fact that all Japanese games are RPGs where you play an angtsy teenager and all Western games are FPS where you play a mute macho hero.

*

 

If we generalized, yup this is definitely true.

 

Yes, i started this thread as a funny result of my suprising discovery of game library.

 

Threads have a habit of exploding into something much bigger in this place don't they... :ph34r:

[Gromnir]

"I think he was just trying to say that some of Japans artwork represents their view of other cultures."

 

nope. what he said was:

 

"Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress."

 

sp made it abundantly clear that in california varn's dress would hardly be unique

[Haitoku]

Actually, what he said was...

 

You do realise that anime and the picture of Varn are how Japan see's the west dont you? it's not a reflection on their culture at all and it's not how they see themselves.

 

Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress.

 

Quote peoples entire post when all of it is relevant.

 

As for the about picture...

 

I can't say much on it.

It's just the style there using, for the world SE created.

Everything else is pretty much based on opinion. He might a look a bit homosexual to me (just like Tidus did initialy), but androgynous? Just... no.

 

In either case, whatever he looks like won't matter in the end. In the context of his story he will be an incredibly different person.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Haitoku

[Surreptishus]

how does somebody look homosexual? That guy definitely has an androgynous look about him.

[Gromnir]

Actually, what he said was...

 

You do realise that anime and the picture of Varn are how Japan see's the west dont you? it's not a reflection on their culture at all and it's not how they see themselves.

 

Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress.

 

Quote peoples entire post when all of it is relevant.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

lord only knows how this makes your initial statement more relevant or accurate. did sp say that anime is a representation/realization of a culture other than their own? sure he did, but try not to distract yourself. he also noted that in California people dress as weird or more wacky than varn. So, when Gromnir noted that such an observation was wrong, how did we mislead?

 

btw, is not like you quoted our entire post neither, is it? you quote relevant. simply quoting an entire post is

[Haitoku]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

SP said that the Japanese model their characters from their views on the western world.

Including Varn. You only quoted him saying that people in California people dress just as wacky.

 

 

"I think he was just trying to say that some of Japans artwork represents their view of other cultures."

 

nope. what he said was:

 

"Go to California and you will see people dressed like Varn and worse. And this isnt just for conventions but every day dress."

 

You said that... I was correct you see, SP was trying to say that. See, completely relevant.

 

And I'll leave it at that, you obviously made up your mind on the androgynous topic.

[Gromnir]

Yeah, I agree. Square has gone too far trying to garner for female players. Tidus wasn't exactly bad, god knows I've heard more than enough whine about "butch lesbian" or "freakin andro", but Varn's outfit and look doesn't exactly tell of great character. Sheesh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

show just the head of varn to 100 adults who has no familiarity with anime or japanese gamez... ask 'em to describe. we bet more than 50% would note that the character were female.

 

 

 

and'cause it seems like hait needs a little more help...

 

"I think he was just trying to say that some of Japans artwork represents their view of other cultures."

 

he weren't JUST saying that japan's "artwork" represents other cultures. see, you is paraphrasing sp while completely ignoring the second half of his post. naughty. sp also observed that varn wackiness would not be outta place in cali... which we will again note is incorrect.

 

"In either case, whatever he looks like won't matter in the end. In the context of his story he will be an incredibly different person."

 

Gromnir might be able to deal with japanese

[Haitoku]

he weren't JUST saying that japan's "artwork" represents other cultures. see, you is paraphrasing sp while completely ignoring the second half of his post. naughty. sp also observed that varn wackiness would not be outta place in cali... which we will again note is incorrect.

 

Is that picture of Varn not artwork?

 

No I was not paraphrasing, my comment applied to that as well. That is artwork, it's their view of another culture. Yes, California is another culture, yes some people do dress in a similar fashion.

 

It's not common, I'll say that. But it is there.

 

Gromnir might be able to deal with japanese

[kirottu]

And now somebody complained about pedophilic and other perverted tendencies in some anime. Ask yourself, why does it get translated and exported in such amount to your country?

No. The question is why do they make so much of it. I mean, it comes from the same nation where they sell underage girls' worn underpants in vending machines, I figure the burden of 'proving their innocence' lies on their part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why should people from different cultural background 'proving their innocence' to you?

[Gromnir]

"No I was not paraphrasing, my comment applied to that as well."

 

am not sure that you even know what you were saying anymore, 'cause you keeps chasing tail. in any event, your continued attempt to argue this silliness includes an ongoing failure to recognize the reality that while there is people who dress in a ridiculous fashion in LA, there is just as many, if not more so, that dress worse in tokyo, and varn's dress in cali would raise just as many eyebrows in socal as it would in japan. so suggesting that the artwork reflects japanese views of other cultures more than their own seems suspect to say the least.

 

heck, wanna review the entire progression you has made on this issue... start with the absence of shirt nonsense and work from there? you has really messed yourself up in this thread.

 

"Is that picture of Varn not artwork?"

 

if you say so. art is such a subjective term.

 

as to japanese game story... you gotta buy into the anime frame of mind to choke down japanese game story. the writers of japanese game stories and anime stories seems to be in a competition with each other to come up with increasingly implausible scenarios, 'cause the more bizarre a plot is, the better it is, right? sure, you might be able to reduce 80% of all anime stories down to Godzilla or Pinocchio plots, but they make Godzilla some quasi-intelligent plant spores that is dropping to earth and is threatening to kill all animal life on the planet... somehow that makes the Godzilla story "kewl." a monster that ultimately man created in his arrogance and his lack of deference to Nature