A Thought on MMORPGs

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MU

[GhostofAnakin]

MMORPG are the devil unless you have friends you can game with online.

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[LadyCrimson]

I find the game (WoW) alot of fun but ultimately, there's no point to it.

 

Sure there is...it's fun. Isn't that the whole point of any game/entertainment? If you had/are having fun, I'd say there was enough of a point to make it worth the time you spent.

On-line RPG's, IMO, are mostly about two things.

 

One, building a character from top to bottom...different builds (or 'alts') to try their skills and see how they fare. There's no story point...just the 'what if' and 'can I' and 'will this work' and 'how does this work' of character building which some people really like on its own, story or not.

 

Two, playing with other people, either co-op or PvP.

 

Not everyone sees a story or an 'ending' as the point of a game.

And in case you'd forgotten, WoW does have a few RP servers...where people who want to stay/talk in character and actually roleplay can go. Not that I've made a character on one of those, so I don't know how well it works out...but the option is there.

[Drakron]

....And in case you'd forgotten, WoW does have a few RP servers...where people who want to stay/talk in character and actually roleplay can go. Not that I've made a character on one of those, so I don't know how well it works out...but the option is there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....

 

It shows you never be on one of those.

[metadigital]

Oh, what times we live in when knights are free to ssay "Ni!" to ladies in broad daylight ...!

[Guest Fishboot]

WoW is like a combination bad action CRPG, bad multiplayer PVP game, bad coop game, bad IRC channel and bad Everquest guild raiding game. Now, if your particular tastes find those features collectively greater than the sum of their parts, you'll enjoy it, but otherwise you'll consume all the low-hanging content in short order and then leave. Not that there's anything wrong with that, either way.

[metadigital]

When you say "collectively greater than the sum of their parts", do you mean it is worse or better, as you were summing negatives ...

[LadyCrimson]

you'll consume all the low-hanging content in short order and then leave.

 

That's pretty much what I do with all games.

I don't think there's been a game in the past 3 years that has 'held' me for more than a couple months. A couple that I occasionally go back to for a few hours one day, now and then, but nothing more.

 

I find all games a static-map level-grind of some sort and once the novelty stops being fun I stop playing.

 

I miss the DungeonKeeper series. I want DK3, damnit.

[Guest Fishboot]

When you say "collectively greater than the sum of their parts", do you mean it is worse or better, as you were summing negatives ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I mean better. That is a little sloppy now that I read it. I didn't intend for "bad" to be conceptually mapped to a negative number, but rather a small positive number. "Mediocre" might have worked better. I also should have said, "collectively greater than their sum" since I was talking about the parts in the first place.

[metadigital]

Ah, so it was a balanced review, as opposed to a total slam dunk write-off. I see, said the blind man waving his wooden leg ...

[213374U]

Sure there is...it's fun. Isn't that the whole point of any game/entertainment? If you had/are having fun, I'd say there was enough of a point to make it worth the time you spent.

I fail to see the "fun" in slaughtering the same baddies over and over again until you level up, at which point you just move to the next dungeon. At best, it's like a chat with mini games. And when you reach the top level... start over again. At any rate, there's no sense of accomplishment.

 

 

Two, playing with other people, either co-op or PvP.

Yes, that's probably the only element of a MMORPG that attracts my attention. But then again, I can do that in action games where my skills grow much faster than the levels of an RPG.

The regulars of the RPG world, I don't really fight with, as they are probably top level too, and the risks are too high, unless I have a power build. And the new players offer no challenge at all, as their skill is irrelevant compared to the time they have spent on the server.

 

No, sorry, but MMORPGs as they are conceived right now offer no real fun gaming when compared to other genres. Community or chat enjoyment, that's a whole different story.

[Ioini]

Thats the sole reason I don't play MMORPGS is that they are too much into chat enjoyment when I'm into something like Enemy Territory, your skills grow as you are in the server and your XP moves from map to map from each skill you gain.

[LadyCrimson]

*argumentive stance*

 

I fail to see the "fun" in slaughtering the same baddies over and over again until you level up, at which point you just move to the next dungeon.

 

And you failed to notice that my comment wasn't directed towards making a statment that MORPG's should be considered fun for all time, all the time, for everyone.

I quoted the poster for a reason - my comments were directed towards the concept that he/she had played for a while and then thought there was no point even tho he/he was still having some fun because of the community aspect.

 

If you play a game and you have fun, that's the point. If you play a game and have fun and then get bored enough to dislike/hate it, stop playing by all means, but it doesn't negate the fact you had fun before you got bored. Get it?

[EnderAndrew]

City of Heroes, Anarchy Online and Planetside have had some success as well.

 

They're not sword-and-sorcery at all.

[Calax]

The Roleplaying servers are basically where you go if you don't like getting your head handed to you by a mob of players every time you leave a "safe" zone. Of course, the Tauren have problems because their leader dies every 10 hours XnX while people are waiting to get into Alterac Valley on the sever i visit at my friends.

[LadyCrimson]

The Roleplaying servers are basically where you go if you don't like getting your head handed to you by a mob of players every time you leave a "safe" zone.

 

I thought the 'Normal' servers (what I'm on) also served that purpose, since typically you can't be PvP'd unless you specifically agree to it or do one of the few actions that opens yourself up to it by default.

Maybe the RP server aren't as RP as they were intended to be - ie people don't stay in character or whatever - as I said, haven't been there...and in that case the difference between the two server types is nominal and one could RP on the 'Normal' servers as well as the RP. Perhaps they'll retire the RP server eventually, then.

[213374U]

*argumentive stance*

Really, no need for that. I'd rather not get into "argumentative stance" too, as it usually ends in a flamewar with the thread being locked and the mods frowning at me. I wasn't trying to shoot you down, either. So let's keep it friendly.

