KOTOR 2

[Diogo Ribeiro]

But hell, don't just take my word for it.

 

Source 1

 

Source 2

 

Source 3

 

Source 1's description of Computer Science fits the game's CG well:

 

Computer Science. To produce (a program) by instructing a computer to follow given parameters with a skeleton program.

 

as in the game, you are very much bringing TNO into life by determining its stats.

[Judge Hades]

Well, I prefer a full character creation system in my CRPGs thank you very much. That was a major fault in PS:T's design and why it is in the #2 position as one of my favorite games ever instead of #1.

 

The d20 System of Star Wars allows a full range of different characters with combinations of class, race, feats, and skills. I would like to see that accurately done in a PC game.

[Darque]

The d20 System of Star Wars allows a full range of different characters with combinations of class, race, feats, and skills. I would like to see that accurately done in a PC game.

 

I agree with this. I really, really, really hope KotOR 2 allows for more options, and more accurate ones.

[Ksan]

Well, orange lightsabers are good... But KoTOR had other major flaws on my opinion, and I haven't seen them discussed here:

 

1. All quests available for all classes. This is kind of silly, i was playing BG2 4 times to get most quests done, or to get other options, and only one time playing KoTOR to get every quest. Playing for the second time was like racing for checkpoints.

 

2. During dialogs... well I thought my choices had to do something with it. Why this persistent feeling of uselessness: no matter what i said, the NPC answer will be the same. Bioware gave voices to them, but the price was too high.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

That's a good point. Specially the second, which Bioware apparently loves doing.

[kefka]

Actually, I think that's a price worth paying; to have all spoken dialog.

I can see how some people might not like it though. The NPCs do have similar responses but you were asking them basically the same thing, just worded differently.

Without replaying the game, you'd never know that the others gave the same answer. It's not perfect by any means, but well worth it for such impressive voice talent. And since KotOR raised the bar in this regard, future RPGs can only have more dialog options - all spoken of course.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The point was that this was done even before using excessive voice talent.

[kefka]

Yeah, maybe, but I was responding to ksan's KotOR example. Spoken dialog was clearly going to limit the amount of replies or you'd need about 8 CDs for the game.

 

It's less forgiving if dialog is mostly text, but there again I think you have to draw the line. Different responses are pointless unless you're asking a very different question; and in KotOR at least, what you ask doesn't require multiple answers.

 

Text-only wouldn't change that. Writers aren't likely to waste their time on an immense amount of replies, covering every possible scenario, when a single answer will suffice.

[Saint of Killers]

You do remember that they have to pay the voice actors, and they do it based on the amount of work they have to do. At least, that counts in the advertising world ( I work with advertising, including radio spots and video production). Imagine what "amount of work" means when we are talking RPG. Like in Baldur's gate, it would be nice to have options when choosing the character's voice, for a few battle crys and orders during exploring. That, along with the "important conversations" and the party npc and enemy talk, would suffice, in my opinion.

[Ksan]

Actually, I think that's a price worth paying; to have all spoken dialog.

Yes, KoTOR is a good game, smooth and artificial, like SW movies (that's a bit of sarcasm, oh my) And it is worth playing, especially when no one else is going to release something of that caliber on the market. 2003 was dull.

Bioware was manufacturing RPGs for some time now and they have a good formulae -- a bit of this, a bit of that, turning everything upside down once per plot, and killing one evil guy in the end. As for me, i'd like to see something different from Obsidian, something with a fresh air in it.

[kefka]

You do remember that they have to pay the voice actors, and they do it based on the amount of work they have to do.

I don't see this as a problem. Production values are becoming so large now that they almost rival small movie budgets, and a great soundtrack is very desirable.

 

Audio is more than just music. I see no chance of studios hiring a first-rate composer and then consider voice actors to be of secondary importance - they go together.

 

Now that people have come to expect a full cast of vocal characters, there's no way we'll return to the days when voices were rare. Budgets and time constraints dictate this to some extent, so only large studios hire professional actors at present, but in time everyone will need to.

 

When DVD replaces CDs expect more spoken dialog than ever. Limited space has also been a restraining factor.

