A Strange New Trend in RPG videogames

[Gabrielle]

Boo hoo!

[Walsingham]

Dont forget about the rabid marmots, they will bring great terror and calamity to the sinners..

 

 

 

(btw, was that a pink floyd reference?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Not intentionally. It was a Hunter S Thompson reference. *sniff* I miss that crazy bastard.

 

As for unfinished, well that different. A lack of content is just pookkake.

[J.E. Sawyer]

I don't want a bulletproof game.  I want a finished working game.  If Obsidian cannot deliver tell me now and I'll buy someone else's games.

I'm sure most companies can deliver finished working games under favorable circumstances. Their ability to create those circumstances fluctuates.

[metadigital]

I don't want a bulletproof game.  I want a finished working game.  If Obsidian cannot deliver tell me now and I'll buy someone else's games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure most companies can deliver finished working games under favorable circumstances. Their ability to create those circumstances fluctuates.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an interesting statement.

 

Were I one with an over-enthusiastic fervour for inference, I would probably conclude that recent Obsidian development projects might have included one without "favorable circumstances" ...

 

[The Coordinator]

"Games are only released, never finished!".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

True, but that

[alanschu]

Games were also made for joy because they didn't cost 10 million to make.

[Gromnir]

as long as you jokers keep buying games that is buggy, game developers will continue to make 'em.

 

game companies track this stuff close. after ps:t's buggy release, did fans get cautious? were there initial hesitance to buy iwd, a game that would have similar fans as ps:t? after atari released toee or nwn did they see fans shy away from thir subsequent releases?

 

am guessing that for all the venom and vitriol fans direct at publishers and developers following a buggy release, those fans do little else to back up their threats. next game gets released, and fans go out and buy on day 1... same as it ever was.

 

collectively, fans o' pc games is getting older and better educated... so why is we so damned stoopid. as a group we continue to curse and scream 'bout bugs... but then we not change our buying practices at all. stoopid.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kaftan Barlast]

I was clever and didnt buy Bloodlines, and look what happened to Troika

[Leferd]

I was clever and didnt buy Bloodlines, and look what happened to Troika

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, they did release buggy game after buggy game...

 

A victory for consumerism!

 

...although I did like Bloodlines. AND bought it on the first day...

[Brickyard]

I don't want a bulletproof game.  I want a finished working game.  If Obsidian cannot deliver tell me now and I'll buy someone else's games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure most companies can deliver finished working games under favorable circumstances. Their ability to create those circumstances fluctuates.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well this sort of infers that something happened that a lot of us think did happen, and that the publisher is the reason K2 is so poor (especially at the end). And when the only patch released messes up the game more (for some of us), and there's no hope in sight for a second patch (movies and music don't count), the whole thing comes off rather poorly.

 

My question (which you probably can't actually answer, since I understand you weren't at the company then, but perhaps at least someone at Obsidian can address, or at least read, if not respond) would be the following:

 

When Obsidian accepted the job of K2, did they think they were getting favorable working circumstances, and only realize later that they were wrong, or did they actually know the situation would be bad, and take the job with the time constraints so they could put their company "on the map"?

 

If the answer is the former, then I hope Obsidian learned a LOT from the experience and start to take on projects they feel they can actually do a good job on. With so few quality RPGs being made (IMO), I'd love another company to start developing good ones.

 

If the answer is the later, and I really hope it isn't, I'll be honest and say that I hope Obsidian goes the way of Troika. I don't think it is, but I also wonder how anyone at Obsidian could have actually thought they'd make a quality game in such a short amount of time.

 

In the end, I just want some good RPGs to play.

[Cantousent]

Folks suggest that "if they only took a few months longer, then the bugs would have been stomped flat." This is simply wrongminded. If a developer has four extra months, the publisher is probably demanding more content, which only means more opportunity to include bugs.

 

I'm with Walsingham on this one. I don't mind minor bugs in a complex and entertaining game. I'm willing to put up with minor irritation for extra goodies. That means that I'm less irritated with bugs in my RPGs than I am with bugs in, say, an FPS.

 

Another factor is support. I didn't ever have much of a problem with the bugs in Troika's games. What I hated, however, was the fact that they would trivialize bugs or claim they didn't exist. NWN, on the other hand had quite a few bugs. I didn't like NWN all that much, but one thing that I could not deny was the fact that Bioware supported the game. They didn't shirk their duties after the game hit the shelves.

 

Some of that has to do with the publisher, so maybe Atari is at fault for some of Troika's problems. Sure. Nevertheless, the fate that befell Troika might await Atari or any other developer who fails in this regard.

[alanschu]

Any bug that doesn't break the game I can actually live with. A lot of them make me laugh actually.

 

Like Atton one time started doing some quick sitting and standing when I was talking to him one time, and looked like he was getting a real work out. Sure it'd be nice if it wasn't there, but it was entertaining in its own way.

