EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 The UN just ignored Rwanda like it wasn't happening. Some still maintain that genocide never took place, and to this day not much has been done about it. Some don't seen killing 800,000 people, mostly civilians as a war crime somehow. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/africa...nda/default.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1288230.stm The majority Hutus and minority Tutsis lived in the same area, spoke the same language and might as well have been the same people except a difference in height, and the names they called each other. They hated each other for childish reasons and the Tutsis were slaughtered en masse on speculation. Bush could have gone into Iraq sooner on the pure sympathy vote because initially we had very little intel. We didn't know where Al Quaeda was, who they cooperated with, etc. Saddam didn't publicly support terrorism, and give terrorists money. We could have played that angle, but we sought diplomacy and factual justice. We wanted to go after the people actually responsible. And the US has been responsible for quite a few regime-changes over the years. But the US also changes administrations every 4 or 8 years. The actions of this government 20-30 years ago are very different from the actions from the government of the past 10 years. We had a 9/11 commission here in the states to examine what went wrong, who was to blame, and what we can do better in the future. Rice and Bush were asked several times why we didn't just assassinate bin Laden before, since we knew he was a major threat. They responded that it is no longer policy of the US to engage in assassinations, or other illegal activities. We did try to kill Castro back in the day, but we no longer treat the world as our playground. The US was a worse reputation today, because people now know what we did in the past, but they don't judge us by our current actions of diplomacy. Edit: And by the way, go to factcheck.org - they are a non-partisan group who simply checks facts. They blast all sides when they are wrong, and they have verified that Halliburton hasn't given one penny to **** Cheney since Cheney stopped working for them. It probably doesn't hurt Halliburton that Cheney may have some friends there, but they didn't directly pay to get their contracts. Believe it or not, we prosecute government officials if we discover they illegally took bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/01/cun...d.ap/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I hope that you will end like Japan and Germany: disarmed, humiliated and divided. Then the world will be much safer place for us all, and Americans will finally learn some respect for older nations. You're so agressive last time, that you need a decent defeat that will transform your imperial identity. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 This war is about oil insofar as the US/UK would prefer someone other than Saddam Hussein to be sitting on top of the world's second largest oil reserves. In the past couple of years, they have discovered HUUUUUUUGE oil reserves in Oil Sands in Alberta. It skyrocketed up Canada's Oil Reserve estimates from like 5 billion barrels in 2003 to 180 billion barrels in 2004. http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/w...ntries-map.html And we just keep finding more and more. We recently found more of the coast of the maritimes, and recent analyses have shown that Alberta's Oil Sands are even more bountiful than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 I hope that you will end like Japan and Germany: disarmed, humiliated and divided. Then the world will be much safer place for us all, and Americans will finally learn some respect for older nations. You're so agressive last time, that you need a decent defeat that will transform your imperial identity. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I love how people have no appreciation for the money we give our nations in relief, in addition to the support our troops can given to other nations in times of need. Fundamentalists looking for war will continue to do so regardless of whether or not the US is in power. You are fooling youself if you truly believe the world would be a safer place without the US. Last time I checked, we did bail Europe out in two world wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I hope that you will end like Japan and Germany: disarmed, humiliated and divided. Then the world will be much safer place for us all, and Americans will finally learn some respect for older nations. You're so agressive last time, that you need a decent defeat that will transform your imperial identity. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whether we like it or not, much of the non-democratic world sees the US as the standard-bearer for liberal democracy. Such a defeat might be a welcome humiliation for US imperialism but would also inevitably be seen as a defeat for liberal democracy, and a disaster for much of the world. I would rather the US recovered from the shock of September 11 and rediscovered the best version of itself, instead of being tempted down the path of aggression. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Last time I checked, we did bail Europe out in two world wars. And helped finance Japan's recovery to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Last time I checked, we did bail Europe out in two world wars. And helped finance Japan's recovery to boot! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Germany's to a lesser extent. We helped rebuild car plants, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Did France/UK learn their lesson and help out rather than unleashing a fury of war reparations? Although help to rebuild Germany (and Japan) may have been motivated by an intention to make sure those Commie's in the Soviet Union didn't get there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Lets not forget the Marshall Plan. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 This war is about oil insofar as the US/UK would prefer someone other than Saddam Hussein to be sitting on top of the world's second largest oil reserves. In the past couple of years, they have discovered HUUUUUUUGE oil reserves in Oil Sands in Alberta. It skyrocketed up Canada's Oil Reserve estimates from like 5 billion barrels in 2003 to 180 billion barrels in 2004. http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/w...ntries-map.html And we just keep finding more and more. We recently found more of the coast of the maritimes, and recent analyses have shown that Alberta's Oil Sands are even more bountiful than before. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok, but as a percentage of the world's total reserves, how much is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Although help to rebuild Germany (and Japan) may have been motivated by an intention to make sure those Commie's in the Soviet Union didn't get there first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The selfish altruist I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Although help to rebuild Germany (and Japan) may have been motivated by an intention to make sure those Commie's in the Soviet Union didn't get there first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With Germany that was certainly the case as we had a showdown in Berlin. I don't think the USSR ever really considered moving into Japan however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Not sure about percentage. If you follow the link, you'll see: Saudi Arabia, 261.8 (yikes!) Canada, 180.0 Iraq, 112.5 UAE, 97.8 Kuwait, 96.5 Iran, 89.7 Venezuela, 77.8 Russia, 60.0 Libya, 29.5 Nigeria, 24.0 It looks like a lot! And given the rather steep drop off at #9, probably fairly significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Did France/UK learn their lesson and help out rather than unleashing a fury of war reparations? Although help to rebuild Germany (and Japan) may have been motivated by an intention to make sure those Commie's in the Soviet Union didn't get there first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah well that was the US' raison d'etre for tha latter half of the 20th century. Which is fair enough IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Saudi Arabia is also the home to Mecca, so it's a very important country. The UN's initial interest in the Iraq/Kuwait affair was probably more about Iraq possibly going into Saudi next. I've also been told that Alaska has vast ammounts of oil, but as we don't really tap it, we don't know how much is up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Not sure about percentage. If you follow the link, you'll see: Saudi Arabia, 261.8 (yikes!) Canada, 180.0 Iraq, 112.5 UAE, 97.8 Kuwait, 96.5 Iran, 89.7 Venezuela, 77.8 Russia, 60.0 Libya, 29.5 Nigeria, 24.0 It looks like a lot! And given the rather steep drop off at #9, probably fairly significant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Annexing Canada , thats eerily familiar I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I'm kind of surprised....although it could be expensive to get to. I know that's one big setback with Alberta's oil, is that a lot of it is in Oil Sands, which is more expensive to refine. Although I'm pretty sure the off coast stuff in the Atlantic is pure crude (I can't see it being anything else). It's going to be wierd...Newfoundland is going to be a "have" province. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 From what I understand, the first thing Alberta did was pay off their provincial debts. Smart move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Yeah, we have surpluses now. Although I'm sure a financial advisor could see it as a "bad" move, if we could possibly make more money investing our loans elsewhere. I'm old school though....I like not owing money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Not sure about percentage. If you follow the link, you'll see: Saudi Arabia, 261.8 (yikes!) Canada, 180.0 Iraq, 112.5 UAE, 97.8 Kuwait, 96.5 Iran, 89.7 Venezuela, 77.8 Russia, 60.0 Libya, 29.5 Nigeria, 24.0 It looks like a lot! And given the rather steep drop off at #9, probably fairly significant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It seems to be very expensive. It may take years before they are producing similar to Iraq's current output (even with its crappy pipes and stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 What was that? What seems to be expensive???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 What seems to be expensive???? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Top-Shelf Long Island Ice Tea. I had a place charge me $15 for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I love how people have no appreciation for the money we give our nations in relief, in addition to the support our troops can given to other nations in times of need. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, for example you've totally exploited Latin America and supported entire chain of incredibly bloody dictatorships there, for last 200 years (you even helped train their torture specialists). That's some relief Whether we like it or not, much of the non-democratic world sees the US as the standard-bearer for liberal democracy. Such a defeat might be a welcome humiliation for US imperialism but would also inevitably be seen as a defeat for liberal democracy, and a disaster for much of the world. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Entire world, especially third world poor nations, view USA as an opressor that exploits them. It's just a fact. USA is hated by billions of africans, asians and muslims. They don't care about outspoken "democratic ideals" that are so important for never hungry westerners. Besides why casual muslim should care about democracy if it never wasn't element of his civilization? He sees democracy as a propaganda, and steel fleets of us carriers that threatens the world stability, as a brutal reality. After Iraq War, rather European Union is seen as "third world friendly" and democracy bearer than USA, becouse we already spend more on relief programs than stupid americans and we aren't bullying anyone. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 What seems to be expensive???? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Top-Shelf Long Island Ice Tea. I had a place charge me $15 for one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My recommendation is to never buy alcohol at a place other than a liquor store. Oy! And even then, it's getting too expensive. Fortunately, I don't drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Yes, for example you've totally exploited Latin America and supported entire chain of incredibly bloody dictatorships there, for last 200 years (you even helped train their torture specialists). That's some relief <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just like how we built the Panama canal, created jobs down there, built factories and then turned everything over. We just gave it to the people and left. Every place where we have closed a military base has begged Americans and their money to come back. I have a friend from Bolivia. He talks about how people hate the US, and see us as arrogant, rich bastards. But at the same time he said everyone in Bolivia would come live here in they could in a heart beat. Dare I say some of the hatred the US receives is actually envy clothed in disdain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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