Adding cut content to KotOR II. Some ideas...

[Mad_Scientist]

Ok, I'm sure most people here are at least somewhat familar with the fact that a lot of content was cut from KotOR II, especially around the infamous ending. Many people have discussed this many times in various threads over in the spoilers board. There also has been tons of talk about ways some of this content might be restored.

 

I know a ton of people, myself included, would love to see some of the cut content added. Many of us would even be willing to pay something for it, depending on how much content was being added and how much it would cost. In addition, there has been much talk about modders possibly using some of the recorded dialogue, design files, and other stuff that has been discovered, to add some of the cut content themselves.

 

While a mod that restored some of the cut content would be nice, an official solution would be much nicer, in my opinion. There are some very skilled and cool modders out there, but Obsidian obviously has a much better grasp on what the ending and other cut content was going to be like, as well as access to all the work that had already been done, a good knowledge of the engine, etc, etc.

 

The purpose of this thread here is to outline and discuss various ways Obsidian could restore the cut content. While my hopes of this happening are very slim, I'm not giving up yet. My purpose here is only to provide CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions and comments on how this content could be added, not to complain about it being missing. So let's keep this thread civil, please. And now, on to the ideas.

 

Content Patch:

Obsidian releases a patch for the game that does more than just fix bugs, it also adds content. In particular, this would probably expand the ending and add the HK-Factory quest. Some additional content might be added as well, who knows.

 

That would be nice. I'd be first in line to say thank you, and offer Obsidian my firstborn as a reward if this occured. I've even heard somewhere that Obsidian asked Lucasarts if they could do a content patch, so there might be some hope for this. But unfortunately, there are some pretty big issues that make this seem unlikely, in my mind.

 

One issue that would occur with adding any new content is that it is going to cost both money and time. And a free content patch would provide little tangible reward to Obsidian and Lucasarts. I know there are probably some people that, having heard about the cut content and the ending, have decided not to buy KotOR II, at least not yet. A content patch would probably get these people to buy the game. But how large a number are those people? There's no way to know, and therefore no way to really have an idea how much a content patch would effect sales.

 

The other reward a content patch would provide is some goodwill from fans. But that is something very hard to measure, and let's face it, Lucasarts is a business. How would they put a value on the goodwill that might be generated if they authorized and funded a content patch? And how much of that goodwill would even be directed towards Lucasarts? How many people would just say "I knew Obsidian had it in them, Lucasarts was just holding them back. Thank you, Obsidian. Lucasarts, I still hate you!"?

 

Another big issue with a content patch is the Xbox. There's no way Lucasarts and Obsidian are going to want to restore some of the cut content to PC users but leave Xbox users in the dark. So how would this content be added to the Xbox?

 

Xbox Live? I'm not an expert on the technical issues, but I'm not sure if it's even possible for KotOR II to have stuff added via Xbox Live. In addition, while almost everyone with a PC has internet access, a lot of people don't have Xbox Live. So how would this restored content be gotten to Xbox users? Is it possible for perhaps some special bonus disk to be released in order add the content?

 

And of course, there is the issue of save game compatibility. Adding any extensive new content could cause issues here. I know I myself wouldn't care too much if I had to restart the game to see the new content, (I plan to replay it several times anyways) but I can just see posts on various forums saying things like "HEY WHAT THE HECK?! I was halfway through the game when I heard about some big patch, so I downloaded it, and now my savegames don't work!"

 

Special Edition of KotOR II?

Obsidian and Lucasarts release a special edition of KotOR II that has the cut content restored, and perhaps some brand new content as well.

 

This has some obvious advantages and disadvantages to it. Comparing it to a content patch, for example, it doesn't have a problem with getting the new content to both PC and Xbox users.

 

This would be the ideal solution for those who have not yet purchased KotOR II, as both PC and Xbox users would be able to buy the SE and have access to the cut content right out of the box, with no need to download anything. But for those who already have payed $50 for the regular edition of the game, this could be very annoying, depending on how much cut/extra content was in this version. Some people might buy the SE, but others might refuse to buy it, simply because they would object based on principle.

