Happy Birthday USA

[Dark Moth]

Hmm since US goverment is murderous and leads world expansion that cost lives of thousands and you support it, I should've left this conversation long time ago

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Spoken like the truly ignorant. Yes, just leave because you have no idea what you're saying.

 

Since then, terrorists kill Isreali civilians almost every single day, for 30 years and no one in the world seems to care due to anti-semitism.

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Have you met any Israelis? The reason why a lot of people dislike them isn't because they're jewish, it's because they're so damned arrogant and full of themselves.

 

Why would the rest of the world care about this US protectorate? You give the little critters guns, and they run around sniping children, levelling villages with their tanks. Your proteges are just as dumb as the "terrorists" they're fighting. The only difference is that they're better equipped.

 

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Spoken like another one of the truly ignorant. Have you even been to Israel? If you haven't, then shut up. Your talk about them sniping children is completely false, and the only time they level villages is when they are actually fighting terrorists - you know, the ones who blow themselves up on buses and marketplaces? The ones who target civilians whether they be men, women, or children? The same ones who also danced in the streets when 9/11 happened? Yup, those are the ones. And unlike the terrorists they fight, they don't actually purposely target civilians.

 

[Edit] I also, for one, have talked to Israelis (and they were far from arrogant) and people who have been to Israel and I actually pay attention to the news, so I can actually back up my statements.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Mothman

[Azarkon]

It's clear that people's political opinions aren't going to change over a message board, but what I find disturbing is the discrepancy that exists between the information people tend to have. It's my experience in political debates that they eventually result in every side bringing in their heavyweight facts and trying to cow the other side into submission with "reality", but if they were truly a reflection of reality most political debates would not exist, because there'd be a single set of facts and the only thing that'd be debated is one's opinions - and that's seldom debated in a political thread.

 

It seems to me that the absence of the complete set of facts is seriously hampering judgment on all sides of the political debate, and it of course suffices to say that a search through google isn't going to net you the truth anymore than watching the news will. That's what I personally find sad, that with all the avenues of information in the modern age, most people are still left to conceive of facts based only on their experience which, more often than not, are the facts constructed by their political climate and national interests.

[Hildegard]

I know I'm late but.......Happy 229th Birthday USA!

 

P.S. Man you're a young nation

[11XHooah]

Wow, this thread turned into a real cluster f*ck.

[random evil guy]

Why would the rest of the world care about this US protectorate? You give the little critters guns, and they run around sniping children, levelling villages with their tanks. Your proteges are just as dumb as the "terrorists" they're fighting. The only difference is that they're better equipped.

 

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Tends to happen when you give children weapons. What you really have to ask yourself is would they do it if they were not constantly trying to create a buffer zone between themselves and the people trying to blow them up. In the answer to that question is no, then they are not the source of the problem.

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yup. rocks are terrible weapons... we must destroy all rocks!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

yup. rocks are terrible weapons... we must destroy all rocks!

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When you can spot the difference between a rock and a grenade at 50 yards we can talk.

[Hildegard]

 

Peace demonstrations..................

 

 

Waste the mother****ers

 

Gold

[Calax]

I think Isreal shouldn't really be around.... no offence to you jews that read this it's just that the world governments feeling sorry for the hebrew people after ww2 and ended up kicking the palistinian people out just so we could set up their own state in the Holyest of places. Why not put it in mogolia? or perhaps cram it into the portions of china that are unpopulated. so the way i see it, yes the actions of the pla and Hamas are extreme and deplorable, they are at least somewhat justified.

[Walsingham]

Calax, Like I said in my post earlier, that's Great Britain's bad. Don't blame the US. And like I also said in my post we buckled under because there were a whole bunch of seriously terroristic jews blowing up British personnel in Palestine. Essentially we got fed up, and left the locals to get on with shooting each other instead of us.

 

Azarkon, you can't complain about people presenting facts to cow the oppostion. It beats the hell out of random ranting. Facts are at least something you can check up on, or should be. You take into account the number and the sources and you modifies your position, if necessary.

 

And while most people don't change their minds thorugh what they read, sometimes people do. And being a tedious bastard I don't like the thought that anyone might read some feckless yank bashing, and go along with it because no-one objected. I take issue with racism and bigotry wherever it shows up, against muslim, jew, american, and even though I don't like it, the welsh.

[Calax]

Calax, Like I said in my post earlier, that's Great Britain's bad. Don't blame the US. And like I also said in my post    we buckled under because there were a whole bunch of seriously terroristic jews blowing up British personnel in Palestine. Essentially we got fed up, and left the locals to get on with shooting each other instead of us.

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sorry i hadn't read the previous page. I thought i posted on it but appearently I didn't....

