KoToR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Jediphile]

Now for something completely different. The new villains (Sith) of KOTOR III should be very different from those of the previous games. Revan, Malak,

Traya

, Nihilus and Sion were not taught by Sith, they simply uncovered their artifacts and remnants of their power, which corrupted them.

I'd hate to see another character like Darth Nihilus. Reason: He was a product of the events that occurred on Malachor V, his ability to consume life and midichlorians came from that. He was unique, a creature created from the massive wound in the force.

I say bring back the true half-breed Sith (with their red skin and tentacle beards), the lightsaber masters, the true "priests" of the Dark side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. KotOR2 was a conflict among the "pretender" Sith (falled Jedi). To some extent you could say that KotOR3 will be a war between the survivors of these these "pretender" Sith and the true Sith over who gets to claim the failing Republic as a prize. Hence my plot about DS Revan and DS Exile described above.

[Imperialist]

Exactly.

1 more thing about your plot. It involves the Jedi Order,

which does not exist at that time.

Other than that, and adding a dark side option to the whole 'redeem the Exile and Revan' plot, it's a good story.

[Jediphile]

Exactly.

1 more thing about your plot. It involves the Jedi Order,

which does not exist at that time.

Other than that, and adding a dark side option to the whole 'redeem the Exile and Revan' plot, it's a good story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

About the order, yes and no. The way I see it, there were two aspects that needed to be addressed concerning the jedi.

 

One was that while most of the remaining jedi knights and masters died on Katarr, that still doesn't tell us us what happened to all the jedi children, who certainly wouldn't have been taken to a secret meeting about how to fight the Sith (Nihilus and Sion).

 

The second was that the Exile's companions-turned-jedi needed to have a place in the story, particularly after Kreia's predictions about them being the "lost jedi" (at least in the light side ending of the story).

 

So I thought it would make sense to put those two together. The LS Exile left his companions behind, but many of them (potentially, I know, but we need to give that potentiality some consequence) are jedi now and cannot just go back to their old lives. Meeting (and training under) the Exile has changed them, and when he leaves, they must find a new place for themselves as jedi. So I thought I'd have them go to Coruscant and begin to rebuild the order in positions as teachers and one day perhaps masters.

 

So what may have sounded like a jedi order and a council is really nothing more than a sizable group of jedi children being trained by about a dozen or so would-be teachers who serve as "masters" though they would not even be considered jedi knights by the usual standards.

 

In fact, that could be a plot for a KotOR 4 or 5 or whatever, when the younger jedi grow up and begin rejecting the "masters" because they never learned the "real" skills from the "real" masters and just assumed the positions when they were vacant and now won't give them up when "proper" and "truly dedicated" jedi have grown from the younger generation. After all, the Exile's companions have pretty troubling pasts (Disciple left the order, Visas betrayed her people to turn dark side and serve Nihilus, Atton tortured and killed jedi, Bao-Dur was vengeful and created weapons of mass destruction during the Mandalorian Wars, Handmaiden betrayed her vows to Atris, etc.), so they might be considered impure and unworthy by the next generation of jedi.

[Oerwinde]

Exactly.

1 more thing about your plot. It involves the Jedi Order,

which does not exist at that time.

Other than that, and adding a dark side option to the whole 'redeem the Exile and Revan' plot, it's a good story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

About the order, yes and no. The way I see it, there were two aspects that needed to be addressed concerning the jedi.

 

One was that while most of the remaining jedi knights and masters died on Katarr, that still doesn't tell us us what happened to all the jedi children, who certainly wouldn't have been taken to a secret meeting about how to fight the Sith (Nihilus and Sion).

 

The second was that the Exile's companions-turned-jedi needed to have a place in the story, particularly after Kreia's predictions about them being the "lost jedi" (at least in the light side ending of the story).

