Things that went wrong with this game

[Arclam]

There is a difference between incomplete and shallow. KOTOR's story was fairly obvious (and fairly unoriginal) and was less intersting to play though again than KOTOR II was.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Arclam

[maia]

Well, I have just finished KOTOR2 and on the whole I have to say that I enjoyed it slightly more than the original, which I also liked a lot. Yes, the storyline was incomplete, but way more interesting and personally I felt that KOTOR1's storyline was also teeming with plotholes:

 

1. the much maligned Bastila thing on Taris,

2. the fact that nobody recognised Revan's face. Yes, there was the mask, but s/he wouldn't have been able to wear it as a padawan and the Republic newscasts certainly would have broadcasted the old personal images.

3. why did s/he leave the starmaps intact for the opponents to find,

4. what was the deal with the Rakatan animation on Kashyyk that hinted that Revan might have forseen the events of the game,

5. what where the reasons for their fall in the first place and did it occur before, during or after the Manadalorian war

6. how did the Jedi Masters intend to deal with the Mandalorians if Revan's solution was such a mistake. Not that part 2 answered it either...

7. why did Revan use the Starforge so sparingly and what were their ultimate plans with it

8. Bastila's fall. Not that it happened, but how and why. How did she go from hating Malak so much that it threatened her Jedi detachment to serving him? From her pride and feeling of superiority to becoming a cringing apprentice? Shouldn't she have decided instead that she was the only one powerful enough to take down Malak and using the Dark Side offered the only hope of doing so?

9. The stupid "flip-flop" schtick at the temple, which pretty much invalidated every choice offered previously.

10. Revan never truly got confronted with the results of their actions, never got to learn the reasons for anything they have done before the mindwipe. Without that there could be no true redemption, IMHO. For me it was the single greatest weakness of part 1 and I hoped that part 2 would deal with it. And in a way it did, though using a different character. I still would have preferred Revan in that role, though.

 

 

Also, I feel that the villain (and there really was only one despite the misleading title) of KOTOR2 was much more interesting and compelling than the Jawless Wonder with his stupid laugh :D. Even his great voice and his nice penultimate speech: "conqueror, saviour, you will never find peace", etc. couldn't make up for his shallowness and cheesiness.

 

The planets are also better on the whole, particulary the many choices that matter, better quests, etc. OTOH I certainly liked the first "around Telos" sequence much less than Taris and found Dantooine in part 2 somewhat dull. OTOH, Dxun-Onderon sequences, Nar-Shadaa and the cave on Korriban were all superb. It didn't even disappoint me much that Korriban was otherwise so empty and abbreviated (and it was my favourite planet from part 1). It added to the spooky atmosphere IMHO. I also liked the Citadel station battle sequence more than Unknown world, though the sub-boss fight was a disappointment. Malachor was much worse than the Star Forge, granted, but final confrontation with the main villain much better.

 

Generally, I adored that KOTOR2 allowed you to really roleplay the character, to express the reasons for past actions and a choice to stand by those reasons or reject them. _And_ then to follow it up with new actions that ultimately matter. That was great and allowed me to bond with the PC much more than in part 1, even though I much prefer the _idea_ of Revan.

 

It was also great how NPCs really became involved and didn't sit on their behinds waiting for you to save them single-handedly.

 

Party interaction. Hm... I liked the new and interesting things they did - influence, snippets of NPC interaction on the Hawk, etc. But I think that this stuff needs to be developped further - depending on the Charisma score you should have had options to lie to the NPCs, fake the sympathy to gain Influence and when your Influence with them becomes high enough also to successfully defend the actions the given NPC otherwise tends to dislike and gain further influence from _that_. I also feel that radical change of alignment of an NPC should be worthy of a side-event or at least an extra dialogue.

Regarding the snippets of interaction between NPCs when the PC wasn't present, I feel that they should have unlocked new dialogue options. It was frustrating not be able to discuss some of the things that occured. Generally, I'd prefer to also see more of the location-tied and perhaps even level-tied dialogue from part1 as well as optional NPC side-events or better yet, sidequests, some of which could be location-based and some influence-based.

 

Radio/Force contact by absent party NPCs was very immersion-building, I loved that..

