KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[alanschu]

The best evil options are when you convince people to do stuff completely against their character.

 

Like Zaalbar in KOTOR 1.

[EnderAndrew]

Like I've said before, inlfuence is touchy. In Handmaiden is suddenly happy with evil actions just because you're evil, then you get max influence with everyone just for doing what you would normally do.

[julianw]

The best evil options are when you convince people to do stuff completely against their character.

 

Like Zaalbar in KOTOR 1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. I want a manipulator rather than some mindless massmurderer.

[EnderAndrew]

Don't you feel that playing DS you had moments such as when you turned Atton to the DS? Admittedly, the game needed a path where you might lie more and pretend to be good. But I'm not sure I've ever seen a game fully pull that off.

[alanschu]

Don't you feel that playing DS you had moments such as when you turned Atton to the DS?

 

Errrr, is this a proper sentence? I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

 

If you're talking about choice ala the Zaalbar thing, I loved turning Atton to the Darkside. Seeing his reaction and swearing out against the Jedi was great!

[EnderAndrew]

I apologize. Given the last ocuple of posts I figured I could infer what those moments were. I'm also torn in 12 directions tonight.

[Calax]

Like I've said before, inlfuence is touchy.  In Handmaiden is suddenly happy with evil actions just because you're evil, then you get max influence with everyone just for doing what you would normally do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I liked some of the Atton times darkside actions. Where you gained influence with him for slaughtering innocents? I liked the fact where he didn't just say "Dear GOD what's wrong with you people?" The easiest way to do what your suggesting ender would be record a dialogue for each level of darkness/lightness. Like with the crystal that brightens or opaques with your alignment the convo's would do the same. It'd take a lot more time but you cuold have the story remain close to the same and if your are a minimalist you could have two major retellings of critical lines and only on the influence lines do they have the above system.

[Darth Sprawl]

IMO, the current influence system needs to be scrapped, sorry. Tweaking it would be like taking a car engine out and putting in bicycle pedals. OE should go back to formula and put in a turbo.

 

Influence affected what info you received about some particular moment or character in a npc's POV. I would rather find a data pad instead of pretending to be good/evil with some npc for half the game just to get them to finally tell me that they don't know what happened to Revan, WTF! It certainly didnot make or break alliances. If you gained enough to convert a npc to jedi/dark jedi, it rarely changed how they acted or spoke to the pc after their initial conversion sequence. Influence for droids?! Come on, that should be a fracking computer/repair skill alone, instead of having to worry if blowing up some toaster hurts a machines feelings?!

 

Maybe I am old fashioned, but I think manipulation should be done with tried-and-true jedi mind tricks like affect/dominate mind. You certainly would get more dark side options in dialogues. I LOVE in kotor where you could go into that cantina on Tatooine and force choke that chode or getting that female Sith arrested on Maanan, we need more of that! The best kotor2 moment had to be using that to get them Nar Shada thugs to jump off the platform! Adding more tiers to that force feat would be the better way of exploring "influence" for ALL playable/non-playable or "true" npc's.

[metadigital]

The best evil options are when you convince people to do stuff completely against their character.

 

Like Zaalbar in KOTOR 1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I want a manipulator rather than some mindless massmurderer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, that's what I meant. There was no manipulation, no coersion, no extortion. Just full-frontal assault.

 

The last thing in the world Zaalbar would do is betray his best friend. But, he had pledged a life-debt to Revan, and so he had to choose his loyalties. (It would have been interesting to have Zaalbar randomly choose either Mission or attack Revan or kill himslef (or something else?).)

 

Regardless, that was clever scripting. More of that.

[Jediphile]

Yeah, but then you have a DS Handmaiden chastising you for doing something 'bad'.  "  I'd say the system definitely needs some tuning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, you've put your finger exactly on the problem with the K2 influence system. It's fine that the Handmaiden should act this way given her initial sense of ethics, but not once you've corrupted her and led her astray with your evil ways [insert optional evil MUHAHAAA here].

 

Like I've said before, inlfuence is touchy.  In Handmaiden is suddenly happy with evil actions just because you're evil, then you get max influence with everyone just for doing what you would normally do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but only as long as you haven't corrupted her. Initially you may "pretend" to be good and take LS points. And you should take LS points in those situations, because you're doing good things - I don't care whether you're just "pretending to be good for the sake of proving how evil you really are". It's a characters actions and choices that define him, not he deludes himself into thinking. Besides, it should "cost" (i.e., give you LS points) to corrupt the good.

 

Once you managed to do it, however, it makes no sense that the corrupted should continue to behave according the same sense of ethics. No, they won't have abandoned their principles completely, but they will have perverted and twisted them into something almost unrecognizable. After all, that's what happened to Anakin. He wanted to save his wife. That's not evil, is it? No, but Sidious used that goal and perverted it into something that corrupted Anakin.

[GhostofAnakin]

Once you managed to do it, however, it makes no sense that the corrupted should continue to behave according the same sense of ethics. No, they won't have abandoned their principles completely, but they will have perverted and twisted them into something almost unrecognizable. After all, that's what happened to Anakin. He wanted to save his wife. That's not evil, is it? No, but Sidious used that goal and perverted it into something that corrupted Anakin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not sure I agree with that. Take Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) as an example. The Emperor completely corrupted him by the end of the movie, yet he STILL felt remorse and horror at the fact he was the one that killed the woman he loved. In other words, his old self (the one that cared about people, especially those close to him) was still there even though his new self was about doing the Emperor's bidding.

[alanschu]

And I think that was the final death of his old self.

[GhostofAnakin]

Except for when Luke turned him back.

 

There's always a lingering of one's old self, so I don't think it's a stretch that some of that old personality would be present even if they have been "corrupted".

