Bloodlines is making me Angry

[Child of Flame]

I just started another game, and having not played as a Gangrel, Brujah, or Ventrue yet, I chose a Gangrel because they are more suited to brawling (claws!). I built him to be a rather sullen fellow, more suited to hunting in alleyways for lone humans than barhopping and schmoozing with the ladeez. I planned on lowering his Humanity all the way by the end of the game, and just playing him as a badass in general, using Intimidation for any situations that needed words.

 

Then I realized that if I don't invest in Persuasion I'll miss out on a lot of XP and monies just in Santa Monica

conning Copper and working things out between Jeanette and Therese.

 

 

Even worse, having fought all the thugs at the Meth Lab with my bare fists, I was running low on blood when I came to the realization that there are no humans that walk down alleys in Santa Monica (are there?).

 

If I was still playing my Nossie this wouldn't be a problem, I'd just hit the sewers and look for rats, but my Gangrel seems to be above such things.

 

Also, and this is just a pet peeve, considering that Gangrels are supposed to walk on all fours (not because they have to, but because they can) it's frustrating that the only way to do so is to crouch, which is just a little bit faster method of locomotion than walking.

 

I'm really liking the beginning game with high levels of intimidation though, the wimpy guy in the suit who usually tells you to bugger off outside Mercurio's apartment was all but cowering in front of me, and I managed to mug him for his watch. :ph34r: I can't wait to see what having no Humanity does.

[Janmanden]

The gangrel also seems to be the favored Black Sabbath clan...make them proud.

 

Even worse, having fought all the thugs at the Meth Lab with my bare fists, I was running low on blood when I came to the realization that there are no humans that walk down alleys in Santa Monica (are there?). 

 

There are humans meandering everywhere even in dark alleys, but be a little bold and do them on the streets when noone else is around, will ya?

[Hurlshort]

People go down alleys...you just have to stalk them for a bit. I also like the hospital for a bit of blood, that philandering surgeon is always good for a refill.

[Arkan]

Hmm...maybe I should give this game another go through with a gun and run character...

[Calax]

gangrel you just brawl and only pull out the claws when you need to. Strenght and brawl will be your main attributes but get a little in persuasion and sneaking. More often than not if you just brawl your way to heaven you're going to spend more time recovering than fighting. Trust me once you get out of Santa Monica things the MUCH easier...

 

Gangrel are the only ones capable of fighting a Warewolf strait up. In the game you can't (the warewolf is invincible) but thats the sort of character you want to make. A warewolf bloodsucker.

[Atreides]

I gave up after I got trapped in the Santa Monica warehouse. Basically I snuck through the rafters, planted the bomb and planned to gtfo, running past everything with the Toreador's speed blood ability out of the warehouse loading bay doors.

 

It turned out tha the doors had been locked sometime and basically I got stuck there with tons of gun toting goons and nowhere to escape - not even back through the rafters.

 

Nice game though.

[Musopticon?]

^There was supposed to be certain characters who burst through the doors and who you had to fight. Did you load and try again?

Edited November 28, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Atreides]

He was? Anyway I had a few quicksaves leading up to getting into the office undetected through the rafters. My original plan was to take a straight route out of the bay doors back to the starting point as I mentioned, but I ended up trying to go through a door at the back (goons blazing behind me). It ended up in a kind of dead-end fenced up thing with a pretty hard door to lockpick, and the 2nd vampire that I needed to defeat.

 

It was pretty funny - I'm frantically looking for a way to escape and I find a door (yay!) but it turns out to be a room with some shotgun shells.

[Dhruin]

Does it really matter if you miss out on two or three XP points?

[Child of Flame]

When you need them to beef up firearms skills like mad in the end game it does.

 

Do you know how impossible it is to win that game with a pure melee character?

[Atreides]

Wait, so sword-weilding Ventrue or Toreador vampires aren't viable builds?

[alanschu]

I've always used guns at some capacity (I have played as Toreador and Ventrue), so I'm not too sure. But there are points where I would think ranged weapons would be rather useful!

[Child of Flame]

More or less yeah.

 

EDIT: This is in response to Atriedes post.

 

The problem isn't that the melee weapons aren't capable of killing the last two bosses, but that you will have to switch on Godmode to do it successfully, because otherwise, dead.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Child of Flame

[Atreides]

You must fight them? I thought the Toreador with heaps of charm could turn them gay or something.

[Child of Flame]

I wish.

 

You have to fight at least one of them, maybe both, depending on ending.

[Darque]

so no "fallout-ish" talk your way out of it ending?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Then I realized that if I don't invest in Persuasion I'll miss out on a lot of XP and monies just in Santa Monica

conning Copper and working things out between Jeanette and Therese.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This doesn't mean the game isn't built for Gangrels. It just means some character builds can go trough certain things better than others, or get different rewards and results. You could have an entirely feral Gangrel or a smooth talking Gangrel - but you will be able to play trough as either. Even without Persuasion, stealth, intimidation, bribing and brute forcing your way into things are quite possible.

 

If you want to see how a Gangrel can be developed into a well rounded character (even with Persuasion) I suggest reading this guide, unfortunately with some spoilers:

 

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/vampire_tmb.txt

 

 

so no "fallout-ish" talk your way out of it ending?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unfortunately, no.

And it suffers from the same Throne of Bhaal, Knights of the Old Republic and Deus Ex syndrome: different endings are only determined by what you do in the later stage(s).

 

[Spider]

More or less yeah.

 

EDIT:  This is in response to Atriedes post. 

 

The problem isn't that the melee weapons aren't capable of killing the last two bosses, but that you will have to switch on Godmode to do it successfully, because otherwise, dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have a very different experience. Maybe Gangrel's suck in the end fights (haven't played one), but I beat the game with a brawl-based Brujah. Using only my fists I took them both down.