 

As for not buying games, I do tend to limit myself a bit more than in the past. I bought SH3 after two patches had already come out, and even Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory had a patch out by the time I bought it. Although Splinter Cell is a very polished game IMO and I don't recall any bugs, even non-breaking humourous ones, in the single player at all. It's coop was apparently buggy, and while they did patch it, my roommate and I are having problems maintaining connection on the last level (and only the last level) which is frustrating. The only real beef I have with the game is that in coop, sometimes I feel it's too picky about a coop move. Sometimes you HAVE to be standing for it to enable properly, and sometimes you HAVE to be crouched. A bit too picky at times. But crazy enough fun that I can let it pass.

[metadigital]

Folks suggest that "if they only took a few months longer, then the bugs would have been stomped flat."  This is simply wrongminded.  If a developer has four extra months, the publisher is probably demanding more content, which only means more opportunity to include bugs.

 

I'm with Walsingham on this one.  I don't mind minor bugs in a complex and entertaining game.  I'm willing to put up with minor irritation for extra goodies.  That means that I'm less irritated with bugs in my RPGs than I am with bugs in, say, an FPS.

 

Another factor is support.  I didn't ever have much of a problem with the bugs in Troika's games.  What I hated, however, was the fact that they would trivialize bugs or claim they didn't exist.  NWN, on the other hand had quite a few bugs.  I didn't like NWN all that much, but one thing that I could not deny was the fact that Bioware supported the game.  They didn't shirk their duties after the game hit the shelves.

 

Some of that has to do with the publisher, so maybe Atari is at fault for some of Troika's problems.  Sure.  Nevertheless, the fate that befell Troika might await Atari or any other developer who fails in this regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate Eidos for their support of that last Lara Croft abomination.

[Gabrielle]

I was clever and didnt buy Bloodlines, and look what happened to Troika

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is a damn shame. I like Bloodlines and Arcanum. Plus Troika had some of the original Fallout team working there.

[metadigital]

The Edsel was meant to be a good idea, too.

[Gabrielle]

The Edsell was meant to be a good idea, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[metadigital]

Edsel

[GhostofAnakin]

I can just imagine how good Vampire: tM could have been if given more development time, and/or better post-release support.

[metadigital]

Yeah, it could've been a contender! A Mustang or a Viper, not an Edsel ...

[Gabrielle]

VTM is a good game, provided that you have the patch installed. Yeah they did screw up when they released it too soon before doing a better job of working the bugs out. Just a shame that Troika died after only three games. Call it fan loyality to developers

 

Interplay/BiS>Troika>Obsidian

Bioware

Blizzard

 

I usually buy and play games from these companies.

[metadigital]

VTM is a good game, provided that you have the patch installed. Yeah they did screw up when they released it too soon before doing a better job of working the bugs out. Just a shame that Troika died after only three games. Call it fan loyality to developers

 

Interplay/BiS>Troika>Obsidian

Bioware

Blizzard

 

I usually buy and play games from these companies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's "Fan loyalty".

[GhostofAnakin]

I think stability seemed to be a bigger issue than actual "bugs", though. Atleast in my experience.

 

Also, they really should have made it explicit on the box that the recommended specs should be 1 GB of RAM. The recommended/required specs were the most misleading I've ever seen on a video game box.

[Cantousent]

I actually liked Bloodlines. It was a fun game, even with the bugs. It had a richer, darker world than ToEE. It wasn't empty like Arcanum. In many ways, it was the game worthy of the reputation Troika had enjoyed undeserved lo these many years.

 

Still, Troika shot themselves in the foot. They produced buggy games and blamed everyone except themselves for their failures. Anyone remember the interview where Troika said that the problem was their ideas were too complex for the programmers? nuts.

[Gabrielle]

The specs are misleading. It does require a lot of RAM and a high end video card. One my other computer it plays slow, graphic wise, and I can only think the problem could be the 9200 ATI video card. On this one I have a 9600 ATI and don't suffer the graphic slowdown. The load times on either machine are slow as molasses.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

They produced buggy games and blamed everyone except themselves for their failures.

 

Tim Cain said on occasion that Troika were to blame for ToEE's problems. Even in interviews.

 

Troika were a mixed bag, irresponsible in some situations but also found themselves in some awkward cases with publishers... Leon Boyarsky for instance examplified that they had to rush for Arcanum's deadline because of Sierra's pressure... Only to have the release halted because the non-English versions weren't translated yet.

 

Anyone remember the interview where Troika said that the problem was their ideas were too complex for the programmers?  nuts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was a pretty iffy excuse. The problem wasn't so much with the complexity of the ideas but rather the amount of people working on them or fine tuning the game. Arcanum was developed with a very small amount of people... I'm not sure of the exact number so any guesses would be just that; however it was a pretty small number of people and resources for a game with an included toolset and multiplayer capabilities.