 

So I thought it would make sense to put those two together. The LS Exile left his companions behind, but many of them (potentially, I know, but we need to give that potentiality some consequence) are jedi now and cannot just go back to their old lives. Meeting (and training under) the Exile has changed them, and when he leaves, they must find a new place for themselves as jedi. So I thought I'd have them go to Coruscant and begin to rebuild the order in positions as teachers and one day perhaps masters.

 

So what may have sounded like a jedi order and a council is really nothing more than a sizable group of jedi children being trained by about a dozen or so would-be teachers who serve as "masters" though they would not even be considered jedi knights by the usual standards.

 

In fact, that could be a plot for a KotOR 4 or 5 or whatever, when the younger jedi grow up and begin rejecting the "masters" because they never learned the "real" skills from the "real" masters and just assumed the positions when they were vacant and now won't give them up when "proper" and "truly dedicated" jedi have grown from the younger generation. After all, the Exile's companions have pretty troubling pasts (Disciple left the order, Visas betrayed her people to turn dark side and serve Nihilus, Atton tortured and killed jedi, Bao-Dur was vengeful and created weapons of mass destruction during the Mandalorian Wars, Handmaiden betrayed her vows to Atris, etc.), so they might be considered impure and unworthy by the next generation of jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure they may be impure, but they still would have taught the new generation of Jedi everything they know. If all you know had been taught by these "impure" Jedi, wouldn't you also be impure by that logic? Also, if it was lightside, chances are you

redeemed Atris

, and she could help hold the new order together.

[Imperialist]

Edit: This is written in response to Jediphile's last post.

 

Ah, yes, but the Jedi order did not train children at that time. That practice wasn't introduced till after the Ruusan Reformation, designed to mold children from the beginning of their lives to prevent anyone falling to the Dark side. This happened about 3000 years after the KOTOR series. It seems that before the Ruusan Reformation only young adults were taken into training. Now, Padawans on the other hand, could possibly still exist, as they would clearly not be taken to a Jedi conclave on the Sith threat.

 

As for the Jedi party members forming rebuilding the Order, they would not have enough time to:

 

a) Become strong enough in the Force to actually teach anything.

b) Track down force-sensitive people and former Padawans all over the galaxy.

 

This is, of course, presuming the events of KotOR III take place shortly after KotOR II. A year or so. That would make sense, as in order to track down Revan to help/destroy him (all depending on the alignment of the PC), one would have to arrive rather early in the conflict between Revan,

the Exile

and the Sith. If it takes place after 5 years or so, that would make Revan about 4 years old (presuming he was in his early thirties when the Mandalorian Wars began, which makes sense since the rank of Jedi Master would take some time to obtain. I also presumed the Mandalorian Wars to last about 5 years. 1 year after the end of that war Revan and Malak started the Jedi civil war, which probably had lasted a year or two at the beginning of KotOR I, and KotOR II takes place 5 years after that. Revan is turning old). The exile would be in his mid-thirties seeing as he

was only a Padawan at the beginning of the Mandalorian Wars

.

 

On another note, wouldn't Revan have to train a Padawan in order to achieve the rank of Master? A good idea for KotOR III (in my humble opinion) would be playing as this Padawan. Perhaps the training stopped when Revan went to the Mandalorian Wars, and the Padawan simply returned to his/her normal life. Perhaps Revan and this apprentice share a Master-Padawan force bond (...yes, I know ), thus giving this Padawan a reason for tracking down Revan.

[Oerwinde]

I think it would be a better idea to set this several years after KotOR2 rather than right after. I always assumed that Revan was mid twenties in the Mandalorian Wars, since Malak and him were friends and Malak looked so young. (pre-cybermouth). And I don't think you necessarily need to train a Padawan to have the rank of Master. Atris was on the council, and to sit on the council you need the rank of Master, and it was stated that she never had a Padawan. In Episode 3 I believe that Anakin is a special case in that they allow him a spot on the council without granting the rank of master.