 

Although I don't know how it'd work without Celerity though.

 

Besides, one can always side with the prince to get away from one fight and the boss you'll have to fight in that case can be mellowed a little with a flamethrower (about 50% or so of the health with two full clips).

 

All in all I find that melee-based characters have the easiest time in the boss fights. But maybe that depends on how well developed your FPS-reflex are (mine = not so much).

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Maybe Gangrel's suck in the end fights (haven't played one), but I beat the game with a brawl-based Brujah. Using only my fists I took them both down.

 

By comparison, Brujah are one walking can of whoop ass. The reason why Gangrels tend to be on the sucky side is that Animalism and Protean are pretty worthless in most cases, with Fortitude being the best discipline they have. Animalism is only worth it for Level 4 (Bloodsuckers' Communion) and Protean is only worth it in Levels 4 and 5 (Hunter of Night and War Form respectively). Then again, a Gangrel with High Fortitude and War Form can shred most things thrown at it, moreso with the adequate boosts in Brawl and Strength.

 

Although I don't know how it'd work without Celerity though.

 

The best way is to invest in Fortitude and combat skills. Hard but definetely not impossible to succeed.

 

Besides, one can always side with the prince to get away from one fight and the boss you'll have to fight in that case can be mellowed a little with a flamethrower (about 50% or so of the health with two full clips).

 

True, but whatever ending path you choose there will quite a bit of combat regardless.

 

All in all I find that melee-based characters have the easiest time in the boss fights. But maybe that depends on how well developed your FPS-reflex are (mine = not so much).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Melee works great (especially with Disciplines that allow you to hit hard and fast) but there were some ocasions where I found it wasn't enough.

 

 

One in particular is when you face the Sheriff's second form, the Chiropteran Behemoth, because he flies around most of the time and you need a firearm to hit him while he's up there. I could always turn the searchlights to him so he'd be blinded and fall down, then mow him down with melee attacks, but the searchlights seemed to have a 'recharging' period so back it was to the Lassiter Killmatic or Colt Anaconda.

 

Another situation was with Ming Xiao's Chtulhuesque form. While I don't think my reflexes were particularly bad, I always carried some firearm and the Flamethrower to soften her up a bit, then hacked her to bits with melee.

 

Edited November 28, 2005 by Role-Player

[Hell Kitty]

Wait, so sword-weilding Ventrue or Toreador vampires aren't viable builds?

 

I played a melee Toreador character, but then I cheated to get through the end. Of course, I'd have probably cheated anyway because the end is a great big pile of poop.

 

Edit: problem solved.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Hell Kitty

[Atreides]

Ah, poor Hell Kitty No reloads? I was surprised that the game kept tons of previous quicksaves.

[Hell Kitty]

Ah, poor Hell Kitty   No reloads?  I was surprised that the game kept tons of previous quicksaves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I forgot all about the bazillions of saves. I just loaded one from back at the

Hollowbrook

and this time I was properly given the quest from Lacroix. Yay!

[Atreides]

Yay ^_^

[Spider]

True, but whatever ending path you choose there will quite a bit of combat regardless.

 

Quite a lot of enemies at any rate. You don't HAVE to actually fight most of them, stealth gets you very far if that's your game (it doesn't even ahve to be Obfuscate, in fact in some places ordinary stealth actually works better). But yeah, there is much fighting.

 

But the fighting leading up to the bosses isn't exactly difficult, so in regards to what character builds can do what it doesn't really count.

 

One in particular is when you face the Sheriff's second form, the Chiropteran Behemoth, because he flies around most of the time and you need a firearm to hit him while he's up there. I could always turn the searchlights to him so he'd be blinded and fall down, then mow him down with melee attacks, but the searchlights seemed to have a 'recharging' period so back it was to the Lassiter Killmatic or Colt Anaconda.

 

 

Here is where the FPS reflexes come in. On my first playthrough I tried going after the beast with firearms, but I'd never hit it while it was in the air, and when it was on the ground I had a nice gardening tool for it. To be honest though, my inability to hit it had more to do with my underwhelming computer than my own ability (although I will admit I'm not the best when it comes to hitting moving objects).

 

[Child of Flame]

Then I realized that if I don't invest in Persuasion I'll miss out on a lot of XP and monies just in Santa Monica

conning Copper and working things out between Jeanette and Therese.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This doesn't mean the game isn't built for Gangrels. It just means some character builds can go trough certain things better than others, or get different rewards and results. You could have an entirely feral Gangrel or a smooth talking Gangrel - but you will be able to play trough as either. Even without Persuasion, stealth, intimidation, bribing and brute forcing your way into things are quite possible.

 

If you want to see how a Gangrel can be developed into a well rounded character (even with Persuasion) I suggest reading this guide, unfortunately with some spoilers:

 

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/vampire_tmb.txt

 

 

so no "fallout-ish" talk your way out of it ending?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unfortunately, no.

And it suffers from the same Throne of Bhaal, Knights of the Old Republic and Deus Ex syndrome: different endings are only determined by what you do in the later stage(s).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

GameFAQs doesn't allow direct linking.

 

Things have gotten better now. My strength and brawling attributes are both at four now, and my protean discipline is also at four. I am mowing pretty much everything down. On the Elizabeth Dane, I killed every single officer for the first time, and only had to take cover once. It was amusing having LaCroix tell me I was even more wreckless than the Sabaat.

 

I have a new problem though, I can't seem to get my Humanity below three no matter how many bad options I choose and how many humans I kill. Is it supposed to be this way or have I hit some bug or other?