Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Jediphile]

Well, to be honest, I wasn't referring to your choices of Ziost and Khar Delba (I haven't actually heard of those worlds), so much as the inclusion of Alderaan and Sleheyron on your list. Personally, I've been thinking of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III taking place in the Unknown Regions for more than just its finale, and I think it would be more interesting to take such an opportunity to allow players to explore planets never before seen or heard of, rather than simply visiting worlds which fans of the Expanded Universe are already familiar with (like Alderaan or Sleheyron).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, okay. I misunderstood. Sorry for the confusion - mea culpa.

 

Anyway, I included world of the Republic (Coruscant, Alderaan, Myrkr, and Sleheyron) because I don't think the player should begin as Revan or the Exile, but rather as a new, young jedi. So starting on Coruscant, I'd have the player following in Revan's footsteps through several known worlds to a few unknown ones.

 

So there's plot reason why I chose that list, though I admit that some are there because I want them to. Alderaan is there simply because we've never explored it. Same thing about Sleheyron - we heard about it in KotOR1 and 2 (and it was actually supposed to be in KotOR1 - just check here ). Myrkr is there because I really wanted a planet, where the jedi are, for once, disadvantaged - it would be a nice twist and fit well with something I'd like to see in the ending.

 

I could include more worlds on my list, in which case they'd all be Sith worlds, though I might not include Korriban or Malachor V, since we've seen one in two games now, and the other is destroyed. I'd much rather see Sith worlds like Ch'hodos or Rhelg.

[GhostofAnakin]

You know... for some odd reason, I think that a game called "Knights of the Old Republic should take place in the Old Republic, not in some obscure comic geekfest whose actual relation to Star Wars is purely coincidental.  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[metadigital]

From a financial standpoint, when you have far more ships, you may not want to put shields on all of them.

...

Plus, the Empire never believed a war would be won or lost with fighters.  They were all about capital ships, which always got shields.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in all the wars on planet Earth that involved aircraft (basically WW2: it is the only one that drained resources to enable the comparison to be made), the limiting factor hasn't been the budget to build aeroplanes, it's been the training and provision of pilots. Maybe the TIE ighters were as simple to fly as a modern-day car?

From a financial standpoint, when you have far more ships, you may not want to put shields on all of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's how the Empire saw it, yes, but it also cost them a lot of pilots who switched to the other side.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe they switched due to political allegiances, a lack of commitment to the Empire, rather than to fight on the side with better ships. I don't recall too many US troops switching sides to use the Panzer Type VI TIGER I, even if the Shermans were regarded as "Purple-Heart Boxes". :D

[Jediphile]

From a financial standpoint, when you have far more ships, you may not want to put shields on all of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's how the Empire saw it, yes, but it also cost them a lot of pilots who switched to the other side.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe they switched due to political allegiances, a lack of commitment to the Empire, rather than to fight on the side with better ships. I don't recall too many US troops switching sides to use the Panzer Type VI TIGER I, even if the Shermans were regarded as "Purple-Heart Boxes". :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I was referring to the blatant disregard for the lives of their pilots that the Empire demonstrated, but there you go...

[metadigital]

Ah, but there weren't too many Zero pilots switching sides, either.

 

The propaganda that the Allies didn't take prisoners, combined with thier cultural attitude that surrender meant a total lack of honour, and the fact that the pilots had families back in Japan that were liable to be used as hostages should they think that kamikaze wasn't such a brilliant rearguard strategem; all are factors that the Empire could, and presumably would, use to keep their armed forces motivated.

[Darth_Schmarth]

From a financial standpoint, when you have far more ships, you may not want to put shields on all of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's how the Empire saw it, yes, but it also cost them a lot of pilots who switched to the other side.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe they switched due to political allegiances, a lack of commitment to the Empire, rather than to fight on the side with better ships. I don't recall too many US troops switching sides to use the Panzer Type VI TIGER I, even if the Shermans were regarded as "Purple-Heart Boxes". :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I was referring to the blatant disregard for the lives of their pilots that the Empire demonstrated, but there you go...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Allied armour tactics in '44-'45 built very much on sacrifice. The basic idea was that it'd take four Shermans to take out one Tiger, which meant that three Shermans were to draw the Tiger's attention (and get virtually doomed in the process) while the fourth flanked it and fired from close range.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Actually, Allied armour tactics in '44-'45 built very much on sacrifice. The basic idea was that it'd take four Shermans to take out one Tiger, which meant that three Shermans were to draw the Tiger's attention (and get virtually doomed in the process) while the fourth flanked it and fired from close range.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Russian tactics are even "better".

