The Kreia/Kae Question

[OneWithStrange]

I really like how TSL leaves a lot of stuff open and allows the player to basically formulate their own inner plot to make sense of the loose threads. Maybe that's just me trying to make good of an incomplete game, but this approach is a lot more intriguing than having everything explained right away.

 

On burning questions like this, Forna, though, I really wish we could just ask Obsidian and get a response

 

-Ben

[ada]

Last night i found a boolean tag in the save game file.

It was :

SOME Numbers_Kreia_Hand_Mom

So maybe Forna is right.

[Ace]

Hey Ace, how would you have scripted a great final scene where Kreia passes away in the arms of her daughter, Brianna?  Perhaps Kae's face would suddenly recover some of it's youth as Malachor and the dark side slowly released it's grip on her.

 

What would have been their parting words to one another?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hrmm... I don't know. It'd have to be something Kreia-ish. Maybe:

 

<The Handmaiden slowly approaches the Exile and a dying Kreia>

Handmaiden: Exile, permit me to ask her one last question.

Exile: Brianna are you...

Handmaiden: <Dodging the question> My body will heal. <With a mixture of impatience and fear> My question?

<The Exile Nods, the Handmaiden kneels down by Kreia>

Handmaiden: I have now seen you fight. Did you ever care for me as you care for him?

Kreia: If you do not know the answer for yourself, you are as much of a fool as Atton.

Handmaiden: <Irritated, but her voice is full of fear> You did not answer my question, did you ever... care for me?

Kreia: Do you ask for the same sheepish worship that Yusanis gave Arren Kae from me? Or do you ask for love? The love that no... Jedi can ever know... or give.

<Kreia releases a breath and looks almost relieved> Know this, your mother never knew love until it was too late. She did not know love when she was no longer a Jedi... She did not know love even when she could no longer be even a Sith. She did not know love...

<Her eyes begin to close, the Handmaiden holds her hand, and her last words are a whisper> ...until now.

<The Handmaiden stares at Kreia's body for a moment, and under her breath says> ...there is no death... there is...

Exile: <holding the Handmaiden's hand> the force.

[phiont]

[Mondo]

The Great Phantom - time to change your sig. :D

 

Good work Forna.

[phiont]

I totally agree, OneWithStrange.

 

Nice find, Ada.

 

Powerful script, Ace.

 

Thanks Mondo.

[Hive]

Last night i found a boolean tag in the save game file.

It was :

SOME Numbers_Kreia_Hand_Mom

So maybe Forna is right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Still, this could just refer to a dialogue option where Kreia talks about Handmaiden's mother.

[baibai]

Actually...I would find this upsetting if it were cut not because of time restraints but because of story balance between a male exile and female exile gaming experience. Even though I'm intending to replay the game many times...doing so and gaining further insight to Kreia would have been so cool. ;-;

 

Kudos too Ace. That script gave me major goosebumps (the good kind xD).

[The Great Phantom]

Well, after searching all of my 800+ LS save files, I've decided that it is possible, and the ending convo theorized above would have been AWESOME!

 

As for the thing, at the end, though, if Kreia was told she was becoming one with the Force, I think she'd pry herself from the brink of death just to avoid the Force at all costs... If she does die, then it brings her peace, though...

 

Kreia wasn't actually DS, she was more insane than evil... You have to agree, and if you want to hear my reasoning, let me know and I'll explain some more.

 

Handmaiden's going to look GOOD when she's 300 years old...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Kreia was not insane. She was simply on a higher level of understanding than most people.

[stujlaird]

Kreia was not insane. She was simply on a higher level of understanding than most people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's a difference?

[nightmaresofsorrow]

Kreia was not insane. She was simply on a higher level of understanding than most people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's a difference?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes

[lowiej]

Heres something that screws your theory. The Exile knew her mother. You can get the conversation where you tell her that her mother was a jedi and a great warrior without talking to Kreia or Handmaiden about it beforehand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exile only comments on knowing the mother once Kreia has told the Exile about her the exile didnt actually no her.

 

Kreia could be the Handmaidens mother, Kreia said Arren Kae was beautiful, Atton said Kreia was beautiful once, darkside makes Kreia look old. Kreia could hav Trained REvan under her name Arren Kae and then as Traya (perhaps shes the betrayer because she betrayed the jedi beliefs by falling in love and having a baby)

[earthno3]

but people yusannis did betray kreia if kreia was kae by remarrying the other handmaidens mother and forgetting about her a not trying to find her

[Grant Dempsey]

Don't forget, guys, that one of the biggest themes/ideas in Handmaiden's sidestory was "disloyalty" and "betrayal". Arren Kae betrayed the Jedi Order by falling in love with Yusanis and bearing a child. Yusanis betrayed the one he "pledged himself to" by falling in love with Arren Kae and leaving to fight beside her in the Mandalorian Wars. Handmaiden was a living reminder (the result) of their disloyalties and viewed as such by the rest of the Handmaiden Sisters. Furthermore, it was believed within the Echani culture that things such as disloyalty and betrayal were traits that actually ran in bloodlines. Handmaiden strove and trained hard to prove that this was not so.

 

Now, if Kreia was Arren Kae after having been corrupted by the energies of Malachor V and was Handmaiden's mother, imagine how her title as "Darth Traya" -- "Lord of Betrayal" -- would fit into the aspect of Handmaiden's sidestory that dealt with "disloyalty and betrayal being traits that ran in bloodlines"?