 

But if this SE was done right, I think it might get a bunch of sales among those who already have KotOR II, even among those who would complain about it a lot at first. The key would be for this special edition to have quite a bit of extra content. Perhaps in edtion to the ending and HK-Factory quest, Obsidian could add the Droid Planet back. Though I heard that some of the content originally intended for this planet was included in other places, so it wouldn't be a simple matter for Obsidian to include it. Still, if they did, and added perhaps some brand new content as well, then there would be a lot of people who would be willing to get the game.

 

By getting people who have already bought KotOR II to also buy the SE, this method of restoring content could provide a lot more of a tangible reward than a content patch. But in order to ensure people buy this, it would also require a lot more effort and funds than a smaller content patch. And there is the issue that a lot of the KotOR II team has moved on to other projects. If they were to spend a bunch of time making the SE, than those other projects could suffer, and perhaps even face delays. Would Obsidian consider it worth potentially delaying NWN2 in order to make a SE of KotOR II? And what about NWN2's publisher Atari?

 

Expansion Pack?

Obsidian and Lucasarts release an expansion pack that adds a lot of the cut content, and perhaps some brand new content.

 

This would face a lot of the same issues as a Special Edition. It would provide perhaps the most obvious tangible reward. (A lot of people who might not like spending another $50 on a Special Edition wouldn't mind spending $30 on an expansion pack as much.) But it also suffers from the issue that a lot of the KotOR II team has already moved on to new things.

 

Supported mod?

Obsidian provides some tools/assistance to modders and helps them restore some of the cut content.

 

This method seems a bit unlikely. While it would cost Obsidian and Lucasarts the least time and money, it would pretty much ensure that Xbox users were left in the dark, as the Xbox doesn't support user created mods. And I'm not sure either Lucasarts or Obsidian wants to lend any official support to a solution that deson't affect both the PC and Xbox. Still, there is a slight chance this could happen.

 

 

 

So, of all these methods, what do people like the best? Would you be willing to pay $50 for a special edition, or $30 for an expansion pack, if it added things like the Droid planet and some brand new content? Are there any other ways Obsidian could restore the content that I'm missing? Any ideas on how they could overcome some of the difficulties I listed for some of the examples?

[Sharen the Exile]

I like the idea of Expansion Pack. Both PC users and X-Boxers will be happy.

 

Oh, i forget. Hello :cool: I'm new here. Sorry for my bad english. Forgive me :">

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I doubt I would buy it, but I'm not a hardcore KOTOR fan like some people here.

 

And Welcome to the boards Sharen

[DSLuke]

I wouldn't spend any more money on K2.

 

I would rather if the missing things were included in K3 :cool:

[Hive]

Why pay extra for something you actually already paid for?

[Mesa Red]

A couple of things came to mind as I read your post, Mad Scientist. First let me say I am not flaming or spaming here, I found the post to be well thought out and offering some viable solutions.

 

Good will as it pertains to companies, corporations and the like is in economics considered a tangible but oft times difficult to measure part of a business. While it is difficult to measure good will in dollar terms it can become evident especially in this type of forum. As one politican put it (paraphrasing here) one happy voter will tell ten people, but the unhappy one will tell 100. While this may not directly apply to game software or companies, it does point to the fact that happy customers will tell some friends about the game, but unhappy ones will tell the world, so to speak.

 

Having said that I offer that I would rather see LucasArts/Obsidian come forth with a content patch or expansion. This for a couple of reasons. First, like many others I was so looking forward to KotOR2 that I did not read any reviews or scanned any forums before purchasing the game. When I finished it for the second time I was convinced there was a lot of content missing and I was frustrated with the locked military sub-level and confused when unable to follow the sensor to the robot factory/planet. It was then I jumped into the forums and found answers to my questions.

 

LucasArts/Obsidian, in my opinion, would be taking the right course in regards to their customer base by issuing a free expansion that fixes the bugs and, at least, ties the loose ends together. I can live without the sub-level and even without a visit to robo-world, but the incomplete quests are another matter altogether.