 

You cant really win a war with airpower anyway unless you just want to reduce everything to slag. Some poor smuck still has to be there to take the hills.

[Darth Sprawl]

IMO kotor3 should start off with Disciple and Handmaiden flying the Ebon Hawk somewhere, and it exploding into stardust! Seriously, I am ready for a new ship, aren't you?

 

I would like to have a much smaller ship...a 2 seater with an external astromech droid slot. The cutscenes when you leave planets/space stations should be the minigames(instead pazaak or racing) where you have the possibiliy of death. Of course, there should be an auto save before any engagement too. Enough with the overused sith 6 pack. How about dog fighting with some bounty hunter looking to collect on you? Pissing off some spacer in a cantina would be cool too or how about raiding another ship?

 

Without a Millienium Falcon sized transport, it forces you to be very particular with the npc you want in your party. Can't other npc's just meet up with you, instead of catching a ride too? The astromech droid slot can be for different types you find/purchase/trade/etc. along your journey. They should be a destoyable commodity in your party too. If they were a viable weapons platform with a universal built-in med/work bench, it would give us a reason to spend some serious skills/credits tinkering with it. That particular model of droid shouldn't LU like a normal pc/npc.

 

IE: Mandalore says, "I am going to join your party." You say, "My party is full." He turns around and uses his modified heavy weapons repeater to obliterate your astromich droid and says, "I know where you can find a better unit. I had one built for someone when I was thuggin' on Taris...let's go."

[metadigital]

...

IE:  Mandalore says, "I am going to join your party."  You say, "My party is full."  He turns around and uses his modified heavy weapons repeater to obliterate your astromich droid and says, "I know where you can find a better unit.  I had one built for someone when I was thuggin' on Taris...let's go."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can't kill off the hero of the narrative like that!

[Vagrant 66]

Continued from the first post of page one...

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Part 6

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The Ebon Hawk lands in Anchorhead once again, but now the Czerka corp. are nowhere to be seen, conversations with people will explain about the flawed mining plans and how Czerka have apparently set up operations on Naboo. Much Anchorhead is the same, although some has changed and some has shifted. The hunters lodge is now gone, in its place a small market. Yuka Laka

[Titan_5]

Right,

I can't even keep up with all the subjects...

 

Why do they keep on moving these threads??

 

An interesting tactic used by the russians was to send dogs with explosives to "attack"enemy tanks. Unfortunately (for the russians and the dogs )these dogs were trained on russian tanks so when released on to the battlefield they went after russian tanks...

 

Roma es caput mundi.

 

Anyways,

I think that they should keep the Ebon Hawk, a two seater would cause havoc with your roster.. You would be forced to kick off or kill one of your guys on every planet. (Seeing as that some people have a lot of use on one planet and none on others.)

 

I would love to be able to upgrade the Ebon Hawk (or equivalent) and the Swoop Bike. Having flying missions wouldn't be too bad either but I think some people would hate it abd raise hell about it.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I would love to be able to upgrade the Ebon Hawk (or equivalent) and the Swoop Bike.  Having flying missions wouldn't be too bad either but I think some people would hate it abd raise hell about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A two seater would be unworkable..

 

I want a ship that I can make my own. The Hawk never really feels like your ship. I want a ship that I can customise and evolve, perhaps even sell on. You could even stick in some Elite style trading if your going to have a cargo ship anyway , may as well make some use of it.

 

KOTOR really needs some space action. But it's not easy to make that a roleplaying event. Space action tends to be something that is under the players control and since the KOTOR characters dont have any sort of piloting or gunnery skills it's all down to the player.