[Imperialist]

Well, the rank of master can only be gained in three ways: successfully training a Padawan to a Jedi Knight, through the performance of extraordinary deeds (Atris may have done this, Revan most certainly didn't), or through self-proclamation (which is extremely rare and even then only supported by the Jedi Council in extremely few cases). I believe this was the practice in the post-Ruusan Jedi Order as well, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The rank of master could possibly have been appointed to true masters of the Force such as Revan and Malak, perhaps even at a young age. In any case, Revan is at least in his mid-thirties by now.

[Jediphile]

Edit: This is written in response to Jediphile's last post.

 

Ah, yes, but the Jedi order did not train children at that time. That practice wasn't introduced till after the Ruusan Reformation, designed to mold children from the beginning of their lives to prevent anyone falling to the Dark side. This happened about 3000 years after the KOTOR series. It seems that before the Ruusan Reformation only young adults were taken into training. Now, Padawans on the other hand, could possibly still exist, as they would clearly not be taken to a Jedi conclave on the Sith threat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Odd, then, that Bastila goes into lengthy descriptions on how she joined the order to be trained when very young and explains how jedi are separated from their parents at the earliest age to avoid the close attachments between relatives, since those are powerful and can lead to the dark side... Indeed, this whole point comes across from her descriptions much, much better in KotOR1 than in any of the movies...

 

As for the Jedi party members forming rebuilding the Order, they would not have enough time to:

 

a) Become strong enough in the Force to actually teach anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, they went from totally inexperienced to jedis of level 20+ for me during the course of a game that spanned only, what, a couple of months or so at most? Besides, they learned themselves, so surely they can teach what they've learned themselves. Also, Visas is a true jedi trained by the original masters, Atton has studied jedi techniques and weaknesses for a long time, Bao-Dur has fought next to jedi for years (heck, he knows lightsaber-construction better than the Exile did...), the Disciple was padawan until he the order. Only Handmaiden and Mira can be said to be true apprentices.

 

b) Track down force-sensitive people and former Padawans all over the galaxy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, but it doesn't matter since they wouldn't have the resources or expertice to train new jedi for a long time - just teaching the students they already have will be more than a challenge.

 

This is, of course, presuming the events of KotOR III take place shortly after KotOR II. A year or so. That would make sense, as in order to track down Revan to help/destroy him (all depending on the alignment of the PC), one would have to arrive rather early in the conflict between Revan,

the Exile

and the Sith. If it takes place after 5 years or so, that would make Revan about 4 years old (presuming he was in his early thirties when the Mandalorian Wars began, which makes sense since the rank of Jedi Master would take some time to obtain. I also presumed the Mandalorian Wars to last about 5 years. 1 year after the end of that war Revan and Malak started the Jedi civil war, which probably had lasted a year or two at the beginning of KotOR I, and KotOR II takes place 5 years after that. Revan is turning old). The exile would be in his mid-thirties seeing as he

was only a Padawan at the beginning of the Mandalorian Wars

.

 

On another note, wouldn't Revan have to train a Padawan in order to achieve the rank of Master? A good idea for KotOR III (in my humble opinion) would be playing as this Padawan. Perhaps the training stopped when Revan went to the Mandalorian Wars, and the Padawan simply returned to his/her normal life. Perhaps Revan and this apprentice share a Master-Padawan force bond (...yes, I know ), thus giving this Padawan a reason for tracking down Revan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think a year between KotOR2 and 3 is too short, though I'd agree that five years (like between 1 and 2) is too much. I'd say two or three years. And a lot can happen in just one year...

 

Not sure about the Revan's padawan idea, because I'm not sure he had the experience to be a master by the time he left for the Mandalorian Wars. Remember that Revan was a relatively young jedi leading other young jedi into that war. Even if he had had a padawan at the time, sure that padawan would have gone with and then been turned to the dark side eventually (the Exile was the only one to resist and go back, if you'll remember). Besides, if Revan had any padawan, I think it should be Malak.

[Imperialist]

Hmm, it seems KotOR contradicts the information on the Ruusan Reform then. Since both are EU, both could be canon. Perhaps the Reform made such moulding training the only acceptable form of Jedi training. Yes, that sounds about right. In that case, there could be a large group of children. Though I'd hate a lot of children running around killing Sith - that's just too lame.