[Saint of Killers]

Yes, in the future, maybe a near future, games will be fully made with audio, no text for conversations. They will be graphically equal to movies. Fully 3d, fully interactive. But that's in the future. We are concerned about now. And now, it's not every game developer that can pump a hundred million dollar budget into a game. Every one likes games when they come pretty, neat and with crystal clear sound. But I'd rather turn up the volume on concept art, gameplay planning, writing and storytelling, than just make prettier games. There are lots of beautyfull games with great sound that are just plain boring, lame, unappealing and downright suck. Well, my money's not going there.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yes, in the future, maybe a near future, games will be fully made with audio, no text for conversations.

 

But I'd rather turn up the volume on concept art, gameplay planning, writing and storytelling, than just make prettier games.

Lets hope not, or deaf people will be screwed.

 

Concept art is important?

[Gorth]

Concept art is important?

No more than prototypes and design documents are for programmers...

 

Helps the designers to share and visualise ideas. Sort of setting a common goal for the people involved, theme, atmosphere, art and music direction etc. If you want another analogy, think of storyboards that moviemakers use to plan and present their ideas. Not an ideal comparison, but still, gives the general idea B)

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I know that concept art is important (in a way), and it was my mistake of not really explaining what i meant with the question. In his list concept art was put side by side with other things which are far more important to a game, which led me to make the question.

[Gorth]

No problem. Just wondered about why you singled that one out, being a part of the game design process

 

Edit: No, I'm not an artist btw.

[drkl0rd2000]

1. I would like to see KOTOR 2 take place later in time the time stream but not to the extent that the characters would have aged to much. A 2 year gap is a nice figure as it allows things to happen and develop between the original game and the sequel. There should be only minor references to the original game mostly concerning the romance between you and Bastila (you and carth if your female)

 

2. We all know that in the Star War timeline there is a constant imbalance in GOOD and EVIL , therefore it should not be hard to find another story where an epic adventure for power in good or evil must take place. The original story of Reven and Malak is noted in the Star Wars timeline as should the sequal be from this timeline. - I felt this was a good example from an above post and just restated it here, this goes hand in hand with number 1 being that there is always something going on in the life of Star Wars.

 

Somethings I would like to see changed/added into the game -

 

1. Better Endings - Take a look at the Final Fantasy games, it is the complete feeling we get after playing the game that always keeps us coming back. A good story also keeps us wanting more but its the ending that is ultimately the huge reward and it is the end that players strive to get to. The actual story in KOTOR was epic but the endings was somewhat weak. A good story is always better when it has an ending that makes you feel the journey is worth every moment.

 

2. Love Story - I hate to restate but look at Final Fantasy 7,8,10,X-2. The key is not so much in what is said but what is also felt. The conversations during KOTOR was nicely done but it had the feeling of being rushed a little and left many feel this was a romance that was incomplete. Take FF X-2 for example even though it was campy at times you never forgot about Yunas quest to find her love and that was something that motivated you to the very end. When the end did come you felt it in your core, this is what a game with romance should strive for, a romance should never be on the back burner if a romance is in a story then it should impact the lovers and their actions. An example for a romance style issue would be in Jedi Knight 2, when Kyle believes Jan was killed by Desian and was very close to going over to the darkness because of it and later how he reacted when he had found her(granted it was not a romance thing but you felt his loss in the way the story handled it). With a true RPG it could go tons farther it could be the driving force behind your actions causing you to walk the light or the darkness causing you to feel pain,joy and sorrow.

 

3. Characters and balance and importing characters - Its not really as important a feature as some would think, imports mean you have to balance the game on what you feel players have accomplished in the previous game. Though if the game is a sequel then all jedi characters should start with basic force powers since it would not make sense for a jedi to suddenly forget his/her training.

 

5. customization- I feel that the current level of customization in KOTOR was good enough. The basis of a RPG is the story and should not be wrapped around a (make your character pretty) simulation.

 

Character development- I would like to see some of the characters return if the game is based on a sequel. Bastila, Carth (these 2 would also be the centerpoint in any wellneeded romance), Mission, Big Z. And perhaps add a new character to the fray but I would keep the party members down to perhaps 5 or 6 max to allow for more character development.

 

Voice talent- Keep the same voice Talent if its a sequel, it always gets under the skins of many when you have speech in a game and a sequel comes out and the voices are totally different. Almost like having Avery Brooks play Sisko in season 1 through 5 of DeepSpace 9 and then hiring Ice T to finish out the run...it would just ruin the feeling of the experence.