 

It's only the Buck Rogers RPGs I can think of that had space combat as well as the usual RPG stuff, but it wasnt the most exiting aspect of the game. (Buck Rogers games are kind of the BR version of the AD&D goldbox games).

[GhostofAnakin]

KOTOR really needs some space action. But it's not easy to make that a roleplaying event. Space action tends to be something that is under the players control and since the KOTOR characters dont have any sort of piloting or gunnery skills it's all down to the player.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wouldn't they just have to add skills like "Starship Piloting" and "Starship Gunnery" to your character template?

 

As for upgrades to the Ebon Hawk, they could just be parts that give bonuses to supplement the PC's (or whomever is the pilot) specific skills. For instance, upgrading from a single laser cannon to a quad laser (like the Falcon has) would give, I dunno, a +1 to the gunner's gunnery skill, and add however extra damage above that of the original laser cannon.

 

But I think the main problem would be how the combat is actually handled. The turn-based/real time hybrid that they use for single combat might look rather silly in a space battle if you pause, click, pause, click for each action. But if they can find a way to do it I think that'd be a great new feature. It would actually make the Ebon Hawk valuable, and would make spending on upgrades an important part of the game.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Wouldn't they just have to add skills like "Starship Piloting" and "Starship Gunnery" to your character template?

 

As for upgrades to the Ebon Hawk, they could just be parts that give bonuses to supplement the PC's (or whomever is the pilot) specific skills.  For instance, upgrading from a single laser cannon to a quad laser (like the Falcon has) would give, I dunno, a +1 to the gunner's gunnery skill, and add however extra damage above that of the original laser cannon.

 

But I think the main problem would be how the combat is actually handled.  The turn-based/real time hybrid that they use for single combat might look rather silly in a space battle if you pause, click, pause, click for each action.  But if they can find a way to do it I think that'd be a great new feature.  It would actually make the Ebon Hawk valuable, and would make spending on upgrades an important part of the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont see why not. I'm not familiar with the D20 variant but it must have some sort of space combat rules.

 

It depends on the ship and how many actions it can take. A large capital ship would almost require some sort of stop and go action , but for a small ship it would just appear jerky as the workload just isnt there to keep you occupied.

 

One way to do it is to assign people tasks (including the PC) and then have the player handle the specific task. The problem with that is your probably going to be screaming when the AI pilots you into an asteroid for the umptenth time.

 

Then whatever task you gave yourself would be a mini game, but one that becomes easier or harder depending on your skills.

 

If I can draw on Command Mission for a moment. Each character has a signiture move which involves some sort of button pushing. But how long you get to do it is modified by how much weapon energy the character has at the time (or in the case of reels, how fast they spin).

 

In something like the the Hawk , you would probably need two gunners, a pilot and possibly co-pilot (perhaps adding their skills to the pilots). Someone to do running repairs (most likely a droid) etc.

[GhostofAnakin]

Then it's agreed this is a feature that needs to be added. Potential developer of KOTOR III take note. :D

[Hildegard]

An interesting tactic used by the russians was to send dogs with explosives to "attack"enemy tanks. Unfortunately (for the russians and the dogs )these dogs were trained on russian tanks so when released on to the battlefield they went after russian tanks...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

....stupid russians....

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Then it's agreed this is a feature that needs to be added.  Potential developer of KOTOR III take note.    :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I should dig out my WEG books. They have a formula for creating Star Wars games. Like how many chases, how many space battles how many drama interludes each scenerio should contain.

 

Come to think of it, the chase is another thing that you dont get in KOTOR. There isnt anything like the running battle through the death star where you have to keep moving because you cant win.

[metadigital]

Right,

I can't even keep up with all the subjects...

 

[1]Why do they keep on moving these threads??

 

[2]An interesting tactic used by the russians was to send dogs with explosives to "attack"enemy tanks. Unfortunately (for the russians and the dogs )these dogs were trained on russian tanks so when released on to the battlefield they went after russian tanks...

 

[3]Roma es caput mundi.