 

And wouldn't these children (at least the older ones) be on par with the teachers in form of knowledge?

 

As for Revan's padawan, it was clearly stated that he was a Jedi Master prior to the Mandalorian Wars. He could very well have achieved this rank because of his extreme Force mastery - as could Malak, who was also a Master.

Malak was never Revan's apprentice before they became Sith. They grew up together, they were probably the same age, and were best friends. Appointing one friend to be another's Master would seem a poor decision by the Jedi Council.

[dewaybe2678]

i don't gety it. if obsidiant isn't doing kotor 3 why are they interested in keeping the idea for 3 in one place. side the obivious

[ncr]

KOTOR III should be a true Star Wars game like the first one. No

[Jediphile]

i don't gety it. if obsidiant isn't doing kotor 3 why are they interested in keeping the idea for 3 in one place. side the obivious

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's probably because while the fate of KotOR3 is still uncertain, Obsidian was behind KotOR2 and is therefore considered the "active" developer of the KotOR-series for now.

 

After all, since KotOR3 hasn't even been announced yet, that means all speculation about it and the current standing of KotOR would come from KotOR2 and so might be seen as feedback on that game, and that is something Obsidian wants to read. We're playing KotOR2 now, so we're still Obsidian's customers and will continue to be until/unless another developer is announced for KotOR3.

[Jediphile]

Hmm, it seems KotOR contradicts the information on the Ruusan Reform then. Since both are EU, both could be canon. Perhaps the Reform made such moulding training the only acceptable form of Jedi training. Yes, that sounds about right. In that case, there could be a large group of children. Though I'd hate a lot of children running around killing Sith - that's just too lame.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It would, but I don't consider those children suitable for combat - that's why the masters left them behind on Coruscant when the went to Katarr in the first place. Still since years have passed since then, some of those children might be reaching an age, where they might be ready for becoming padawan learners.

 

And wouldn't these children (at least the older ones) be on par with the teachers in form of knowledge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some of them might be, yes. I see that as a bit similar to how children sometimes know more about computer and so than the teachers trying to tell them about it. It is a bit different for jedi, though, since it's all about controlling your emotions and instincts, and adults are (we hope...) always better at that having more experience with it. I'd say adolescence is about the most dangerous time of life for a jedi.

 

Not sure about Revan's padawan... I don't recall him ever being a master before the Mandalorian Wars, so I'll shut up about it.

[Jediphile]

KOTOR III should be a true Star Wars game like the first one.  No

[Mc Bane]

Just a thought, Obsidian did a very good job on the story and plot of KOTOR2. I think that, as good as some of these plots are, we should leave the story tellin to the professionals. We could try to focus on the more practical, gameplay points.

 

Of course something like training a padawan comes in to this, as does an alien PC.

 

And I'm happy with "True Sith" as long as once it has bee made clear that they arfe just refered to as Sith.

[Killuminati]

I'm kinda tired of the battle between good & evil...

[Sion67]

I personally would like them to part ways with the whole Revan Exile bit and explore more places such as possibly 2000 years before Episode 1. I mean we only know what, post episode 1 and some pieces of history over 4000 years old, this means time to explore what the heck happened in between 4000 years and episode 1 (minus the jedi apprentice books) we need to make some kind of hisory that would make complete sense like why all those star systems would want to join hands and think about whats best for the galaxy as a whole. somebody give Ideas other than the dang revan story

[Sion67]

and another thing the tru sith are a race who lived long ago I don't know if anyone actually got that they were not really human they were different. look up a picture of Naga sadow does he look very human with his Red face or maybe even Ludo Kresh you really need to read more rather than watch movies and play games it help to read the history book before you see hollywoods perspective.

[mikazuki]

I haven't read all of the posts but here are my opinions and thoughts on the third game.