 

Perhaps they can follow the lead of the BG and IcewindDale series' and show their customer base (in the KotOR 'series') that they know what is right and are willing to do it?

 

Mesa Red

[Darth Jebus]

I wouldn't spend any more money on K2.

 

I would rather if the missing things were included in K3 :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think this is what they were planning on doing from some of the stuff I've read. Just include most of the cut content in a possible K3.

 

But in terms of K2, you never say never but I honestly don't see any of this happening.

 

For the record, an expansion pack would be the most feasible route (ala Morrowind), as it would be accessible to both PC users and Xbox users.

 

But I don't think it's going to happen.

[Mad_Scientist]

I wouldn't spend any more money on K2.

 

I would rather if the missing things were included in K3 :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think this is what they were planning on doing from some of the stuff I've read. Just include most of the cut content in a possible K3.

 

But in terms of K2, you never say never but I honestly don't see any of this happening.

 

For the record, an expansion pack would be the most feasible route (ala Morrowind), as it would be accessible to both PC users and Xbox users.

 

But I don't think it's going to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But I'm not really sure some of the stuff we want would work very well in KotOR 3. Unless they started the game off at Malachar 5, and basically had you replay the ending of KotOR II, with the additional content. That would end up very weird for those who never played KotOR II, though.

[Darth Jebus]

Well, it looks like there is precedent for PC users to get all the love and console users to get the shaft.

 

Fable: The Lost Chapters is now coming exlusively to the PC. And it's going to include ALL of the cut content that was on the Xbox version.

 

So, Lionhead realized that they had released an incomplete game (boy, did they ever) and they are now rectifying that situation and then some.

 

But man, I only had the Xbox version and so I get no love. Not that I want any btw. I found Fable to be totally underwhelming.

[darth spock]

I'm seriously doubting that Lucas Arts or Obsidian will make an expansion for this game. I mean, why add new content? Why rehire the actors when you could spend the money on a new game or KotOR 3? I think that a content patch would be a nice thing to give to devoted KotOR fans (like myself) who like the cut endings and wish they were in the game. I'm doubting that patch will have cut content and that it will just fix errors -- Obsidian is a new comapny and is probably working on a new game rather than cut content from an already existing game. I do agree that an expansion pack and content patch would be nice. I would pay $5-$10 for something extra for KotOR 2 but nothing more... (even $10 is a stretch).

[Mesa Red]

Jebus,

 

I fully understand what you are saying. At least I think I do. Please forgive if this is a bit off topic, but in our family we have two consoles (XBox and PS2) and two PCs. And each is a trade off when it comes to games.

 

I only buy the games I want to play (with one exception NCAA2005FB) for the PC platform becasue MOST games are just beyond Beta when they hit the store shelves and will, almost without exception, require a patch of some sort. Console online access not withstanding, it is much much easier to get a patch for the PC than for consoles. Additionally, from what I have read and heard, MODS are also easier to do for the PC. I like both platforms, but as stated, I lean towards the PC more for MY gaming.

 

Thank you for your indulgence and again I apologize for the off topic post.

 

Mesa Red

[Jellybelly]

I really find it curious that many people here will complain and bitch, the be completely unsupportive when there actually is a glimmer of hope that Obsidian and LucasArts will adress these issues.

 

I say a content patch would be fantastic, and I'd even pay for it. Hell, I'd pay full price for a SE issue of the game.

[Yst]

My best hope would be for a partial restoration of ending content in some less-than-complete form (some things, like custom animations for the purpose of the scenes, are presumably not something fans can restore) by modders. This might be text-only for some parts, or include voice for parts which permit it. It seems the most probable solution.

 

Something akin to Platter's Planescape: Torment Restoration Pack.

[Mesa Red]

Perhaps, Jellybean, if you looked at it another way you could understand why folks are a bit upset. I do, however, think that saying we are totally unsupportive is way overstating the responses.

