360 games even more expensive than Xbox ones

[LoneWolf16]

I would gladly spend $100 on a well developed long game, you know something of BG 2 length with NWN 2's or KotOR's graphics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

$100...

 

Either you have cash to throw around, you're exaggerating, or you're a twisted ****. (kidding)

 

Come on now, that's a tad bit expensive.

 

Movies cost $20 on DVD and $5-15 at the theater...plus, they're much more expensive than video games to produce.

 

Games aren't doing too badly at the current prices. I remember it being said that Jade Empire sold some 600,000 copies...30,000,000 dollars right there. They don't seem to be hurting too badly.

[alanschu]

Movies have avenues of income that go way beyond the movie theater.

 

 

The majority of the money made for a movie is with the DVD sales nowadays.

 

According to John Buchanan, the University Liasion for Electronic Arts, the total revenue of video games is more than the box office returns. But it doesn't even come close to touching the DVD sales alone, let alone combined with the box office returns.

 

 

The 600,000 * $50 also only works if all copies of the game were sold at $50.

 

 

On a final note, the target market of movies is much larger than the target market of video games.

 

Their volume far far far faaaaaaaaar exceeds that of video game sales.

 

 

 

Having said that, movies are the exact same way. A few exceptional movies carries the load of many movies that do not make a profit. It too is a gamblers market, where movies are made under the hope that they do well. Many have argued that this has been just as bad for the movie industry, resulting in increased cliches and less innovative ideas.

 

Many movies do not make profits in Hollywood. It's just that the select few can be exceptionally successful and can carry the load. Just like video games.

Edited November 9, 2005 by alanschu

[LoneWolf16]

Movies have avenues of income that go way beyond the movie theater.

 

 

The majority of the money made for a movie is with the DVD sales nowadays.

 

According to John Buchanan, the University Liasion for Electronic Arts, the total revenue of video games is more than the box office returns.  But it doesn't even come close to touching the DVD sales alone, let alone combined with the box office returns.

 

 

The 600,000 * $50 also only works if all copies of the game were sold at $50.

 

 

On a final note, the target market of movies is much larger than the target market of video games.

 

Their volume far far far faaaaaaaaar exceeds that of video game sales.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All valid and argument destroying points. Good on you. But even 600,000 copies at $30 is 18 Mil. I'd like to think that covers development costs and turns a profit.

[alanschu]

I added a bit to my previous post, not that it affects any of your points in your latest post.

 

 

I believe metadigital has sources to the average cost of game development. I can't really look for them at the moment because I should be writing an essay instead of posting this

 

It probably does cover the development costs. I think (also like movies) a problem with the current model is that the bulk of that money goes to the publisher, rather than the developer.

[Spider]

All valid and argument destroying points. Good on you. But even 600,000 copies at $30 is 18 Mil. I'd like to think that covers development costs and turns a profit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The developers don't get $30 for a game that sells for $50.

 

According to Greg Costikyan, writing for the escapist:

 

"If you are relying on publisher funding, you are highly unlikely to achieve a royalty rate of more than 15% (which is based on wholesale price less MDF - typically more like 7% of the actual consumer dollar)."

 

7% is a lot less. That's $3.50 per unit shipped. In the case of JE that would be $2,100,000.

 

JE is a bad example to use with those numbers though, since Bioware financed the game themselves their take would be considerably higher. But for most independent developers (like Obsidian or the late Troika games) $3.50 per game is the reality.

 

Edit: In response to alanschu in the post above, that article says this about the costs of games:

 

"Today, if you want a title that will be taken seriously by the retailers - an A-level title - your minimum buy-in is $5m, and $10m for a triple-A title is common. With the next generation of console hardware, the talk is of $20m budgets - not as something that will be unusual, but typical."

 

Note however that developers who rely on publisher funding will get the whole dev cycle paid for, they just won't make a profit until their negoitated share goes above their initial funding.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Spider

[Darque]

wow...

 

I guess that makes it pretty obvious game developers aren't in it for the money.

 

Now I think I have less patience for people who attack devs over their games.

[alanschu]

I've heard that game development can be crazy fun, but it's not the software engineering vocation that nets you the big bux!

 

Nevertheless I'm steamrolling right into self-induced poverty! :D

[Darque]

You're going into game design Alan?

[mkreku]

Jade Empire debuted in Sweden at 549:-, but only a few weeks later it hit the bargain bins with a price of 299:-. It didn't do too well in Sweden, I assume.