 

 

And you failed to notice that my comment wasn't directed towards making a statment that MORPG's should be considered fun for all time, all the time, for everyone.

I quoted the poster for a reason - my comments were directed towards the concept that he/she had played for a while and then thought there was no point even tho he/he was still having some fun because of the community aspect.

Sure. But there are other games that provide that aspect too, and don't require a monthly fee. No sense of accomplishment in those either, but at least you only pay once for the game.

 

 

If you play a game and you have fun, that's the point. If you play a game and have fun and then get bored enough to dislike/hate it,  stop playing by all means, but it doesn't negate the fact you had fun before you got bored. Get it?

No it doesn't. But still, I fail to see any real advantage to MMORPGs that other games don't have, while the disadvantages are obvious. This doesn't preclude the fact that they can be fun, for a time, for some people. But then again, some people enjoy hunting game and destruction derbys.

 

What I was trying to say is that the actual concept of MMORPG fails to deliver. Those games aren't very RPG-ish, and the only attractive idea behind the MMO concept (that of a persistent world that can be shaped by the community) hasn't been implemented very well yet (if at all). You can meet dozens of different players in regular games too, all you need to do is switch servers.

[Shadowstrider]

EVE Online isn't a bad space-sim MMO game, can be a lot of fun.

 

If you get involved in the right communities MMORPGs are much more RPG than any RPG you can play. Period. When you roleplay with other players its dynamic and actually responds to what you're saying, rather than which text option you click. Unfortunately I've never found a good roleplaying community, most are full of god-moders or people who want to have teh saibar secks.

[213374U]

If you get involved in the right communities MMORPGs are much more RPG than any CRPG you can play.  Period.

Fix'd.

 

 

When you roleplay with other players its dynamic and actually responds to what you're saying, rather than which text option you click.  Unfortunately I've never found a good roleplaying community, most are full of god-moders or people who want to have teh saibar secks.

Ah, yes. Another good idea in theory. "

[Calax]

only problem is you get this

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2005-06-10&res=l

I was trying to find the gold farming one but couldn't here, maybe that was vg...

[Shadowstrider]

If you get involved in the right communities MMORPGs are much more RPG than any CRPG you can play.  Period.

Fix'd.

 

Not really. I've often found most those who play table top RPGs don't roleplay much either, they just play themselves, with their idealized stats for the chosen class. The personality is exactly the same as themselves in reality. CRPG, RPG, MMORPG, this carries throughout.

 

 

When you roleplay with other players its dynamic and actually responds to what you're saying, rather than which text option you click.  Unfortunately I've never found a good roleplaying community, most are full of god-moders or people who want to have teh saibar secks.

Ah, yes. Another good idea in theory. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, it can be done in practice, as well. Unfortunately you cannot do so consistantly. If you try to, you will spend about half, if not more, of your mmo gaming just standing around looking silly trying to get a real roleplay group together.

 

Even in the "good" roleplaying communities there are bad apples, who suffer from the same problem I mentioned above, they don't actually roleplay, they just play themselves in a fantasy avatar - complete with melodramatic back story.

 

Again, not impossible to find good roleplaying in MMOs, just difficult, as with PnP or anything else.

[213374U]

Not really.  I've often found most those who play table top RPGs don't roleplay much either, they just play themselves, with their idealized stats for the chosen class.  The personality is exactly the same as themselves in reality.  CRPG, RPG, MMORPG, this carries throughout.

Obviously you haven't had much luck with your PnP gaming groups. That sort of people just aren't role playing, so it it's not an RPG. There are lots of games that involve rolling dice, but they aren't called RPGs.

 

 

No, it can be done in practice, as well.  Unfortunately you cannot do so consistantly.  If you try to, you will spend about half, if not more, of your mmo gaming just standing around looking silly trying to get a real roleplay group together.

 

Even in the "good" roleplaying communities there are bad apples, who suffer from the same problem I mentioned above, they don't actually roleplay, they just play themselves in a fantasy avatar - complete with melodramatic back story.

 

Again, not impossible to find good roleplaying in MMOs, just difficult, as with PnP or anything else.

Which basically boils down to "it can be done, but in practice, it's unfeasible". Exactly what I meant.

 

And there's a very significant difference with standard tabletop games. In a MMORPG, you can't prevent some dumb fuck from outside your group to crash your nice RP session (if you ever manage to arrange such a thing). In a closed PnP group, that simply cannot happen.

[Shadowstrider]

Actually you can prevent people from crashing your session, a few ways, in different games. Most MMO games have"instanced" missions or zones. Guild Wars, for example, only has towns as truely "massively multiplayer" once you leave the town in GW, it is just you and your team.

 

In City of Heroes your missions are instanced, once you enter the mission it is just you and your team. Another alternative is to go to a place where only you can access, like a Guildhall in GW, or your Supergroup's headquarters in CoH (once City of Villains is released, anyway). Another alternative is to simply ignore all channels but the team/supergroup/Global channels you want.

 

*shrugs*

 

I'm sure it is feasible for some people to roleplay, and only roleplay in MMO games. For example in WoW if someone isn't roleplaying on a roleplaying server you can petition and if you have enough evidence the non-roleplayer is moved off the server. In CoH the Virtue server has a very large roleplaying population; though you run into god moders with backstories like "I'm the son of Thor" - Ofcourse the head dev of the game has the "incarnate of Zeus" story for his character, so what do you expect? I have had good luck finding roleplayers in Guild Wars, but the game is boring.

[alanschu]

But still, I fail to see any real advantage to MMORPGs that other games don't have

 

Then I suspect you've never played one.

 

 

There's that goofy intangible that I can't put my finger on that makes them appealing. I swore I would never subscribe to a game, but after playing the beta of WoW I was sold on it for a couple of months.