 

I also feel that they should have had fewer party NPCs and used the resources to extend the party-NPC interaction. They have stretched themselves too thin, IMHO.

 

I know it is controversial, but I also greatly enjoyed the "splitting up" segments. It allowed almost the whole team to contribute, so I didn't have to wonder why the game forced me to ferry some of those slackers around and it also let me learn to know them. I do feel that more discussion of those segments with the PC afterwards was in order though.

 

Where part 1 shines is combat, general polish and stability. KOTOR2 would restart my computer or show me a blue screen of death every 2 hours of play or so and once corrupted a save. Can't say anything about graphics, played part1 on a much worse computer. Sad, isn't it? Part 2's combat was even easier, despite all innovations. Only the Mira segments and the final fight were any challenge for me with my light sentinel/watchman on difficult. Apart from that, I never had to reload a fight. In fact, not a single party member went down. No wonder with nobody using force powers and hardly anybody using grenades...

 

But KOTOR1 was a pioneer, of the engine and of that "cinematic" style of storytelling on computer. But I feel that part 2 _did_ improve on it, even if not as much as was hoped. IMHO, of course.

 

Now to see how it stands to replaying...

Edited October 25, 2005 by maia

[Darth_Onivega]

I totally agree with everything u just said, the graphics for k1 were beautiful, now there just bland, the music for the first game was awsome, but k2's was undisarable, the storyline for k1 was actually exciting and cool while k2's we just full of leads without ends, and that choice on k1 where u defeat bastilla on that rakata planet, where u choose between the light and darksides, was just ****ing cool, k2 basicly was just...choppy

[Darth_Schmarth]

1.  the much maligned Bastila thing on Taris,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

2.  the fact that nobody recognised Revan's face. Yes, there was the mask, but s/he wouldn't have been able to wear it as a padawan and the Republic newscasts certainly would have broadcasted the old personal images.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This I found a bit poorly thought through too. I thought it strange that Revan apparently started sporting his/her dark robe, hood and mask before actually becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith. Remember the ruin cutscene from Korriban, when Revan and Malak enter the temple for the first time. Malak's lines give away that they have not yet fallen or become Sith, but Revan doesn't exactly look like your typical canon Jedi, does he?

 

7. why did Revan use the Starforge so sparingly and what were their ultimate plans with it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought this was explained well enough in K1, but K2 dismissed the Star Forge for convenience (in the case you chose Revan to have been dark). The Star Forge simply helped them amass their huge starfleet, but Malak tells you in the end that Revan never realised the full potential of it, that he merely thought it to be a factory of sorts.

 

Party interaction. Hm... I liked the new and interesting things they did - influence, snippets of NPC interaction on the Hawk, etc. But I think that this stuff needs to be developped further - depending on the Charisma score you should have had options to lie to the NPCs, fake the sympathy to gain Influence and when your Influence with them becomes high enough also to successfully defend the actions the given NPC otherwise tends to dislike and gain further influence from _that_. I also feel that radical change of alignment of an NPC should be worthy of a side-event or at least an extra dialogue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good ideas. The only thing that seemed to change with your level of influence was the characters' physical appearances, which was a big let-down.

[Black_Eye_90]

I agree, influence was a good idea that was simply poorly executed

 

for example I really liked the influence system because it forced me to bring other characters off the ship from time to time, where as in k1 I used Jolee and Bastila on almost every planet

 

 

but they really screwed up with the amount of influence hits they put in the game.........

 

there are so few influence hits for some characters you are literally "forced" to use them at certain times........they should really have taken a look at the game and added at least 3 times more influence hits

 

it was also a bit odd how once you had turned good characters too the darkside, they would still preach LS ideas...........instead of having dark side line of thought

 

so generally influence was a good idea but it simply wasnt develloped enough

[Wild Storm]

1. the much maligned Bastila thing on Taris,

If ya don't like it then download the mod.

2. the fact that nobody recognised Revan's face. Yes, there was the mask, but s/he wouldn't have been able to wear it as a padawan and the Republic newscasts certainly would have broadcasted the old personal images.

Its possible that they had no images. Or Revan destroyed them. Facial features can change as one grows up.

3. why did s/he leave the starmaps intact for the opponents to find,

Safety first. Something (like what happened) may happen and so its good to have those there.