 

Availability- PC availability is a must, to many games nowdays neglect the PC when in fact its because of the PC that you can push the design so much farther.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

1. I would like to see KOTOR 2 take place later in time the time stream but not to the extent that the characters would have aged to much. A 2 year gap is a nice figure as it allows things to happen and develop between the original game and the sequel. There should be only minor references to the original game mostly concerning the romance between you and Bastila (you and carth if your female)

 

2. We all know that in the Star War timeline there is a constant imbalance in GOOD and EVIL , therefore it should not be hard to find another story where an epic adventure for power in good or evil must take place. The original story of Reven and Malak is noted in the Star Wars timeline as should the sequal be from this timeline. - I felt this was a good example from an above post and just restated it here, this goes hand in hand with number 1 being that there is always something going on in the life of Star Wars.

 

Somethings I would like to see changed/added into the game -

 

1. Better Endings - Take a look at the Final Fantasy games, it is the complete feeling we get after playing the game that always keeps us coming back. A good story also keeps us wanting more but its the ending that is ultimately the huge reward and it is the end that players strive to get to. The actual story in KOTOR was epic but the endings was somewhat weak. A good story is always better when it has an ending that makes you feel the journey is worth every moment.

 

2. Love Story - I hate to restate but look at Final Fantasy 7,8,10,X-2. The key is not so much in what is said but what is also felt. The conversations during KOTOR was nicely done but it had the feeling of being rushed a little and left many feel this was a romance that was incomplete. Take FF X-2 for example even though it was campy at times you never forgot about Yunas quest to find her love and that was something that motivated you to the very end. When the end did come you felt it in your core, this is what a game with romance should strive for, a romance should never be on the back burner if a romance is in a story then it should impact the lovers and their actions. An example for a romance style issue would be in Jedi Knight 2, when Kyle believes Jan was killed by Desian and was very close to going over to the darkness because of it and later how he reacted when he had found her(granted it was not a romance thing but you felt his loss in the way the story handled it). With a true RPG it could go tons farther it could be the driving force behind your actions causing you to walk the light or the darkness causing you to feel pain,joy and sorrow.

 

3. Characters and balance and importing characters - Its not really as important a feature as some would think, imports mean you have to balance the game on what you feel players have accomplished in the previous game. Though if the game is a sequel then all jedi characters should start with basic force powers since it would not make sense for a jedi to suddenly forget his/her training.

 

5. customization- I feel that the current level of customization in KOTOR was good enough. The basis of a RPG is the story and should not be wrapped around a (make your character pretty) simulation.

 

Character development- I would like to see some of the characters return if the game is based on a sequel. Bastila, Carth (these 2 would also be the centerpoint in any wellneeded romance), Mission, Big Z. And perhaps add a new character to the fray but I would keep the party members down to perhaps 5 or 6 max to allow for more character development.

 

Voice talent- Keep the same voice Talent if its a sequel, it always gets under the skins of many when you have speech in a game and a sequel comes out and the voices are totally different. Almost like having Avery Brooks play Sisko in season 1 through 5 of DeepSpace 9 and then hiring Ice T to finish out the run...it would just ruin the feeling of the experence.

 

Availability- PC availability is a must, to many games nowdays neglect the PC when in fact its because of the PC that you can push the design so much farther.

1. The problem here is you take the liberty that the character actual did romance either one of them. Similiar to BG where they concluded that you must like Imoen.

 

2.Yes there should be plenty of empty space in the SW timeline to fit a game into.

Thats probably the least difficult part of it.

 

Odd numbering system but anyway..

 

1. In the FF games because the character are already written you can shape a much more intricate story and conclusion around them. The ending dosnt have to allow for the myriad of possibilites that have occured in the game because you know them from the design perspective already.

Even in KOTOR you have two distinct outcomes which means you are already doing twice as much as if there was one specific outcome no matter what.

In FFX-2 for example you only got the best ending if you got a high enough score in the game and you fulfilled certain conditions as well. But overall yes the longer and more rewarding the ending the better.

 

2. Again you dont have to take character choice into consideration here. Tidus and Yuna will always fall in love. The writers knew this as they wrote the story (though they were going to let you choose but they ran out of space and the idea of X-2 occured to them anyway). KOTOR and BG II actually allow you romance choices. They allow you to screw it up as well which tends to kill of the whole romance thing as a continuing plot. JK 2 is another game where the romance is pre scripted and your just playing out the version that is written.