[EnderAndrew]

One can certainly argue that Isreal shouldn't have been created as a nation. I can see that point. But the Jewish people once claimed that land as their own before they were forcibly removed via slavery. They have just as much of a historical claim to that land as the Palistineans.

 

Why not put the Jews elsewhere?

 

Well Jerusalem seems to be the holiest city in the world for Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. Saying that Muslims can have access to the city, but not Jews is pretty silly.

[Oerwinde]

One can certainly argue that Isreal shouldn't have been created as a nation.  I can see that point.  But the Jewish people once claimed that land as their own before they were forcibly removed via slavery.  They have just as much of a historical claim to that land as the Palistineans.

 

Why not put the Jews elsewhere?

 

Well Jerusalem seems to be the holiest city in the world for Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.  Saying that Muslims can have access to the city, but not Jews is pretty silly.

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Jerusalem isn't even the holiest city for Muslims, Mecca is. Jerusalem is 2nd I believe.

[alanschu]

Admitting my complete ignorance of all things Islam, I thought "Mecca" was like a "Heaven" or "Nirvana" so to speak.

 

Like, I was in Gaming Mecca when I first played Deus Ex :D

[EnderAndrew]

Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. I always thought Mecca was their holiest place, and non-Muslims are not allowed near it. However, the History channel's recent show on Jerusalem had Muslims claiming Jerusalem was their holiest city.

[Nur Ab Sal]

One can certainly argue that Isreal shouldn't have been created as a nation.  I can see that point.  But the Jewish people once claimed that land as their own before they were forcibly removed via slavery.  They have just as much of a historical claim to that land as the Palistineans.

 

Why not put the Jews elsewhere?

 

Well Jerusalem seems to be the holiest city in the world for Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.  Saying that Muslims can have access to the city, but not Jews is pretty silly.

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Yeah they claimed that land through ruthless genocide and extermination so it was perfectly OK to kick them out. And Jews weren't any "slaves" in the Roman Empire, actually there were some repressions toward them, but they never lost personal freedom. Read history books unlettered man.

[jaguars4ever]

Happy Birthday Soloman Islanders!

 

For the July 7th is Independence Day in the superpower known as the Soloman Islands...where the world is secretly run by the resident Illuminati. :ph34r:

[Nur Ab Sal]

(w00t)

[Calax]

Well from a historic perspective the Muslims seem less than hellbent on not letting people into jerusalem, they are just hellbent on getting jerusalem, After all everybody decided it was a good idea to displace them in favor of a religion that is fairly small, I don't know the exact number but i think Judism is #6 or 7 on the top list of religions in terms of people who adhere to it.

[Cantousent]

The last great hope of mankind. May I not live to see the last day of the United States. I beg no forgiveness for my love of country. Happy birthday, indeed.

[Walsingham]

Nur: Attacking the Jews for fighting mean in that period is like criticising them for wearing sandals. It is total hypocrisy. Everyone was doing it. The Romans simply tried to do the same thing as Stalin and Beria - uproot a whole people as a supposed means of calming them down (the Chechens among others). Unsurprisingly, collective punishment didn't work.

 

How would you feel about the suggestion that just because we have terrorists claiming to represent Islam in the UK we toss out everyone who is Muslim and keep their stuff?

 

Ender: Historical 'right' simply can't be applied anywhere. Take South Africa for example. Everyone says the whites should leave completely, and hand Africa back to the Bantu. Yet in fact the first indigenous peoples of the area were the Bushmen and the Hottentots. The Bantu began slaughtering these simple and unblievably peaceable people long before we turned up, and had been moving south and occupying ther lands. We joined in, of course, but the point is that South Africa does not belong to the blacks, but to the creamy coffee people. There are only a few hundred bushmen left, eking out an existence on the verges of the Kalahari.

 

We shouldn't have set up the state of Israel in Palestine for the simple fact that the Palestinians were using it. However, if you read the civil service reports coming back they give the impression that it was virtually uninhabited. I am sure that wherever you suggested it be set up, people would already be living there and get annoyed. The better option I feel would have been universal acceptance, although I could just as well advocate that Unicorns carried the Jews to Alpha Centauri. .

 

However, many Jews feel that you can't get much more Jewish than wanting "Next year in Jerusalem." I'm just glad that being CofE I am only obliged to want milky tea and cricket.

 

Calax: No worries. I do post a lot at a time, and I forgive anyone who gets bored and doesn't read it all.

[EnderAndrew]

Historical right to a land isn't enough reason to transplant people on it's own. However, given the Jews had no place to live after the Holocaust, I think we had a unique situation.

[Darth Flatus]

The question of a Jewish state was a headache for British MPs long before WW2 and the holocaust. At one point somewhere in africa (i forget the place) was mooted.

[EnderAndrew]

MPs? What are those?

[Hildegard]

MP - Member of Parliament.

[Darth Flatus]

Our version of congressman