Where the Endgame REALLY went wrong

[AlanC9]

We can dispose of Kreia, then have to go and "mop up" Nihilus, who may not be the sharpest tool in the chest, but just the giant that wants to eat you for lunch. If you made the battle without force powers (or that any use would make Nihilus stronger), then you would have a very interesting denouement.

 

Yep. Especially interesting for Consulars. Might be an opportunity for HK-47 to save life, the universe, and everything, though.

[AlanC9]

thats not a bug,its just he has very little dialogue,but everybody is really easy to make a jedi,as male I managed to get everybody(excluding Bao-Dur and mira since I didn't have her)into a jedi before I met my first jedi master,I met disciple,went to the office of khoonda,than made him a jedi,and I had already gotten atton and Bao-Dur,but I gotta say,Using Visas and Handmaiden as jedi...it certainly is classy having an all-girl cabiret(sp?) of jedi.   <_<    (w00t)  :D

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A bit OT, but how did you get Atton as a Jedi before doing Nar Shaddaa? I didn't think you could LS Jedify him without taking him to the refugee sector.

[bcarlock]

No, it is more fitting to finish on Malachor V.  That is where it started after all, where the Exile was "wounded."

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How about putting Nihilis back on Malachor then, and have just the finest battles of all time raging all over the system? I killed off Nihilis and then remember thinking after that, "I have to do _another_ planet? I thought Nihilis was It--is there really something worse than a planet-consuming monster?" So, I too felt like Malachor in some ways was anticlimactic, because Traya just didn't have the same 'bad' feel as someone who sucks the life out of entire planets.

bcarlock

[metadigital]

We can dispose of Kreia, then have to go and "mop up" Nihilus, who may not be the sharpest tool in the chest, but just the giant that wants to eat you for lunch. If you made the battle without force powers (or that any use would make Nihilus stronger), then you would have a very interesting denouement.

 

Yep. Especially interesting for Consulars. Might be an opportunity for HK-47 to save life, the universe, and everything, though.

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S'funny, HK-47 doesn't immediately strike me as the "Marvin" type. I wonder if he (HK-47) can read the last message from God, written in flaming mile-high letters, from Nihilus' bridge ...

 

S ... O ... R ...

:cool:

[Darth Coran]

thats not a bug,its just he has very little dialogue,but everybody is really easy to make a jedi,as male I managed to get everybody(excluding Bao-Dur and mira since I didn't have her)into a jedi before I met my first jedi master,I met disciple,went to the office of khoonda,than made him a jedi,and I had already gotten atton and Bao-Dur,but I gotta say,Using Visas and Handmaiden as jedi...it certainly is classy having an all-girl cabiret(sp?) of jedi.   <_<    (w00t)  :D

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A bit OT, but how did you get Atton as a Jedi before doing Nar Shaddaa? I didn't think you could LS Jedify him without taking him to the refugee sector.

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I said I didn't finish it,not that I didn't walk around. :cool:

[metadigital]

I have just been playing the second trip to Dantooine with the remnants of the Jedi Council again (because I was researching some of the underlying concepts for another thread).

 

There are certain passages where an inordinate amount of time goes by with one-track dialogue trees interspersed with numerous cut-scenes with the effect that I felt disconnected form the "role-play" aspect of the story.

 

This is a major flaw in the "direction" or the flow of the game.

 

To illustrate the "flow" I am referring to and the effect if you choose a wrong dialogue option -- it can take ten minutes or more to get to a break in the flow to enable a reload -- try this: after the historical Revan dialogue on Pergarus, try and go back and reload to change your selection.

 

Now try doing the confrontation with the Jedi Council. No matter what your PC -- regardless of choices in the Korriban cave, lightsaber, Revan, rationale for joining the Madalorian wars, or even alignment and experience -- the same events happen and mangled pop-philosophy ensues.

 

I would have liked to have a few different consequences at this point -- that I chose -- rather than herded sheep-like through the narrative hoops.