 

With a classic RPG the concept of having to make someone fall in love to drive the story is an alien one. The option to fall in love is there but you dont have to take it if its not in character for you. Generally any concept of choice will always weaken the story unless the choice is irrelevent in the wider sceme of things.

 

3. Dont see how you are realistically going to import a level 20 Jedi Master into a new game. Unless you do it either in the same way that Golden Sun II did or you import them as the antagonist of the piece (name slips my mind but I think it was one of the Shining games).

Well unless you happen to be walking along a street in Coruscant and a plant pot falls on your head

 

5. You can never have too much character customisation when you are talking about freeform character creation.

 

If you have the characters reapear you get the same issues you do in BGII only this time without an "magic" answers. Its better to leave them as history, because history isnt perfect anyway which can explain any inconcistences.

 

Devs dont not make games for the PC because they hate it or anything. They dont make them because its been shown that its not profitable to do so compared console games. Pushing things farther is not always a good idea. Ask the people who are making Dukenukem forever sometime. You have to balance what you can realistically do with your evolutionary choices.

[Judge Hades]

I posted this in the other KotOR2 thread in the Delaware forum but it looks like it applies here as well. Anyway This is how I would start a sequel to this game out.

 

Minor KotOR poilers ahead so be warned:

 

Okay, if I was making the sequel to KotOR I would use the Dark Side ending as the base as well as be immediately after the end of the first game. It has a ready made end boss for the second game for the player to defeat as well.

 

The PCs would start off as Republic survivors of the battle who crashed landed onto the Rakata world where Carth is at, since he ran away. I would have Mission still dead and Zaalbar under Revan's heel. Carth becomes a leader of the survivors and gives players beginning missions to find parts, repairing ships, deal with the natives in one fashion or another, and figure out a way off the planet. They would use the Temple as a base, which more than likely piss off the One's people.

 

A few Jedi could be among the survivors as well, so that way the player can start playing a Jedi instead of being 8th to 9th level before Jedi-hood like the first game. As the survivors get ready to leave a small dark jedi team come in to do a sweep and clear as well as turn on the disruptor field, ordered by Revan, where the PCs get wind of their plans of invading the Core Worlds, but in the process Carth is killed.

 

With a new ship made from a mix match of parts, a small team of survivors blast off into space to stop Revan, Bastila and the Sith. Too their surprise the Star Forge is no longer in system for it went with the Sith Fleet, closer to the Front Lines to feed Revan a continuous stream of reinforcements readily available.

 

Now, how they interweave the story that it has the same impact as the first game will definitely be a challenge but I know Feargus and crew are up to the task. I just wished that they were doing something original first. <_<

[drkl0rd2000]

1. The problem here is you take the liberty that the character actual did romance either one of them. Similiar to BG where they concluded that you must like Imoen.

 

2.Yes there should be plenty of empty space in the SW timeline to fit a game into.

Thats probably the least difficult part of it.

 

Odd numbering system but anyway..

 

1. In the FF games because the character are already written you can shape a much more intricate story and conclusion around them. The ending dosnt have to allow for the myriad of possibilites that have occured in the game because you know them from the design perspective already.

Even in KOTOR you have two distinct outcomes which means you are already doing twice as much as if there was one specific outcome no matter what.

In FFX-2 for example you only got the best ending if you got a high enough score in the game and you fulfilled certain conditions as well. But overall yes the longer and more rewarding the ending the better.

 

2. Again you dont have to take character choice into consideration here. Tidus and Yuna will always fall in love. The writers knew this as they wrote the story (though they were going to let you choose but they ran out of space and the idea of X-2 occured to them anyway). KOTOR and BG II actually allow you romance choices. They allow you to screw it up as well which tends to kill of the whole romance thing as a continuing plot. JK 2 is another game where the romance is pre scripted and your just playing out the version that is written.

 

With a classic RPG the concept of having to make someone fall in love to drive the story is an alien one. The option to fall in love is there but you dont have to take it if its not in character for you. Generally any concept of choice will always weaken the story unless the choice is irrelevent in the wider sceme of things.

 

3. Dont see how you are realistically going to import a level 20 Jedi Master into a new game. Unless you do it either in the same way that Golden Sun II did or you import them as the antagonist of the piece (name slips my mind but I think it was one of the Shining games).

