Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[metadigital]

Ah, okay, then yes, I think that is a sound narrative mechanic!

[Calax]

horray people agree on somthing.... I certainly hope they use a new engine this one's getting old and delapidated.... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm we should be able to throw our vibros.

[ncr]

I'd like to see more PC actions like swimming, climbing, ect. Also, like the previous poster mentioned, more acrobatic moves would be cool. Yes... I've been watching Ep. III again.

[KurtDunniehue]

I really think that people have the right idea in swapping the sides of this thing. i wonder what it looks like from a sith perspective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For a little peek, you can play through the first 30 minutes of 'Jade Empire.'

 

Another Bioware Title, this one also has a morality system. It's not based on 'Good/Evil' though, it's based on two 'Martial Arts Ideals.' Open Palm and Closed Fist.

 

Open Palm is to use cohersion, nonviolence, ect whenever possible to subdue your enemies and trials. Closed fist isto use strength, confrontations, ect.

 

Another point they divide on is how to treat others. Open Palm thinks that you should be kind to your nieghbor, help everyone out that's in need, ect. LightSide all the way.

 

Closed fist believes that people should fend for themselves. If you help someone out with a problem, you weaken that person. That suffering is good for the Soul (as long as you can recover), and Trial by Fire purfies the Warrior. So a disciple of the Closed Fist would offer a weapon to a person who is being mugged, rather than help him outright, or otherwise even the odds for that person.

 

Of course that isn't how Sith really are, but that's how they might see themselves.

 

BTW, the morality system of Jade Empire really is just Good/Evil, after the first 30 mins. You're given an good answer (Help the Burning Orphanage!), the Neutral Answer (Eh, where's a brewski?), and the Outright Evil Answer (Bar the Windows and Doors from the Outside, and enjoy the smell of burnt Kiddie. Mmmmm, Bastard Child!), every time. I really wish I could have made a Closed Fist guy who wasn't an evil ****head.

[Calax]

I don't have an Xbox :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Echo_Drive]

I agree with who ever stated that there should be two different beginnings. That would be cool and also adds slightly to replay value.

 

Lightside beginning --- Lightside ending

Lightside beginning --- Darkside ending

Darkside beginning --- Darkside ending

Darkside beginning --- Lightside ending

[XboxSithLord]

I don't have an Xbox  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

hey, not everyone is perfect. :D

[XboxSithLord]

I'd like to see more PC actions like swimming, climbing, ect.  Also, like the previous poster mentioned, more acrobatic moves would be cool.  Yes... I've been watching Ep. III again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

its only the best movie in the world

 

 

o and agree

[Darth Sprawl]

I would just rather have the jedi academy on Coruscant be the training grounds for a new pc at the start of kotor3. I like the idea of having the choice of starting out at a sith academy, but that really needed to been done in kotor2 (SL). kotor3 should include the rebuilding of a new jedi council, AND we should get to choose from 2 games worth of characters who would be seated on that council at the start of the game (at least 50%). Remember, fallen jedi make the best sith.

 

In fact, sith training should be more secret and intimate this time (take a page from the one-master/one-apprentice format (Bane looks back on sith history and says, "that was a great idea, I wanna do that too"). Master Shaun's past history w/Revan would make her the perfect npc for masking true motives while being on the council. She takes the very promising pc padawan as an apprentice. From there you get to constantly choose whether or not the pc can continually resist the temptations of the darkside. Do you secretly train to be a sith and embrace the darkside as the storyline unfolds or follow the the path of a jedi? After all, the sith as we know it are suppose to take a backseat to the "true sith" for the next installment.

 

The combinations that can be done just from those ideas give multitudes of replay value, and that is not including whether or not they finally assign gender and light/darkside paths for Revan and Exile.

[Weiser_Cain]

That's a good thing.