[Objulen]

[qu

Epic

ep

[Darth Vader]

The only moment that really annoys with the ending is that entire bit with the remote...

bloody boring...

[ollyhills]

now, ive been reading through here and noone seems to have realised that 99% of the promotional work was done on Nihilus. (forgive me if someone has said somthing like this - i only got past page 5). so you would naturally expect him to be the main bad guy and be the big finale, rather than just a side character with no real input into the game.

 

and i thought - what if the game finished when bastila walked in after carth sent you off to find revan? that'd give it a kind of ESB-esque cliffhanger ending, and your not left with any "well what about this and what about that" thoughts and lots of loose ends, and you'd know that a sequel was coming to explain what happens next.

[Darth Flatus]

That would suck even more.

Nihilus being promoted as the main baddie was just to fool people, so that they could incorporate the plot swerve where the main baddie turns out to be Kreia.

 

Exile fighting nihilus was like the rebels trying to blow up the death star in RoTJ, the real battle was betwen Luke and Vader or in the game - Exile and Kreia.

[Silvershadow]

That would suck even more.

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I agree. It still wouldn't have solved my questions like "But what happened to my crew?" and "No, really, what happened to my crew?" and "I REALLY don't think Atton's reasonable enough to just let the Exile go like that..." and "No, SERIOUSLY, now, WHAT happened to my crew?"

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Cliffhangers only make sense if you are going to use the same character in the next game which was canceled and the character was too powerful to start off in a fresh game.

 

Not to be overly critical of Obsidian, but it was a fairly poor design choice.

[Darth Vader]

it's pretty harsh to say that...I don't see how you can avoid to introduce a character who will become powerful by the end of the game...

who would buy a game where you are just an average padawan...

[Hildegard]

it's pretty harsh to say that...I don't see how you can avoid to introduce a character  who will become powerful by the end of the game...

who would buy a game where you are just an average padawan...

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I agree to a certain point..... with Revan and Exile and the bunch of characters from K1 and K2 that survived, introducing a new hero who would have a major role in shaping the future of the galaxy would cause a factor of "too many heroes", and as you said - who would buy a game where you are just an avarage padawan........yeah let's start with the scenario I've hit my head and I don't remember anything - that would be something that was never done before....

I think that K3 should start with Revan or Exile...... or K3 developer should invent a really good story with the third character and as I said I don't see it possible for many many reasons.......

[Darth Vader]

Hildegard I agree 100% with you.

[Cloris]

To me, Kreia is the obvious "end boss", as she goes beyond the trivial good/evil scale, and represents what you ultimately have to face in this story. Also, considering the twin theme of betrayal and wish for redemption in the story, it would be very wrong to end it all in any other way than confronting the ultimate betrayer in the place where the need for redemption was born for you and many of your friends.

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Hi! This is a really interesting thread, and it brought to mind some questions that have been stewing... This is all kind of disjointed, because I'm writing it as I read through the thread.

 

Does Kreia really go beyond good/evil? Or is it that her ultimate betrayal isn't to your character, or her previous students -- but to herself for saving the galaxy? Is it that she really isn't a "bad guy" after all? I know it's weird, but stay with me for a few moments...

 

Kreia sees connections, both between persons and between actions and futures. She sets all of this up under the guise of destroying her enemies, but isn't she the one that actually sets the galaxy up to be saved (also under the apparent pretense of destroying the Force)? The betrayer can't be exposed to soon, or all will be lost is one of the things she tells you with influence. She knows that the ONLY way that existence can be salvaged is if she and her baddie cohorts are wiped out -- she knows where everything is going and how it must end if she brings you into her game.

 

Now, I don't like Kreia's character, I tend to think of her as a prattling nag myself, but I think her most important betrayal isn't to the PC, but to herself. I think this is part of the reason she stays neutral no matter what happens; not because she doesn't care but because she is both good and evil.

 

She is a manipulator, and there is no better tool for maniplation than truth. Enough truth, at the right moment, can change the galaxy.

 

The ending could have been so much better, and I suspect, when I'm in a conspiritorial mood, that the unused material was left in the product in order to show how much better it could have been.