4. what was the deal with the Rakatan animation on Kashyyk that hinted that Revan might have forseen the events of the game,

You answered your own question.

5. what where the reasons for their fall in the first place and did it occur before, during or after the Manadalorian war

"It corrupts all who walk upon its surface" Malachor V corrupted Revan and Malak after the War (or durig the battle)

6. how did the Jedi Masters intend to deal with the Mandalorians if Revan's solution was such a mistake. Not that part 2 answered it either...

They knew that the Mandalorians and Sith Empire were not the true threat and wanted to wait it out and then strike when it does.

7. why did Revan use the Starforge so sparingly and what were their ultimate plans with it

GO-TO answers this. Revan knew about the true sith and intended not to destroy key points in the Republic so that she can use them aganist the threat.

8. Bastila's fall. Not that it happened, but how and why. How did she go from hating Malak so much that it threatened her Jedi detachment to serving him? From her pride and feeling of superiority to becoming a cringing apprentice? Shouldn't she have decided instead that she was the only one powerful enough to take down Malak and using the Dark Side offered the only hope of doing so?

Funny thing about the Dark Side. It can do weird and strange things to the mind. Plus, all Sith know that they will eventually betray their master.

9. The stupid "flip-flop" schtick at the temple, which pretty much invalidated every choice offered previously.

Uhh...yep. Basically.

10. Revan never truly got confronted with the results of their actions, never got to learn the reasons for anything they have done before the mindwipe. Without that there could be no true redemption, IMHO. For me it was the single greatest weakness of part 1 and I hoped that part 2 would deal with it. And in a way it did, though using a different character. I still would have preferred Revan in that role, though.

The results were that she lost her memory for an extended period of time and eventually, the memories would come back. Slowly. Not all at once.

[_j1_]

yeah the ending wasnt that great but i think all in all it was as good as the original game. the influence thing was a nice feature and i liked that u had to have the right character w/ u at the right time...like life some ppl dont give a **** bout some things that other ppl care bout, it made u think and work to unlock all the characters abilities. the green menu features i feel added to the darker feel of the game. the exile was more of a anakin/luke skywalker character in that its up to him to restore balance to the force, which i think was kinda the point.

[Pavlos]

Why didn't people like K2 as much as the first? Sure the ending was a bit dead but the story itself was absolutely amazing. Didn't you like the fact that the character's weren't cardboard cut out, "good guys," and , "bad guys?" Or was it the fact that there was no huge plot twist; I don't want a huge plot twist! I liked the fact that the characters weren't all that they seemed to be. If you can't trust your party members then who can you trust? So what if Peragus was a bit dead, wasn't that the point? That you have to figure out what on earth happened there! The game was wonderfully written and Griskey's music matched the whole dark feel of the game perfectly. The first game was set in the light this one in the dark and that was a nice change, I didn't want to feel safe when the Sith could be knocking on my door at any time! To add to your list of K1 errors: Why when you have the vision about Bastila fighting the dark jedi, it shows you on the ebon hawk before it goes to the scene! But anyway so what little things, the first game was a brilliant sweeping epic, we can call it the River Severn if you like, whereas the second was the Amazon- in my opinion anyway- even if sometimes you did feel a bit lost in it and the ending was a bit odd.

[FieryDove]

Why didn't people like K2 as much as the first? Sure the ending was a bit dead but the story itself was absolutely amazing. Didn't you like the fact that the character's weren't cardboard cut out, "good guys," and , "bad guys?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can't say for sure why I enjoyed K1 more. Maybe "darkness" is not my thing. I guess I'm still hoping for a Revan closure of somesort in K3. Don't get me wrong k2 was a fine game. Peragus however was just too repetitive for multiple run-throughs of the game for me. It almost made me cringe as much as the turret mini-game in K1.

 

In K2-

The good and bad guys were the same no matter what. The influence system was a nice thought but it didn't pan out. Sure you could change the alignments of a party member but they still had light or dark reactions based on what they started out as/scripted as- to whatever you did so it was kind of moot to bother except for Jedifing/backstory.

 

I also felt the music was more starwarsy in K1 (at least for me) and set the tone wherever I went. Atmosphere, music, scenery etc., really sets an rpg mood for me at least.