[Jediphile]

2. You are guilty of judging a film by its special effects, then. The plot of the sequel was far inferior to the original film; there were numerous concepts that were alluded to in the original that were not even addressed in the sequel; the sequels were more Kung-Fu than philosophy -- the opposite of the original, which revealed a compelling dystopian future vision and a library of different technological fictions to flesh out the narrative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Now you're trolling again. You don't like the movie, so I cannot be allowed to unless I value things that are inferior. You're also misrepresenting me by assuming motives not in evidence, since you completely refuse to acknowledge the reasons I gave for like Reloaded, and it speaks volumes that you conveniently "forgot" to include that in what you decided to quote.

 

What I said was (snipped a bit):

 

This is another example of how beauty is in the eye of the beholder, since I quite honestly thought that Matrix Reloaded was by far the best movie in the trilogy. Yes, Revolutions failed to finish the story properly, and since Reloaded builded toward it, that hurt it as well, but on its own Reloaded is brilliant IMO - I like it far better than the original movie, which was fairly simple in its setup, whereas by the end of Reloaded, you really were wondering what was going on. Damn shame about Revolutions, which really just spend most of its time trying to explain away the clues given to us in Reloaded. But I digress...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is noteworthy here is comment of "you really were wondering what was going on". Reloaded was filled to the edge with strange clues pointing in all different directions, and when Neo disabled the sentinels, it really sparked question of what was going on - how the heck was he able to do that? It suggested that something else was going on a completely new level that we hadn't seen before. Sadly, however, Revolutions decided to ignore most of those implications - note how Neo never explains why he could that, how he got to the train station, or how he got back into the matrix after that. But the clues were all there in Reloaded, suggesting that Zion was just another matrix to entrap the human mind, if you bother to look for it. You may not have noted it, but that's not my fault, and I'm not about to let you flame me just because I did and liked that. Sure the special effects are nice and impressive, but in the end they will always just be icing on the cake, and if you take away the cake itself, what remains will make you ill...

 

3. That's very patronising: people don't understand that good writing makes for compelling games, they just want to mast ur bate with their gamepad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My, how you contradict yourself - first you decry all the little fanboys with me for supporting crappy games, and now you moralize against me for being patronizing for saying it. I guess if having a standard is good, then a double standard is twice as good... "

 

4. Yep, there is definitely a market segment being served by such games. So what? The cRPG genre might be a (smaller) market niche, but that doesn't mean it doesn't bear servicing. There is a market for yatchs that cost over

[KurtDunniehue]

God damn you two. Get a room.

[Darth Flatus]

How frustating is it when you've made a long rebuttal post only to find the quotes have messed up?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Then no one bothers to read it.

[jodo kast 5]

I think they should have it continue through that way if you rule the galaxy you can scare people beecause you're the Dark Lord of the Sith and ruler of the galaxy.

[Jediphile]

The last post was dealing with a protracted argument based on the infraction caused by Jediphile suggesting that quality writing was not as important as graphical innovation.

 

LIAR!!!

 

I challenge you to quote me for *EVER* saying that!

 

The fact that you infer it does not make it so, and you are a liar and a troll for stating it as a fact!

 

I was writing a lengthy response, but I see no point in arguing with LIARS!!!!!!

 

Please step in, moderator, or else you'll be letting Metadigital getting away with claiming that I said things I never did. I flatly deny that I ever said that graphics were more important than innovation. I simply said that that's what most people look at.

 

There are only two possibitilies: Either metadigital cannot see that or he will not that see that.

 

But either way his claims make him a liar, and he is not just misrepresenting me or infering things, he is saying I said things that are simply untrue. He didn't even disagree with me when I said that most players look at graphics first. In my book that makes Metadigital both a hypocrit as well as a liar and a troll!

 

Step in, moderator, or the flamefest is certain!!!

[Nartwak]

LIAR!!11

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If it bothers you that much, thats why there is a report button on the left hand side of the post.

 

Looks like this thread is ready for part 8 anyway.