 

If a person paid the full $50 for the game and earned $6 per hour at their job, that means they had to work a full day plus part of the next day to pay for the game. Approximately 1/5 of their work week based on a five day eight hour work schedule. That means they invested their time and effort to support LucasArts and Obsidian in a direct manner. Hardly unsupportive to my way of thinking.

 

So now they have the game and most likely enjoy it up until the final say 10% of the game. The ending that is to say. Now they may or may not have had to deal with crashes, black screens that never go away during transistions, and they may have even overlooked the quests that can never be completed and the areas that look available but aren't, and they might ignore some of the meaningless encounters and conversations as well as cutscenes that eventually make no sense what-so-ever. Mind you, I am not complaining, only pointing out some of the fun things LA and Obsidian put in the game for our enjoyment. And through all of this wonderful developement, they can take satisfaction that they should not be disappointed or angry, because, after all, they only had to work X amount of hours to pay for such a well developed and complete gaming experience.

 

Those who are satisfied with what they get when they get less than they pay for should not look down at those of us who demand a quality product for the money we spend. If not for those that point out, complain and bitch if you will, about poor performance by any company be it gaming software, home building, road construction, or tree pruning the quality of work and craftsmanship would suffer overall, and we would be forced to settle for whatever the business decided was adequate. Sorry, that is not the way I believe. I will continue to take businesses to task for shoddy workmanship, whether directly or indirectly as with these forums. I work for my money and give an honest day's effort each and every day. I expect nothing less from the businesses I deal with.

 

 

Mesa Red

[Dehumanizer]

This is strange.

 

It's wrong to have to pay again for stuff that should already be part of the game.

 

But if the only choices are paying, or never getting the proper ending, the droid planet and the resolution of several plotlines, I'd pay.

 

Here's a suggestion: release an expansion pack (and later a "game of the year edition", also for the Xbox, just like Morrowind), not just with the missing stuff (but certainly including it), but with completely new content as well. A couple of extra planets, a couple of new prestige classes, a bunch of optional quests (including a "big one", which would be the major selling point). That way, LA and Obsidian would profit, the expansion wouldn't be seen as "completing an unfinished game", and we'd not merely be paying for something that should be included in the box.

 

What do you think?

[The man in the iron mask]

I think it would be completely unfair to make those that already paid for the game pay again just to get the extra content. Especially since, on the PC version, all the dialog and such is already there. There should be a way for those of us who bought the unfinished version to trade it in for the finished one or something like that.

 

An expansion pack or special edition could change everything. Such a game would surely provide new feats/powers/classes/planets/etc. which would make paying for it worthwhile. If there is to be a content patch, or something like that, there shouldn't be any need for those who paid full price for the original game to pay again.

 

I realize this could cause problems for Xbox users, but perhaps something could be done where you send in your copy of the original game, and get a new, complete one in return. This could be done for both PC and Xbox users, and would also ensure that only people who legitimately bought the original game would get the new version free of charge (except for shipping, I guess).

[Yst]

See, I don't understand this argument that views KotOR II as "unfinished" by virtue of the fact that unused content was retained unimplimented in a release version, while other games which did not make the mistake of including unused content in the release get to be deemed "finished" games. My favourite game ever - Planescape: Torment - has just as many unimplimented bits, I'm fairly sure, as KotOR II, but I don't consider the game unfinished. Incidentally, the reason that I know the majority of the unimplimented bits were ever there in the first place is the same: they were included in the release version's data files, but unused. If they were omitted from the data files, would the game be finished, while with them included, it is not? Can I switch PS:T back and forth from being a finished game to an unfinished game simply by swapping those files in and out at will?

 

Since when is a game judged not by the content of the product, but instead by what is left out? We can certainly judge its content and comment on continuity errors as problems with the product. But as far as merely unimplimented aspects of the game go, the removal of a quest or a planet from the product does not make it unfinished, any more than, say, the existence of a 5 hour (Japanese release) cut of the movie Dune makes all other versions of the movie the "unfinished" versions.