Well unless you happen to be walking along a street in Coruscant and a plant pot falls on your head

 

5. You can never have too much character customisation when you are talking about freeform character creation.

 

If you have the characters reapear you get the same issues you do in BGII only this time without an "magic" answers. Its better to leave them as history, because history isnt perfect anyway which can explain any inconcistences.

 

Devs dont not make games for the PC because they hate it or anything. They dont make them because its been shown that its not profitable to do so compared console games. Pushing things farther is not always a good idea. Ask the people who are making Dukenukem forever sometime. You have to balance what you can realistically do with your evolutionary choices.

1. I will bet that most of the players at least tried the romance to some level, however it is not necessary to predispose the game to one way or the other. If you want a completely different game with no reference to the previous then simply do not mention any events. However if you want to reference the previous game you could mention a few events which would help first time players to the second game. The romance- this could be just briefly mentioned so that first time players know there could be something develop between characters(its not necessary to guide them through the process but an idle mention might peek their interest in the love story aspect of the game and lets face it unless a person is from under a rock everyone knows Star Wars is space Opera at its finest). You could mention the StarForge while not making specifics.

 

The key here is NOT to make a KOTOR clone where you follow the same format; start out as a joe nobody and end up the savior or the evil dude of the known universe, while its a good format it could not be the best format. One of the things that made Starwars so good in the first place was the continuing stories(what happens in one impacts the other). The only downfall here is that in doing a sequel you would have to start with one extreme or the other and decide as a Dev which ending you wanted to base the sequel off of.

 

Under odd numbering system- HEY its my numbering system so its got to be odd :D

 

1: I referenced FF because when you look at it as a whole the story is complete it has a rewarding start, middle and ending. That is a rare thing in games anymore most spend to much time on the middle and skimp on the ending, if you want a game with no real story play quake but when most play a RPG they want a story with either an ending or a (to be continued) and not something that looks like it was tossed together in a few minutes. So a longer ending with more feeling of completion is always a must unless it is building towards a sequel.

 

2. For romance, if the Dev wants it in there then there should be at least an effort to make it rewarding to follow through to its end. The romance in BG2 and KOTOR was really not very rewarding it was more like an extended sidequest whos ending didn't really leave you feeling anything much. In a game like KOTOR it is interesting that you can screwup the relationship however doing one or the other option really does not impact gameplay, it would be nice if a romance that was put into the game could impact the game play somewhat. As an example certain events in KOTOR could be made easier or harder depending on if you tanked the relationship. My point here is a Romance in StarWars is always a event that impacts the world around them, to make this point just watch the films, so any relationship in a game should include some pitfalls and some advantages and not be a taxed up sidequest that has no benefits.

You would not have to follow any relationship in the game but it could be there if you decided to undertake it and the benefits and pitfalls could either make you undertake it or avoid it and that is the essence of Roleplaying which is making a choice and living with the outcome. As an example ONLY you enter a romance and your love is killed in a scripted sequence it could give you reason to roleplay your character to the tune of falling to the darkside or staying true to the light. Where as if you don't initiate a romance and the character is killed then there is no negative outcome. SAme example..your love has fallen to the darkside it could be easier to pull her back if you have a romance, in contrast with no romance it would be a little more difficult. But see the point is you can have a romance that impacts the outcome of the game while not deadlocking that game.

 

3. Exactly my point, importing the characters will present design issues with game balance and add to the dev time if they have to think about how to balance it to contend with skills that players could bring over from the first game. This also brings up the sequel arguement as well, in a non-sequel sequel you would not have to concern yourself with this issue since the same characters would not come into play, however one of the things that made jedi Knight2 sweet was you got to continue with Kyle Katarn a memorable character that made his mark on starwars so much that he was included in the New Jedi Order Novels. This character impact is something that should not be overlooked with considering a sequel with the same characters or leaving them fade into the mist.