 

Anyways,

[4]I think that they should keep the Ebon Hawk, a two seater would cause havoc with your roster.. You would be forced to kick off or kill one of your guys on every planet. (Seeing as that some people have a lot of use on one planet and none on others.)

 

I would love to be able to upgrade the Ebon Hawk (or equivalent) and the Swoop Bike.  Having flying missions wouldn't be too bad either but I think some people would hate it abd raise hell about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Ours is not to question why ...

2. The Romans used tar-covered boars, set alight, to counter the Cathaginian's master weapon (elephants).

3. Is this refering to the comparison in the previous point? In any case:

magna veritas, et pr

[metadigital]

...

One way to do it is to assign people tasks (including the PC) and then have the player handle the specific task. The problem with that is your probably going to be screaming when the AI pilots you into an asteroid for the umptenth time.

 

Then whatever task you gave yourself would be a mini game, but one that becomes easier or harder depending on your skills.

 

If I can draw on Command Mission for a moment. Each character has a signiture move which involves some sort of button pushing. But how long you get to do it is modified by how much weapon energy the character has at the time (or in the case of reels, how fast they spin).

 

In something like the the Hawk , you would probably need two gunners, a pilot and possibly co-pilot (perhaps adding their skills to the pilots). Someone to do running repairs (most likely a droid) etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like this idea. That way, you can have, say, Atton as your co-pilot to help your PC as they are trained up in piloting, for example.

...

I should dig out my WEG books. They have a formula for creating Star Wars games. Like how many chases, how many space battles how many drama interludes each scenerio should contain.

 

Come to think of it, the chase is another thing that you dont get in KOTOR. There isnt anything like the running battle through the death star where you have to keep moving because you cant win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, there were very few encounters that had ended with the PC tactically withdrawing ... a mad mob atacking, like the Onderon battle, but with more opponents so there was no way to win, would be a nice twist.

[Darth Nuke]

Wouldn't that list of planets ignore the fact that Revan and the Exile went into the Unknown Regions, though?

 

Personally, I was thinking it'd be more interesting if Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III took the "Unknown Regions" opportunity to allow for the player to visit planets potentially never before even seen or spoken of in the rest of the Expanded Universe, rather than simply going to already-known worlds within the boundaries of the rest of the Expanded Universe's exploration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. The Sith planet should be new.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why would Sith worlds like Khar Delba (and Khar Shian) or Ziost be outer rim worlds? It's true that the fleet of Empress Teta followed Naga Sadow back to the Sith empire, but note how the name of the system they went to is never mentioned in "Fall of the Sith Empire" - there is nothing to suggest the Republic has any knowledge of worlds like Ziost.

 

The fact that the Daragons were held captive on Ziost proves nothing, since they were taken there as prisoners and taken away by Naga Sadow in secret.

 

Khar Delba could be known, since Jori escaped to the Republic from there (and so would have the hyperspace coordinates), except everyone ignores her warnings and the ship is confiscated before anyone can copy the logs (indeed, it seems unlikely anyone obtained them, since Ssk Kahorr appeared very interested in keeping the matter secret so he could use the ship to explore the hyperspace routes for his own benefit alone).

 

Korriban is obviously known, but note what Kreia says at the end of KotOR2, when she tells the Exile about Revan:

 

"It is because he remembered what lay buried here - this place, its teachings. It paved the way to Korriban, you know, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark."

 

So clearly Kreia is referring to the Sith Empire that Naga Sadow was the dark lord of and more than suggests that they threat of the "true" Sith comes from there. And the central world of that empire is Ziost until otherwise established.

 

Don't forget that just because we've heard about these worlds in Star Wars canon (or EU), that doesn't mean that they are known to the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True but we don't need old Sith planets to fill the Sith planet void. They are outer Rim worlds because they are located on the rim. I'd figure that this would lead to a original Sith Empire with new planets and something new to look at. With hopefully better looking Sith instead of the Massassi.

[Jediphile]

True but we don't need old Sith planets to fill the Sith planet void. They are outer Rim worlds because they are located on the rim. I'd figure that this would lead to a original Sith Empire with new planets and something new to look at. With hopefully better looking Sith instead of the Massassi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How can they be on the Rim when they are unknown? Besides, who says they are on the rim? Kreia's comments clearly seems to suggest they're not.