[Valdartak]

The man in the iron mask has the only solution I would agree with, other than the free dl'd of a content/bug patch, to send in our disks and pay for shipping of a complete/bug free version. I bought my PC version a few days after it was released and I never take previews of games at face value they deal with limited versions of games seeing what the publisher/game companies want them to see..I bought this strictly because of how much I had enjoyed KOTOR I and will never purchase a second in series game on that premise again. As the orginal poster stated, $50 is a lot of money to some people, me being one of them.

[Dehumanizer]

See, I don't understand this argument that views KotOR II as "unfinished" by virtue of the fact that unused content was retained unimplimented in a release version, while other games which did not make the mistake of including unused content in the release get to be deemed "finished" games. 

 

I believe this has been discussed to death, and I certainly don't want the mods to lock this thread. In short, people (including myself, but certainly not everyone, of course) believe KOTOR2 is unfinished because (and unlike Torment, for instance):

 

- the ending feels rushed, empty, and is of a much worse quality than the rest of the game

 

- many minor plots (like relationships / conflicts between NPCs) don't go anywhere, seem to be forgotten

 

- major, highly desirable content is mentioned in the game (not the unused files), but is missing (like the droid factory)

 

- and, yes, the unused dialogues and plot are, somehow, of much higher quality than the released ending (this is arguable, of course, but most people seem to be disappointed by the ending, including most of the "late" reviews). It's not just a question of "there's something else in the CDs".

[Jellybelly]

Let's keep this realistic. The trade-old-for-new-idea you're proposing is completely utopical. It wouldn't profit LucasArts or Obsidian in the slightest, and this is a capitalist society we're talking about. Even if they did the contents for free, they would have to be paid some amount of money for the cds and shipping to pay for expenses.

 

As for the distribution of a possible content patch for x-box users, wouldn't it be convenient to have the largest game magazines have it on their cds/dvds?

 

A free content patch, restoring the essential lost content would do it for me, so would a SE or GOTY edition. However, I do not expect to be given or traded this new edition for free. That's just disrespectful toward both companies.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I believe this has been discussed to death, and I certainly don't want the mods to lock this thread. In short, people (including myself, but certainly not everyone, of course) believe KOTOR2 is unfinished because (and unlike Torment, for instance):

 

- the ending feels rushed, empty, and is of a much worse quality than the rest of the game

 

- many minor plots (like relationships / conflicts between NPCs) don't go anywhere, seem to be forgotten

 

- major, highly desirable content is mentioned in the game (not the unused files), but is missing (like the droid factory)

 

- and, yes, the unused dialogues and plot are, somehow, of much higher quality than the released ending (this is arguable, of course, but most people seem to be disappointed by the ending, including most of the "late" reviews). It's not just a question of "there's something else in the CDs".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats unpolished rather than unfinished. Unfinished would be arriving at a point in the game and there being nothing there. Like falling off the edge of the world. That dosnt happen in KOTORII.

 

The game has an end , therefore it is finished. It's whether or not it is finished to anyones personal satisfaction that is the only issue.

[Yst]

Anyway, adding yet more official endings to the same game (i.e., as a consequence of a rerelease/content patch/what-have-you) seems problematic, especially for a pseudo-canonical franchise game (whether or not it's officially canon, it is influential) like this one.

[Guard Dog]

My best hope would be for a partial restoration of ending content in some less-than-complete form (some things, like custom animations for the purpose of the scenes, are presumably not something fans can restore) by modders.  This might be text-only for some parts, or include voice for parts which permit it.  It seems the most probable solution.

 

Something akin to Platter's Planescape: Torment Restoration Pack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thanks YST, I did not have that. I was thinking of replaying PST too....

[Dehumanizer]

Thanks YST, I did not have that. I was thinking of replaying PST too....

Replaying PS:T is always a good idea.

[Platter]

Something akin to Platter's Planescape: Torment Restoration Pack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the Fix Pack. There is a Restoration Pack but it is not made by me.