 

5. I don't know about other players but I'd rather have a little less customization and a little more story. If your looking for the ultimate customization then StarWars Galaxies or everquest might be a game better suited to your tastes however the choice to have your character in 50 different looking armor choices really does nothing for me if the story sucks. This is an age old arguement everyone wants their character to look different and the answer to this is as simple as "The Sims" and some of the BG2 editors if customization is a high demand in a game title such as KOTOR then perhaps when building sequel the Dev team could consider allowing custom content, this would end the problem of people wanting more customization and at the same time it would free up the Dev team to work on other aspects of the game such as battles,stories,romance,art and so forth

 

 

you are only partly right on why the Devs shy away from PC a lot of times. While it is big time true that profits is always the driving force for the gaming market and software pirates eat into the profits of PC games it also has to be noted that piracy is also quickly becoming a problem in the consoles as well, with modifications of your console you can play pirated games so not even the consoles are safe any longer. A factor that you forgot to mention is the easy of Dev on a console system, a console system is a snapshop of technology that never changes. The specs of an Xbox is the same as it will be a month or even a year from now so this allows the Dev team to make a game based on one set of specs instead of having to consider lower quality machines. As an example when you have an Xbox you are assured of being able to play KOTOR however the same is not true of the PC since with the computer you now have to take into consideration peoples current hardware. This factor weighs on the Dev mind since maximizing profits means maximizing sales and if 1000s of PC users can not play the game because of hardware requirements then thats 1000s of lost sales, however many PC users will upgrade to play a great game and KOTOR is a great game so that also can not be overlooked.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

1. I will bet that most of the players at least tried the romance to some level, however it is not necessary to predispose the game to one way or the other. If you want a completely different game with no reference to the previous then simply do not mention any events. However if you want to reference the previous game you could mention a few events which would help first time players to the second game. The romance- this could be just briefly mentioned so that first time players know there could be something develop between characters(its not necessary to guide them through the process but an idle mention might peek their interest in the love story aspect of the game and lets face it unless a person is from under a rock everyone knows Star Wars is space Opera at its finest). You could mention the StarForge while not making specifics.

 

The key here is NOT to make a KOTOR clone where you follow the same format; start out as a joe nobody and end up the savior or the evil dude of the known universe, while its a good format it could not be the best format. One of the things that made Starwars so good in the first place was the continuing stories(what happens in one impacts the other). The only downfall here is that in doing a sequel you would have to start with one extreme or the other and decide as a Dev which ending you wanted to base the sequel off of.

 

Under odd numbering system- HEY its my numbering system so its got to be odd :D

 

1: I referenced FF because when you look at it as a whole the story is complete it has a rewarding start, middle and ending. That is a rare thing in games anymore most spend to much time on the middle and skimp on the ending, if you want a game with no real story play quake but when most play a RPG they want a story with either an ending or a (to be continued) and not something that looks like it was tossed together in a few minutes. So a longer ending with more feeling of completion is always a must unless it is building towards a sequel.

 

2. For romance, if the Dev wants it in there then there should be at least an effort to make it rewarding to follow through to its end. The romance in BG2 and KOTOR was really not very rewarding it was more like an extended sidequest whos ending didn't really leave you feeling anything much. In a game like KOTOR it is interesting that you can screwup the relationship however doing one or the other option really does not impact gameplay, it would be nice if a romance that was put into the game could impact the game play somewhat. As an example certain events in KOTOR could be made easier or harder depending on if you tanked the relationship. My point here is a Romance in StarWars is always a event that impacts the world around them, to make this point just watch the films, so any relationship in a game should include some pitfalls and some advantages and not be a taxed up sidequest that has no benefits.

You would not have to follow any relationship in the game but it could be there if you decided to undertake it and the benefits and pitfalls could either make you undertake it or avoid it and that is the essence of Roleplaying which is making a choice and living with the outcome. As an example ONLY you enter a romance and your love is killed in a scripted sequence it could give you reason to roleplay your character to the tune of falling to the darkside or staying true to the light. Where as if you don't initiate a romance and the character is killed then there is no negative outcome. SAme example..your love has fallen to the darkside it could be easier to pull her back if you have a romance, in contrast with no romance it would be a little more difficult. But see the point is you can have a romance that impacts the outcome of the game while not deadlocking that game.

 

3. Exactly my point, importing the characters will present design issues with game balance and add to the dev time if they have to think about how to balance it to contend with skills that players could bring over from the first game. This also brings up the sequel arguement as well, in a non-sequel sequel you would not have to concern yourself with this issue since the same characters would not come into play, however one of the things that made jedi Knight2 sweet was you got to continue with Kyle Katarn a memorable character that made his mark on starwars so much that he was included in the New Jedi Order Novels. This character impact is something that should not be overlooked with considering a sequel with the same characters or leaving them fade into the mist.