 

On a different tangent -- when the Jedi Masters ask the PC about killing hundreds to get there, getting stronger all the time: "What did you think that was?" Remember that? I couldn't help but say, out loud, "I thought I was playing a fricking VIDEO GAME, that's what!!!" Anybody else have a similar reaction?

 

Nihilus and Atris were pimped way too much in the promo materials to only be side characters, in my opinion. Poor choice for marketing, but then again, you can't really pimp the PC, since there isn't one way for it to look...

 

Confession: I am not a Star Wars fan -- I thought that Luke was a petulant peon, and that the recently released films were a bit better, but still not as compelling as they seem to be to others. I bought KOTORII because the reviews paralleled it to Fable, and then KOTORI so I could get more out of II. As a near-middle aged wife and mother, I am not the target audience for this type of thing.

 

Anyway, I hope my ramblings make some sense!

 

Cloris

 

PS: I did love the fact, that in true SW fashion, the fate of the universe was really left to the droids...

[edu11]

--I don't remember enjoying a plot that didn't have a climax in the end. In K2 the climax was too..... subtle.

 

--Kreia's goal is both ridiculous and unmotivated. (Reminder: Kreia = Main Boss)

 

--Does anyone remember the ritual that your party fails to interrupt? Did anyone figure out how it fits with the plot?

[Darth Flatus]

The ritual on dxun was for controlling th ebig monster on onderon. Those battles wer supposed to be concurrent.

 

Although admittedly i didnt realise th epoint of the ritual till i read it here on the boards. Its not instantly obvious and seems an awfully convoluted way to tie the two scenes - bad writing i guess.

[Cloris]

The ritual on dxun was for controlling th ebig monster on onderon. Those battles wer supposed to be concurrent.

 

Although admittedly i didnt realise th epoint of the ritual till i read it here on the boards. Its not instantly obvious and seems an awfully convoluted way to tie the two scenes - bad writing i guess.

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Too true -- if that pair of animal handlers in the tomb had added "Now, something like a drexel, well, that takes big juju," would have cleared that right up.

 

Cloris

[Wynne]

It still wouldn't have solved my questions like "But what happened to my crew?" and "No, really, what happened to my crew?" and "I REALLY don't think Atton's reasonable enough to just let the Exile go like that..." and "No, SERIOUSLY, now, WHAT happened to my crew?"

 

And then the final climax of watching the ship fly away from Malachor and: "OMG, WTF HAPPENED TO MY CREW? HS, YOU'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO TELL ME? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH! AT LEAST LET ME STAB MYSELF IN THE NECK WITH MY LIGHTSABER!"

 

...or maybe it's just me who gets that intense.

 

I bought KOTORII because the reviews paralleled it to Fable, and then KOTORI so I could get more out of II.

 

Hmm... did the revelation in KOTOR I thus not surprise you, or did it?

[Darth Vader]

--Kreia's goal is both ridiculous and unmotivated. (Reminder: Kreia = Main Boss)

 

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Kreia's goal is very interesting.her point is that it is pretty much impossible to balance the force therefore it has to be destroyed.

it's the idea that neither an extreme good or an extreme evil is good for the universe.

A bit too metaphysical for some I guess.

[Cloris]

I bought KOTORII because the reviews paralleled it to Fable, and then KOTORI so I could get more out of II.

 

Hmm... did the revelation in KOTOR I thus not surprise you, or did it?

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Well, no -- by the time I played One, I was pre-spoiled by playing Two a few times. For me, it was kind of like the recently released films -- we all know what will happen, but we don't know quite how. How they did it surpised and impressed me, and I was really pleased by that.

 

I am a complete nut over character development, it is the reason for me to play a game, and I loved what was done with the characters through Two all the way up to the confrontation at the Jedi Enclave. Then I felt rather left-at-the-alter at the way it ended. I'm with you guys "What the hell happened to my crew?!?" The writing and acting was effective enough to get me to care about these pixelated people, and then... next-to-nothing.

 

Cloris