 

Still, 299 SEK is quite a lot of money, and it should be totally possible to sell a game for that amount and make a decent profit. It feels like something must be seriously wrong with the game industry when a game costs 549 SEK and developers still only get $3.50 (appr. 28 SEK).

[alanschu]

You're going into game design Alan?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Either that or programming. I prefer design though as it's a bit more creative.

 

Bioware is a member of my University's Industrial Internship Program and they plan on taking 4 people from the program as an intern for 16 months. Given I live in Edmonton it's a natural choice.

 

I spoke with Kevin Barrett at the "meet and greet" and had pretty good interaction with him. Apparently they are looking more for design people, so hopefully that bodes well for me. I'm currently planning an RPG adventure for NWN2, but I'm going to quickly pound out a "prologue" type demo for it with NWN to get more familiar with NWScript. Apparently Dragon Age is also going with NWScript as well, so it might be useful.

 

Electronic Arts is also part of it, and while I've heard horror stories about "evil working hours" I'm still a single guy with no life. Given the internship has a fixed time that cannot be longer 16 months, even if it's a large workload, I have an out At worst I come out with 5 years of work experience They did express interest in me for a January placement, but it's only for 8 months so I turned them down.

 

I have a friend that just got a job at Bioware, and he put in a good word for me, so hopefully that helps. He said that with the recent merger he expects Bioware to be hiring for the next couple of years, so I'm actually pretty optimistic.

 

If I'm unable to get an internship at a game company though, there's plenty of other excellent companies that take part in the program. In my spare time I will continue to get familiar with NWScript (hopefully my module for NWN2 will be out by then...pending NWN2's release) as well as Unreal Script. My friend said he'd even be willing to work on an Unreal mod with me too (he made a mod for Half-Life 2...Source Racer, which pretty much got him his job at Bioware).

 

 

I'm actually planning on being pretty picky upon graduation. I have an interest in AI (which Bioware said they're looking for interns to work with AI), and if I cannot get into any of the jobs that I want, I'll probably go for my Masters in Artificial Intelligence.

 

 

And no, I'm not usually this planned. You should see my bedroom!

[mkreku]

You should see my bedroom!

No thanks!

 

 

 

 

Oh, you were talking to Darque! Sorry, I'll step out. Continue with the sickening flirtation

[Child of Flame]

****blocker.

[alanschu]

Haha.

 

Freudian slip I swear!

[Darque]

Alan, that is awesome

 

I hope you get the position you want

[alanschu]

Thanks!

[Darque]

[Surreptishus]

This seems liek a spastic derailment - sorry. Sony put out a patch that removes the rootkit problem. The rootkit is of benefit to some people though as it allows hiding of cheat programs so WoW players can "hax" without the warden finding out

[metadigital]

Sony have just hilighted an easy h4x0rz0rz for every WoW (or any online gaming franchise) script kiddy to use.

 

Can. Worms. Floor.

[Darque]

Sucktastic

[mkreku]

Who cares if Xbox 360 games are more expensive?

 

Check this out: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139702.html

 

200+ Xbox titles playable from the start! That's good enough for me.

[Judge Hades]

Agreed.

[Darque]

Who cares if Xbox 360 games are more expensive?

 

Check this out: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139702.html

 

200+ Xbox titles playable from the start! That's good enough for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Not a single one I had on my list o' games either.

 

Microsoft can keep their Hexbox 1.5

 

Looks like Sony may get my money again after all.

[Kalfear]

Who cares if Xbox 360 games are more expensive?

 

Check this out: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139702.html

 

200+ Xbox titles playable from the start! That's good enough for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Not a single one I had on my list o' games either.

 

Microsoft can keep their Hexbox 1.5

 

Looks like Sony may get my money again after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

heh, welp its got 4 of my games listed in that list so thats kinda cool

 

But its the games coming out that make me want the XBox 360, rather then the games already released on old XBox.

 

Definately will pick XBox 360 up once price drops in ayear or so.

 

Which is good as I try not to give Sony any of my money if at all possible at the best of times!

[Darque]

Well, to be honest there are a few games on there that intrest me, but each and every one I already own on the PS2.

 

The games I'd actually get a Hexbox for (Morrowind and KotOR for example) sadly aren't there. <_<

[Kalfear]

Well, to be honest there are a few games on there that intrest me, but each and every one I already own on the PS2.

 

The games I'd actually get a Hexbox for (Morrowind and KotOR for example) sadly aren't there.  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, K1 and 2 are there.

 

Look under Star Wars: Knights of Old Republic heading

 

as is Jade Empire

 

and no surprise Morrowwind not there really, it was released originally in 96. Just to outta date.