 

Also, by accepting the Exile's offer to train her as a Jedi Guardian and to feel the Force, she, of course, ultimately betrayed her oath to Master Atris. In addition to that, after Kreia was defeated at the Trayus Core, when she spoke of Handmaiden's future, she said that Handmaiden would follow Master Atris' path as a historian and chronicler of the lore, artifacts, and beliefs of the Jedi Order...which, of course, not only led to Master Atris' fall to the Dark Side of the Force, but was also Kreia's path in life, which also led to her fall. Could it be that Handmaiden was destined to meet the same fate?

 

If Kreia was indeed Arren Kae and indeed Handmaiden's mother, that would throw a very interesting spin on Handmaiden's sidestory... I don't know if I'm quite convinced of it myself, though. It's a very imaginative theory and I like the ideas a lot, but it was never explicitly mentioned during the game itself and it could be that we're overlooking some fact about Kreia and/or Arren Kae's histories that would make this theory impossible.

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia was insane. She wanted to destroy/deafen all that feel the Force, and only the Strong would go deaf, taking out their strength in the first place. This would kill pretty much everything, including herself.

 

I think that the "True Sith" could have tricked her somehow, because all she manages to do is create enough echoes to be heard anywhere... If she had continued, then the above senario would be completed. But, she failed, and the echoes were left to reverberate for millenia... eventually tapering off into nothingness...

 

Just an idea, but I didn't put in a lot of detail...

[tu2thepoo]

There's also the line at the Trayus Core where the exile says "I didn't know [Atris] had any feelings for me", and Kreia replies something like "Ah, yes, it's what is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" (or something similarly pedantic ). She could be hinting at never being able to tell Handmaiden the truth (assuming she's in your party). With the council dead, no one would be able to tell Handmaiden about her heritage, such as it is.

 

That is, if Kreia is her mom.

 

[edit]

unless someone mentioned this already. i dunno.

[nobones]

So therefore if Kreia thinks girls are beautiful she's a lesbian

[phiont]

With the council dead, no one would be able to tell Handmaiden about her heritage, such as it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't played it with Disciple in my party, but from reading the dialog.tlk file I have the impression that he would have been able to recognise Master Kae. It's interesting that he often finds himself pausing and unable to remember various details of the Jedi masters. I wonder if there's any indication of Kreia imposing a telepathic memory block on him as she's done with others like T3.

[witchzenka]

So therefore if Kreia thinks girls are beautiful she's a lesbian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, no - being able to recognize the beauty of a human being has little to do with sexual orientation.

[The Great Phantom]

As for the Disciple thing...

 

He's old, his hair is turning grey... He's not going to remember all of the Jedi Masters... (Sorry, I just don't like him very much.)

 

It's a possibility, knowing the Witch Called Kreia...

[KurtDunniehue]

So therefore if Kreia thinks girls are beautiful she's a lesbian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, no - being able to recognize the beauty of a human being has little to do with sexual orientation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Now, if she was from the Greek island of Lesbos, she'd totally be a lesbian.

[Zilod]

Kreia was insane. She wanted to destroy/deafen all that feel the Force, and only the Strong would go deaf, taking out their strength in the first place. This would kill pretty much everything, including herself.

She would strenghten the man...

The force is not just a usefull tool, force sensitive use the force to sustain themselves, to fill their weakness, due to this they will never improve or "fight" to become better as the force is there.

 

for example

if you break your legs to point that you need to do a lot of reabilitation to walk again but instead to "fight" and to do exercice you go around with a wheelchair is likely that you will never walk again.

 

the force is like that it prevents to develop your own skills becoming a sort of "replacement" of yourself.

 

The force is also something you can't really control, as Kreia says (and even Yoda to a degree), is manipulative and prepare a destiny for everyone, it doesn't care about humanity it just seek balance, regardless of how many people will die.

The mandalorean and jedi civil war are made for that, the jedi extermination by Nihilus is made for that. Even in the first trilogy we see a similar path...

 

 

Kreia propose is a human evolution, she is not looking for a world where the stronger put in submission the weak one (is this even wtih the force) she is looking to a world where a man can express himself and his talents, forgin his own destiny.

 

 

I think that the "True Sith" could have tricked her somehow, because all she manages to do is create enough echoes to be heard anywhere... If she had continued, then the above senario would be completed.

 

Probably she want to create a echo, but that one is the Exile that can be an example for all the humanity.

 

(if someone was cheated by the "true siths" or by the force i think that it could be Revan.... provocation hihi )

 

 

 

 

for the beauty... for a man is more difficult to "recognize" and speak of the beauty of another man, i have some problems too with that , for a woman i see that is generally different as they are more inclined to discuss and appreciate the beauty of other wimen.

[witchzenka]

Now, if she was from the Greek island of Lesbos, she'd totally be a lesbian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

[tmp]

I haven't played it with Disciple in my party, but from reading the dialog.tlk file I have the impression that he would have been able to recognise Master Kae.

He probably would, except he never gets to see her throughout the whole game until nearly the end, i think. (and when he does, he's horrified in the "for how long have you been with us" kind of way)

 

there's quite a few cutscenes on Ebon Hawk with Kreia moving around Disciple and tormenting him mentally... but never letting him see her. It looks like she's shielding herself from him, constantly affecting his mind. Now with this whole theory of her origins that makes quite a lot of sense why she'd act this way around him... "