 

Maybe a list of what I didn't like might help:

 

K1 - Turret Mini-game (As one who planet hops ALOT it got so annoying, even for friends who liked it got tired of that real quick).

 

K2- Well I can't really list that here. Might be spoilers for some. But I can say it's more than one item. lol

[Darth Blivion]

I prefered kotor 2 to kotor 1, for its in depth story. It expounded on the role playing experience, and for that, it deserves props.

[Krookie]

Gotta give props when props are due.

 

 

What is props short for?

[Blank]

Why didn't people like K2 as much as the first? Sure the ending was a bit dead but the story itself was absolutely amazing. Didn't you like the fact that the character's weren't cardboard cut out, "good guys," and , "bad guys?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you on this subject. The main argument I have seen people make against K2's not-obviously-good-or-bad characters is that it doesn't adhere to the Star Wars tradition of having a simple good vs. evil plotline.

 

IMO that just reduces the complexity of the story because everything is "cardboard cut out". Every product with 'Star Wars' on it doesn't have to be an exact reflection of episode 4,5,6.

[Blank]

Gotta give props when props are due.

 

What is props short for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Main Entry: 1prop Pronunciation: 'pr

[germi91]

Why didn't people like K2 as much as the first? Sure the ending was a bit dead but the story itself was absolutely amazing. Didn't you like the fact that the character's weren't cardboard cut out, "good guys," and , "bad guys?" Or was it the fact that there was no huge plot twist; I don't want a huge plot twist! I liked the fact that the characters weren't all that they seemed to be. If you can't trust your party members then who can you trust? So what if Peragus was a bit dead, wasn't that the point? That you have to figure out what on earth happened there! The game was wonderfully written and Griskey's music matched the whole dark feel of the game perfectly. The first game was set in the light this one in the dark and that was a nice change, I didn't want to feel safe when the Sith could be knocking on my door at any time! To add to your list of K1 errors: Why when you have the vision about Bastila fighting the dark jedi, it shows you on the ebon hawk before it goes to the scene! But anyway so what little things, the first game was a brilliant sweeping epic, we can call it the River Severn if you like, whereas the second was the Amazon- in my opinion anyway- even if sometimes you did feel a bit lost in it and the ending was a bit odd.

 

Actually that's exactly why l didn't like Kotor 2 as much as Kotor 1. Because in Kotor 2, it's too complicated. The 'Gray' neutral thing is not star wars. It don't feel it stays true to the original idea of Star Wars, in which it was a fight between good and evil. In Kotor 1, it was much more simple and easy to understand. It felt to me like a good star wars story. It was good against evil, right against wrong.

In kotor 2, you suddenly go like all phylosophical and start questioning yourself, 'What is good and evil? Is there such a thing ?'. Star Wars isn't about phylosophy. It's about a fight, a battle, a war. It's light against dark. Jedi fighting the Sith or Dark side. For me, the story comes first in any RPG.

 

The gameplay was equally bugged in both games, though. I did like the change in robes for example. I certainly didn't like either the influence system or the RLG. I really would like Bioware to make Kotor 3. Bioware has more experience.

[Pavlos]

There is a lot of philosophy in Star Wars. It employs archetypal motifs common to both science fiction and classical mythology, we have the half truths of Ben; what are they there for? Are they there to protect Luke or to protect Ben's pride? The whole good vs evil idea is philosophy, in the prequels we see Palpatine turning a republic into an empire, that is exactly what Plato said could easily happen, in Plato's Republic (He didn't much liek democracy so he'd probably be pleased with Palpidious) And I liked the influence system, sure it was a tad bit under developed but it became sort of a mini-game. When playing LS it was always, "How do I gain influence with Kreia without DS points?"

 

I personally think that if I had to make a choice between Obsidian and Bioware making KotOR III I'd select Obsidian, they had a brilliant idea and not enough time to implement it.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Pavlos

[InuYasha]

KotOR II had its faults, shortcomings and misgivings I'll agree, but the sinlge biggest thing that went wrong that stopped me from having as much fun as I would have liked to have was all the damn freezing and slow down. I can live with cut areas, unfinished dialogue, weak character development, but its very hard to live with constant freezing/crashing and slow down.

 

Of course, if it didn't have any of that, I'd just complain about all the other stuff I was bickering about...