[metadigital]

The last post was dealing with a protracted argument based on the infraction caused by Jediphile suggesting that quality writing was not as important as graphical innovation.

LIAR!!!

 

I challenge you to quote me for *EVER* saying that!

 

The fact that you infer it does not make it so, and you are a liar and a troll for stating it as a fact!

 

I was writing a lengthy response, but I see no point in arguing with LIARS!!!!!!

 

Please step in, moderator, or else you'll be letting Metadigital getting away with claiming that I said things I never did. I flatly deny that I ever said that graphics were more important than innovation. I simply said that that's what most people look at.

 

There are only two possibitilies: Either metadigital cannot see that or he will not that see that.

 

But either way his claims make him a liar, and he is not just misrepresenting me or infering things, he is saying I said things that are simply untrue. He didn't even disagree with me when I said that most players look at graphics first. In my book that makes Metadigital both a hypocrit as well as a liar and a troll!

 

Step in, moderator, or the flamefest is certain!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I shall ignore your childish histrionics (for the moment) and draw the argument back to its inception.

 

In actuality, you picked up a point I made, which leads to the reasonable conclusion that you are opposing my original statement.

 

Viz:

This sort of detail is sdly lacking in seemingly all modern games. In the rush to launch yet another shallow saccharine-rush rip-off, real gaming is being left behind. seemingly there is no HBO game producer, the David Attenboroughs of the games industry are dinosaurs marked for termination ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you mean, but don't forget a couple of things:

[1]- Consumers (that's you and me) expect much more from games now, and we've usually seen it all before - the days when we see something truly original in games are over because it's all been done.

[2]- All narrative is also spoken narrative - whatever is written must also be spoken, which requires every single word to be done by voice actors, and that's not exactly cheap.

[3]- Computer games are an industry. Gone are the golden age of gaming, when each and every game was the love child of a specific programmer - now there are definite demands on what graphics, sounds, etc. that a game MUST have to be accepted. A game MAY NOT sell badly these days, since they demand too much attention - companies go backrupt, people lose their jobs and mouths aren't being fed when games don't sell now. Games really are that expensive to make now - what one man could do in the the gold age of the 80s now requires a team of 25+ people working full time for a year or more. That's a huge investment!

[4]- This also means that the story must fit with the work schedule. I'd like to see a KotOR3 with diverse light and dark side paths throughout, but it's not going to happen - it would be far to costly to produce, since it would mean that the company has to basically write two games and have most people play only one. Therefore it will be "one size fits all". Not because the company doesn't want to do it, but because it is only thing that is possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The points I have highlighted above speak for themselves, nevertheless, here is a brief synopsis:

1. Irrelevant comment on the rising standard expected in games: irrelevant because it could easily be applied to graphics or writing. I would tend to believe, simply by your post being a response to mine and not being prefaced with some sort of term of agreement, that it is meant to counter my point, thus leading to the implication supporting your next paragraphs, and countering mine, especially when combined with a later post:

We expect more, yes, but we get less. "... It's all been done."? Garbage! We are getting slop that has been done so much that it is chich

[Nartwak]

From what I've read I wouldn't say DX:IW was spoiled by the graphics.

[metadigital]

From what I've read I wouldn't say DX:IW was spoiled by the graphics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I would argue that it wasn't spoiled by the writing, per se. The only criticism I would level at it would be sequel-syndrome and too short.

 

The graphics were okay. The big hype before release centred aound the environment being very responsive: you could hide behind a wall whilst the alarm goes off in another room and the sound would be dampened by the wall. Likewise there was a real effort made to make the shadows more realistic.

 

The interface was gimped because it was a dual release on the consoles, so it couldn't provide the high resolution menus (the devs have to work with a largest screen resolution of the tv), HUD readout font resolutions and 110-key keyboard and three-plus button mouse interaction.