 

But otherwise I'd agree - a thousand years is a long time, and true Sith shouldn't just be carbon copies of Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow (though Sadow was more human than most Sith at the time). I do want to see Khar Delba and Ziost, but I don't want to see them as they were in comic books that were set a thousand years into the past. The Sith should have evolved and rebuilt their forces by now - they have new ships, new weapons, and new technology.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

True but we don't need old Sith planets to fill the Sith planet void. They are outer Rim worlds because they are located on the rim. I'd figure that this would lead to a original Sith Empire with new planets and something new to look at. With hopefully better looking Sith instead of the Massassi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How can they be on the Rim when they are unknown? Besides, who says they are on the rim? Kreia's comments clearly seems to suggest they're not.

 

But otherwise I'd agree - a thousand years is a long time, and true Sith shouldn't just be carbon copies of Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow (though Sadow was more human than most Sith at the time). I do want to see Khar Delba and Ziost, but I don't want to see them as they were in comic books that were set a thousand years into the past. The Sith should have evolved and rebuilt their forces by now - they have new ships, new weapons, and new technology.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I see a single golden barge or space lobster I'm returning the game.

[Jediphile]

Part 6

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The Ebon Hawk lands in Anchorhead once again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh no, Tatooine again. Well, I shouldn't put it like that, it's just that I'm so tired of seeing Tatooine show up just about every single movie, game plot and novel in Star Wars - that Tatooine was not present in KotOR2 was one of the high points.

 

Besides, I don't really see much reasons for it here. HK-47 sets a trap for the party, they find more Naga Sadow clues, and they encounter a wayward Sith. All of this could just as easily have happened on just about any other planet (well, not Manaan perhaps...).

 

Incidentally, Darth Aumen and Ben should be mutually exclusive - they will both follow you in the ship, but you can't take them both in the group at the same time, because they won't accept each other, and the more you use one of them in the group, the more influence you will lose with the other.

 

The Manaan interlude is nice enough, but if it's skippable anyway, there doesn't seem to be much point. And the way he runs is so unsatisfying. If the point is that he has plot functions that cannot be met now, then I'd rather say you should let him be several levels above the main character and make him invincible as well. That way the main character can escape instead, when it becomes clear that the battle cannot be won, and you can instead have the main character run away with Darth Voult standing behind saying that it's not over and that you'll meet again. You could also have either Ben or Darth Aumen sacrifice him or herself to allow your escape. The problem with that is that it is so forced and so much like Bastila's sacrifice against Malak and Kreia's against Sion. That is unless you let the sacrificed character die. That could be rather strong, sort of like Qui-Gon's death. If you really want to be nasty, then you have the one that the main character has the highest influence with make the sacrifice, so that the main character must now use the rival, who no longer likes you so much, since you seemed to prefer his or her rival

 

And Naboo?

 

Oh dear - gungans! <Shudder>

[Jediphile]

If I see a single golden barge or space lobster I'm returning the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, that was pretty lame... Definitely not a selling point, so for heaven's sake DON'T!!

[metadigital]

...

Incidentally, Darth Aumen and Ben should be mutually exclusive - they will both follow you in the ship, but you can't take them both in the group at the same time, because they won't accept each other, and the more you use one of them in the group, the more influence you will lose with the other.

...

The problem with that is that it is so forced and so much like Bastila's sacrifice against Malak and Kreia's against Sion. That is unless you let the sacrificed character die. That could be rather strong, sort of like Qui-Gon's death. If you really want to be nasty, then you have the one that the main character has the highest influence with make the sacrifice, so that the main character must now use the rival, who no longer likes you so much, since you seemed to prefer his or her rival 

 

And Naboo? 

 

Oh dear - gungans!  <Shudder> 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I concur with the points above, especially the loss of the party member with whom the PC has the highest influence, forcing them to cooperate with their "rival". Excellent idea!

 

Naboo would be okay if the Gungans were all struck with laryngitis.