Edited October 29, 2005 by InuYasha

[CoM_Solaufein]

but its very hard to live with constant freezing/crashing and slow down.

Do you have the latest patch? Your computer meet the specifications for the game?

[InuYasha]

I do not own the PC version of The Sith Lords. I'm more of a console gamer then anything else, so I naturally bought the game for my beloved Xbox. PCs cost too much money, IMHO, to maintain and upgrade, while with a console you only have to buy it once and your set.

 

However, the Xbox is capable of hardcoding information into its hard drive, which is why I am waiting, (for something that will not come no doubt), for Obsidian to release a patch update for the Xbox version. *sighs*

Edited October 29, 2005 by InuYasha

[intellilife]

must admit i was shocked when i saw the green text etc. come star wars text was blue. remember the beginning..."A long time ago in a galaxy far far away..." - IN BLUE

 

and the menu's etc. being huge, and no new items section in the inventory. yes i did miss that. but i could live with these changes...but...

 

the game had the potential to be huge, but because i time constraints is just messy with uncompleted quests etc. which leave you scratching your head.

 

damn shame.

Edited November 9, 2005 by intellilife

[Bulgarian Jedi]

As long as thye staring text is not pink, I a mfine. I actually liked K2's green background. It is a nice change from K1(the blue text there was very good, too).

I hope that K3's background is going to be different, for example grey. That is if there is K3.

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

12-

when you get to the Ebon Hawk on Peragus you get attacked by sith forces.. but where did they came from? You just were on the Harbinger and there were none there. Sion apparently only has stealth sith assassins serving him, and these ones have the uniform from the sith forces that served under MAlak or Revan in KOTOR I. They could at least had shown some of them on the Harbinger, and make them chase you to the Ebon Hawk.. your character could have delayed them by closing a door or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

They ARE on the Harbinger... That's where you first encounter them. They materialise around you after like every corridor. Then they ambush you at the Ebon Hawk after that.

 

[zodden]

I am curious as to how you would rate this game after the Restoration Project releases its final product. It may very well take away the "beta" feeling you felt with the current state and give the game the "polish" that is lacking now. You certainly get the feeling from their website and all the talk about it that its something special.

 

From all the stuff they are working on it becomes shocking to see how much was left out. It must have been so painful for the Obsidian people to have to let something unfinished out the door, but thats the way of this industry it seems these days.

[BattleCookiee]

Many spoilers now - moved to Spoilers section

[Justinian_A]

Personally, I loved Kotor 2. I enjoyed Kotor I, but it had no replay value to me. Your decisions, dark side or light side, didn't really have much impact on the game (except for the end.) I've replayed Kotor II a few times now, and I still enjoy it. I really liked the story much, much better as opposed to Kotor 1...Kotor 1's story was far too simplistic...cardboard cutouts of good versus evil. None of your sidekicks had much in the way of personality or motivation, either. In Kotor 2, it's much darker (which I love..) things are far more morally ambiguous, and your henchmen have their own hidden agendas. The dialog options are MUCH better, and the story twists as a whole are also superior. Plus, I liked being the Exile more than Revan...in Kotor 1, I just felt like the Jedi Council's lapdog. As the Exile, I could make my own choices and defend (or rebuke) the choices of my past. It's just a far better role-playing experience. Kotor 2 reminded me very much of two of my favorite RPGs of all time, Fallout I and II. The same dark, haunting atmosphere with moral ambiguity and the appropriate creepy music and claustrophobic feel. The only real downside of Kotor II is the fact that it's obviously an unfinished piece of work...however, that just gives me more hope that Kotor III would be absolutely fantastic if developed by Obsidian. They obviously can write a damn good RPG story...now they should also know the amount of time they'll need to perfectly polish an ambitious project for the future. Kotor II was an interrupted masterpiece of gaming, I hope they get to do themselves justice with Kotor III.

[vaxen83]

In terms of the raid on Freedon Nadd's tomb, the process of summoning a Sith Lord back to life was interrupted. It might have made it challenging to face an ancient Sith Lord whose spirit would take possession of a Sith Master's body apart from the other three who were involved in the summoning ritual. Instead, the fourth Sith Master who was to be possessed collapsed when the ritual was broken without an occurrence of resurrection.