 

I am playing through the sequel again now, and what is limiting my enjoyment is not the writing, to be sure. (Although I thought the game was a little short on my first playthrough: certainly one of the most appealing aspects of the first game was that every time it appeared to be ending, there would be a whole new section to play, again and again!)

 

 

Even if you think the writing wasn't the strongest, and the graphics were a strong point, then you still have proof that better graphics and weaker writing make for a poorer result.

 

[Jediphile]

I shall ignore your childish histrionics (for the moment) and draw the argument back to its inception.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can tell already that you possess neither the ability nor the intent to do so. Calling me childish and then making a claim of being diplomatic is, yet again, contradictory to the extreme and can only serve to flame further. How you can even state both in the same sentence and expect to not look like a complete idiot is beyond me, and it certainly speaks volumes about your "intent".

 

In actuality, you picked up a point I made, which leads to the reasonable conclusion that you are opposing my original statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, commenting on something does not mean opposing. In this case you embrace that logic only because that is the only way you can defend your flawed arguments and behaviour. But the fact that I chose to respond can in no way be inferred to mean the exact opposite of your position. Basically you're saying that if I'm not with you, then I'm your enemy, but remember... "only a Sith deals in absolutes"! I hope that brings it down to a level you can comprehend.

 

The points I have highlighted above speak for themselves,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They do indeed. It's just a shame you didn't bother to read them before you decided to attack me for whatever you wanted. I have snipped them for the same reason - you don't read them anyway, so why bother.

 

nevertheless, here is a brief synopsis:

1. Irrelevant comment on the rising standard expected in games: irrelevant because it could easily be applied to graphics or writing. I would tend to believe, simply by your post being a response to mine and not being prefaced with some sort of term of agreement, that it is meant to counter my point, thus leading to the implication supporting your next paragraphs, and countering mine, especially when combined with a later post:

(snip)

2. Completely specious comment about the costs of dialogue.

(snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Basically you're saying that all my comments are meaningless, but since I arguing, you can just assume that I oppose whatever you happen to be thinking. Need I truly explain how idiotic that position is? Well, I'm not going to bother, since I have little faith it will make a difference...

 

3. Duplicitous comment suggesting that only graphics improvements will sell a new game. I draw the jury attention to such examples for the defence:

(snip list of games)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have never once mentioned any of the games that you list here, and all I said was that the industry now has firm standards on the quality of graphics and sounds. That cannot be inferred to suggest that I place the importance of graphics above plot. I might as well argue that you support abortion or software piracy on the basis that you have never said otherwise.

 

4. Finally, this comment helps to cement the implication generated by the post that graphics are more important than writing, because "the story must fit with the work schedule", rather than the subscribing to the attitude that writing is the primary step to creating any game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nonsense. Once again you're taking my comment and assuming whatever you like. What I said is that writing games is costly and takes time today. I don't hear anyone arguing against that. I also said that this put limits on how complex games can be. No one has argued against that. Reason? Because those are facts - you cannot argue against that. That doesn't give you the right to just jump to whatever assumptions you like and then attack me with it.

 

So who is the troll? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Clearly you are - you assume facts not in evidence and then infer whatever you like and then attack me with it.

 

EDIT: Oh, and you began arguing about me personally instead of arguing the topic - that's the definition of trolling.

 

PS I shall read through the diatribe that you have posted above when I get the chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yet more evidence of trolling - you admit not having read it and yet you immediately call it a diatribe. Yes, I can see how enlightened and unbiased you truly are... A genuine inspiration to us all

[jodo kast 5]

Excuse me, timeout, lets get back on topic before the Green Dragon decides to shut the thread down and you 3 can continue your little "argument" somewhere else.

 

Thank You.

[Calax]

they have to implement the story well. if the story is a simple cookie cutter as it has been accused of then you could still pull it off but you have to find a new way to make it work. find a facet that has yet to be explored and grab it.

[KurtDunniehue]

Are you sure you two can't do this in a Chatroom or something?

 

I don't think your posts even suggest anything for K3 anymore.