 

While Obsidian has made both Revan and the Exile male in their official versions, I played both games as females (and played both games as Sith/Jedi). StarWars.com does make mention of Revan (but not Exile) on their website but does not make mention if the character is male/female.

 

Some where along the game line, one can pick whether Exile/Reven are male or female just as you could pick whether Revan was male/female again.

 

I would like to see both characters meet up with each other in the third game as both most likely knew each other BEFORE either game. Wasn't it mentioned in the second game that Exile KNEW Revan and not only served under him/her?

 

The main characters should not be characters from either previous games but at some point in the game we should be give a quest with Revan and with Exile - each a seperate mini-game where it picks up after each game. The mini-game character's sex would be determined at the beginning of the game, either by picking the character's sex and features OR in the main game itself where the characters discuss Revan and the Exile OR by picking a Holocron of the characters. Maybe the main character(s) could go to Dantooine or find Jedi holocrons and we players can then pick what Revan and Exile looked like.

 

At any rate... the mini-games....

 

At some point in the main game, once we've established what Revan/Exile looks like, we pick up each mini game at the conclusion of their respective games. For Revan's mini-game it picks up after the first game but before the second. We find out that Revan's memory comes back and s/he is haunted by the memories of her Dark self. She also remembers that the Builders not only created the Star Forge but also another meancing and more terrible creation which does not lie within our galaxy but rather outside of the galaxy in a part of dark space that lies between galaxies. We can also discover that the Builders were the true Sith (it was hinted that the true Sith and the Builders were one and the same in the first game but I don't recall it ever being said outright that they were). Revan leaves some clues behind for those who know her and who are Force sensitive could follow in case something goes wrong in her/his mission (such as not returning within a certain amount of time and because s/he hasn't the trail opens up for Exile to follow and find out what happened to Revan).

 

In the Exile mini-game, the clues left behind by Revan activate because Revan failed to return within ten or so years of her/him leaving. I say have Revan's mission begin a few months after the end of the first game. This would mean that around another five years have passed since the second game. In Exile's mini-game we have to travel to his/her homeworld and discover who the Exile really is. We were never told who Exile really is in the second game nor do we learn Disciple's real name. Maybe in the Exile mini-game we discover both as Exile searches for the clues Revan leaves behind.

 

The mini-games each shouldn't be longer then two hours each (it seems as if each "act" in both previous games were around that long).

 

The main game should focus on finding out what happened to both Revan and Exile - both who have left the galaxy for parts unknown in search of the true Sith/Builders. Now depending on our previous action early on in the game, our main characters will either find Revan and Exile either as Jedi or Sith and that of course determines the remaining part of the game.

 

If Revan and/or Exile were Sith - we discover they took over the Builder's empire and are trying to rebuild the Sith to once again wage war on the Republic and Jedi Order. If Revan and/or Exile were Jedi - we discover that they had been captured and are the verge of death (or are dead) and we have to battle at least two Sith Lords who may be clones of Revan & Exile.

 

Along the game, the main characters have to fight remnants of the Sith left behind from Malak and the other Sith Lords from the second game. We can also fight Darth Traya, the former Atris, because we were left with the option of killing her or sparing her in the second game. After all Kreyia said there would always be a Darth Traya and so maybe, just maybe Atris is back in this game. Maybe she gives our main characters the clues as to where to look for Revan and Exile. After all know the Sith Holocrons on Telos were left behind.

 

I would love to see things that were left unresolved in both previous games to be resolved in this game. We need to know what happened to these things:

 

1) What did Revan remember after the first game that made her/him leave and was mentioned in the second game?

 

2) What is Exile's real name? Where is she/he from? What happened to her/him after the second game? She/he did follow Revan (since the official character was left on the light side) but what happened?

 

3) We know Revan and Exile knew each other in the Mandalorian Wars. So did they meet up after the second game to fight the true Sith that Kerya mentions in the second game?

 

4) Are the Builders indeed the true Sith? The true Sith were said to be long dead but what if they aren't and are outside of the galaxy and are being battled by Revan and Exile?