[metadigital]

Except for when Luke turned him back.

 

There's always a lingering of one's old self, so I don't think it's a stretch that some of that old personality would be present even if they have been "corrupted".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It just means that there was always a little bit of his Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! left in him, all that time. :D

[EnderAndrew]

Not sure I agree with that.  Take Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) as an example.  The Emperor completely corrupted him by the end of the movie, yet he STILL felt remorse and horror at the fact he was the one that killed the woman he loved.  In other words, his old self (the one that cared about people, especially those close to him) was still there even though his new self was about doing the Emperor's bidding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I completely agree. People don't scrap their beliefs and personality they've had their whole life instantly. Corruption isn't just a matter of one decision. It is a process, and one hand people are asking for more manipulation. On the other people are complaining about how influence forces you to be deceptive and manipulative.

 

Make up your mind. You want to act like a mindless bully and then wonder why people might have a problem with it? Did Palpy just murder people, have Anakin watch, and expect that to turn Anakin?

 

People don't understand the influence system. That doesn't make it broken.

[alanschu]

Many people I think were upset because they couldn't be all the way darkside while influencing one of the lightside characters, therefore temporarily forfeiting their DS bonus which is just completely unacceptable!!!

[metadigital]

But the influence system is still broken ...

[Jediphile]

A late response to Hawk's lastest chapter for a K3 plot.

 

Not sure about Falleen as a background, since the details don't seem important to the plot to me (not that I have a problem with it).

 

I do like Kalan Tas, though. A Sith-hating Dark Jedi. That's not a character we see often in Star Wars - well done. I think in the strictly black/white universe of Star Wars, this character would forced to be a Sith, but I still think he works well as a character. It's probably more appropriate to say that will inescapably become Sith himself if continues to be fueled by his anger, hatred and vengeance (and so continues to use the dark side), even though he would never see it that way himself. But I digress...

 

Never heard of the nighthunters before, but I assume you have some specific in mind for this one, since it otherwise doesn't seem to serve much purpose in the plot.

 

I see you use Exile/Nihilus the same way I did. Not about to argue against that, obviously

 

I'm not nearly as hot on the son/daughter of Revan idea, though. If Revan is your mother/father, then it certainly begs the question of who the other parent is. Besides, I don't get the impression that Revan is old enough to have a grown child (let alone the fact that jedi aren't supposed to have children at all). Also, you said that the plot began two years after K2. The problem with that is that this would be only 12 years after the Mandalorian wars, and Revan and Malak were both still pretty young at that time (remember, they were the young, rising heroes of the jedi, who defied the stuffy old ways of the masters).

 

But even if that could be reconciled, I'm still not hot on the idea itself. In K1 my character was the fallen dark lord, who had a destiny to filful, whether I liked it or not. In K2 I'm the Exile who is returning the Republic as the last of the jedi. I'm really tired of the "chosen one" device, because it reduces my actions to being defined by my destiny instead of my choices. I'd rather play a jedi like any other who just make extraordinary choices and performs significant acts.

 

I mean, Waddo even says it in your plot:

 

Waddo: And now that you see what has happened, we are fortunate to have you returned to us. We knew that we could not place fate in Revan

[metadigital]

You mean you want to be the "Right (wo)man in the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time", rather than another "Chosen One" .

 

Me too.

[Krookie]

You mean you want to be the "Right (wo)man in the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time", rather than another "Chosen One" .

 

Me too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm also sick of being the "chosen one", I'd rather be a regular Jedi who was just picked by the council to stop some threat.

[GhostofAnakin]

You mean you want to be the "Right (wo)man in the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time", rather than another "Chosen One" .

 

Me too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm also sick of being the "chosen one", I'd rather be a regular Jedi who was just picked by the council to stop some threat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. But unfortunately so far that wouldn't have made much sense in the first two storylines.

 

But it seems any story on a world wide (or in Star Wars case, galaxy wide) scale requires a "Chosen One". The only way the story doesn't have that is if the story is more centralized to one area.

[DAWUSS]

I actually don't mind that "Chosen One" image now that it's been established. However, in a new series, no.

[GhostofAnakin]

I actually don't mind that "Chosen One" image now that it's been established. However, in a new series, no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah but what makes it get annoying in the KOTOR series is if every new protagonist is "THE CHOSEN ONE". Revan was that guy (gal), and then Exile was that guy (gal). So if they make a third "Chosen One", it a)makes the overall story start to seem lame and b)it reduces the actual importance of Revan/Exile.

 

What made Revan special was because he was made out to be this Uber Jedi during the KOTOR period. The more they use the Chosen One protagonist, the more it means Revan (and the Exile after him) really weren't all that special or unique.

[Judge Hades]

I like the wrong place wrong time method. How about this idea, you are just some poor schmoe out on the rim where Revan and Exile show up and face a baddie which kills both of them, then walks away.

 

You are there as a witness to the death of two powerful jedi/sith and the act of their murders creates a huge rumble in the force making the character force sensitive and almost on the level of power of Revan and Exile.

 

 

Stupidest idea ever.

[DAWUSS]

A fight between Revan and Exile would be cool, especially since the two appear to be the "Chosen Ones" (of the period anyway), and since it appears Revan was taken by the dark side by 2, it could be the Chosen One of the Sith vs. Chosen One of the Jedi.

 

And like I mentioned before, if the two fight, I want Duel of the Fates as the music.

 

Thing is, where would we have that fight? Tatooine's Dune Sea? Coruscant's Jedi Temple (with the Room of 1000 Fountains and the place where the Jedi Order gather at)? Lok's vicious wasteland (or volcanoes)? Some unheard of planet? Telos? Dathomir? Endor?