 

5. I don't know about other players but I'd rather have a little less customization and a little more story. If your looking for the ultimate customization then StarWars Galaxies or everquest might be a game better suited to your tastes however the choice to have your character in 50 different looking armor choices really does nothing for me if the story sucks. This is an age old arguement everyone wants their character to look different and the answer to this is as simple as "The Sims" and some of the BG2 editors if customization is a high demand in a game title such as KOTOR then perhaps when building sequel the Dev team could consider allowing custom content, this would end the problem of people wanting more customization and at the same time it would free up the Dev team to work on other aspects of the game such as battles,stories,romance,art and so forth

 

 

you are only partly right on why the Devs shy away from PC a lot of times. While it is big time true that profits is always the driving force for the gaming market and software pirates eat into the profits of PC games it also has to be noted that piracy is also quickly becoming a problem in the consoles as well, with modifications of your console you can play pirated games so not even the consoles are safe any longer. A factor that you forgot to mention is the easy of Dev on a console system, a console system is a snapshop of technology that never changes. The specs of an Xbox is the same as it will be a month or even a year from now so this allows the Dev team to make a game based on one set of specs instead of having to consider lower quality machines. As an example when you have an Xbox you are assured of being able to play KOTOR however the same is not true of the PC since with the computer you now have to take into consideration peoples current hardware. This factor weighs on the Dev mind since maximizing profits means maximizing sales and if 1000s of PC users can not play the game because of hardware requirements then thats 1000s of lost sales, however many PC users will upgrade to play a great game and KOTOR is a great game so that also can not be overlooked.

The StarForge is a constant. It dosnt matter what choices you made during the game the StarForge was always going to be there. It's a an element common to everyone who has played KOTOR.

Where as things that depend upon player choice are not. The romances in KOTOR were not very well done compared to those in BGII.

 

Most stories have a hero that dosnt discover his true heritage right away. Take Luke he was brought up as a moisture farmer. It was only a "chance" meeting that led him on the path to being a Jedi otherwise he would have been toasted by StormTroopers like the rest of the family.

These sorts of things are generally much easier to carry off in a story where you dont have that old element of choice to screw things up. Imagine in SW was an RPG and you chose not to chase after R2. No more story unless you expend the effort to write multiple paths to get you to the same place.

 

1. True but the best way to differenciate would be like this. FF is a story you experience. A classic RPG is a story you write within a given set of parameters.

The Japanese are very demanding about closure in a game , as they are about complete characters. Interesting piece on Gamestop recently about tips for breaking into the Japanese market.

 

2. Viconia was a rewarding romance at least from my characters perspective. While love is a good motivator again you are faced with the problem of if you want to use it as a plot device the character has to go along with that. Unless you remove their freedom of choice.

 

3. There are always problems with direct sequels in RPGs. In JK II the character grew along the path that the designers chose from JK. Same with Yuna in FFX-2.

In both cases Kyle and Yuna were not significantly more powerful than they were at the start of the previous game. Because Yuna was effectively starting over in a new class and growth is never really a major aspect of an FPS so Kyle never changed a great deal statistically.

Where as if you put a level 20 character (or party) into a game it basically dictates the whole design.

 

5. There are a bajillion JRPGs which follow the strong story less customisation mold. There is a greater tradition of choice in the classic RPG's and that choice comes at a price of a weaker story. But its one that many people are more than willing to pay.

I do wonder how succesful KOTOR would have been had it not hidden its plot twist so well and had you playing a specific character from the start PST style. It's not so much that the character needs to look different. As the character needs to be different. If you took two peoples experiences of and FF game, they would be quite similiar (dscounting combat results and secrets) . If you took two peoples experiences of KOTOR then they would be different. The chance of getting two people who picked the exact same options would be pretty high.

 

There wasnt really a need to go into detail as all those things you mention can be summed up by costs and sales anyway.

[Judge Hades]

I am not particular fond of Japanesse RPGs as a whole.

[Darque]

They do tend to lack depth.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

They do tend to lack depth.

No they lack choice. The depth puts most of the non Japanese RPG efforts to shame. Dont confuse depth with choice.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

While depth is not the same as choice, some also lack depth. Specially earlier console RPGs.

 

EDIT: Also don't forget that some of the worst dialogues ever in videogames come from console RPGs. FF7 is quite likely the highest representative of that problem.