 

As much as I love many of the previous main characters from both one and two, I don't think they should be part of the third game with the exception of the T3 unit and maybe Bastila and Anton. There should be no less then nine characters - three previous characters from previous games. Maybe, even pick which of the three previous characters gets to go look for Revan and Exile.

 

But regardless of what Obsidian does for the third game, I can hardly wait. I just hope it wraps up the previous two games.

[Oerwinde]

2) What is Exile's real name? Where is she/he from? What happened to her/him after the second game? She/he did follow Revan (since the official character was left on the light side) but what happened?

 

His/her real name is whatever you chose in the game. And where is everyone getting this "official" story stuff from?

 

4) Are the Builders indeed the true Sith? The true Sith were said to be long dead but what if they aren't and are outside of the galaxy and are being battled by Revan and Exile?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Builders are the Rakata from K1, not the true sith.

[Darth Sirius]

Now feel free to flame me to death if this sounds stupid (As I am quick to do )

I just wanted to run it past you all.

 

How about in KotOR 3 a force power that allows you to hide your true intentions, or maybe even at its simplest an extremely increased use of the [lie] function, that was apparent in the last two games, for example:

 

(In the most basic of terms)

 

Jedi Master: "You must defeat the sith lord!"

 

<Players Choices>

1) I will defeat the sith lord and won't take his place.

2) [lie] [force <whatever>] I will defeat the sith lord and won't take his place.

3) I am also a sith and I will defeat you instead.

 

And so on and so forth, understand the above is in its most basic terms, but you get the idea.

 

It may also add that manipulative touch the series has been lacking IMO, (ala-palpy)

 

And also be an in between to the: LS = Goodie 2 shoes, DS = Bully, and add a little bit of subtlety.

 

You could also do the LS side of things and still get DS points, and only reveal your plan, when it is too late

 

Thoughts anyone?

[Mucka_Heartagram]

k3 first star wars game on xbox 360?? hmmm who knows?

[Oerwinde]

Now feel free to flame me to death if this sounds stupid (As I am quick to do  )

I just wanted to run it past you all.

 

How about in KotOR 3 a force power that allows you to hide your true intentions, or maybe even at its simplest an extremely increased use of the [lie] function, that was apparent in the last two games, for example:

 

(In the most basic of terms)

 

Jedi Master: "You must defeat the sith lord!"

 

<Players Choices>

1) I will defeat the sith lord and won't take his place.

2) [lie] [force <whatever>] I will defeat the sith lord and won't take his place.

3) I am also a sith and I will defeat you instead.

 

And so on and so forth, understand the above is in its most basic terms, but you get the idea.

 

It may also add that manipulative touch the series has been lacking IMO, (ala-palpy)

 

And also be an in between to the: LS = Goodie 2 shoes, DS = Bully, and add a little bit of subtlety.

 

You could also do the LS side of things and still get DS points, and only reveal your plan, when it is too late 

 

Thoughts anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree. More lying. Thuggish responses are all well and good if you're playing a Darth Maul type character, but if you want to play a manipulative character you're not going to go around announcing your intentions for the world to see.

[Plano Skywalker]

I'm sure this has been covered in other threads but I think it very appropriate to cover it here.

 

If you want to see a KOTOR III and see it done the way you want it, please

FILL OUT THE OFFICIAL SURVEY:

 

http://home.reelresearch.com/NRG/newtest.a...10L&id=32700547

[Eddo36]

I think that it would be neat if say we can see what Revan did when he was a Sith Lord. Say the Jedi kept his memory in a box or something when they wiped him. Then you as the main character (Revan, Exile, somebody new, etc) gotta find the box and access Revan's memory to find out some plot-related thing, and you see what he did as Darth Revan. And it better be good.

 

K2 was good IMO (could be great if there were less missing scripts) but it kinda strayed from K1's story a little. I want to see with the outcome of K1 and K2 very heavily mixed into K3, with all the alive characters, choices, and plots. Just try to make some things less mysterious and more explained.