Can we truly judge Obsidian based solely on KOTOR2

[gleeful]

People bought Bloodlines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not enough apparently as troika -supposedly- had to close shop.

 

and for that i mainly blame the horrible bugginess that was mentioned in every single review and dominated the forums.

 

i bought it by the way and love it to pieces - but i waited till the patch came out.

 

kind regards

gleeful

[Belhawk]

I didn't have any real problems, just a couple times the game froze. The game was very enjoyable and I felt compelled to play to the early hours of the morning. Any game will have bugs and need patching, KoTOR 1 needed patching and people with ati cards complained the most abt having problems.

If u want to complain abt buggy games, then play daggerfall without any patches, then u will have a real reason to complain.

[Objulen]

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords was overall a good game. I enjoyed it.

 

However, that being said, the removal of all this cut content really disappoints me. Alot of the plot points brought up in the game were glossed over at best, and the ending was rather hollow, with a quick finish that screams "rushed". This sort of content would have been the difference between a good game and a great game, IMO, and I have to agree with the Resident Cynic article.

[gleeful]

People bought Bloodlines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not enough apparently as troika -supposedly- had to close shop.

 

and for that i mainly blame the horrible bugginess that was mentioned in every single review and dominated the forums.

 

i bought it by the way and love it to pieces - but i waited till the patch came out.

 

kind regards

gleeful

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

gee, a few hours after my post it's official: troika are gone.

 

 

 

Direct from Leonard Boyarsky.

 

As many of you may have already heard, Troika has laid off all of its employees and is closing its doors due to our inability to secure funding for future projects. We have not yet made the decision as to whether Troika Games as an entity will regroup and pursue future projects or simply cease to exist. We want to thank all of our fans for their support these past seven years, it has really meant a lot to us that there were people out there who enjoyed our games enough to create fan-sites and follow our progress as a company. But we especially want to thank all of our employees - we had the pleasure of working with the some of the most dedicated, hard working, creative people in the industry, and we really appreciate all that they did for Troika.

 

Thanks for everything,

 

Tim, Leonard, and Jason

 

 

 

sad, sad, sad.

 

kind regards

gleeful

[Degage]

Don't pay much attention to those comments.  I've yet to see a game forum shortly after release without comments like those.  There are whiners and drama queens in every group.

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Yeah those people that expect quality really suck, why can't they just pay their 50$ and shut up.

[NeverwinterKnight]

What really suprises me is that LucasArts would make such a poor decision, late in the process, to push the game out early.  How could they not be concerned about damaging a potential franchise?  It's all the more confusing because the interview in the latest Game Informer magazine with the guy that now runs LucasArts is full of really positive ideas and philosophies on his part.  Things like not over-exposing the Star Wars brand with too many quickly produced games.  That seems contrary to the idea that LucasArts changed the schedule on Obsidian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe that was the reason for the decision to make some employee changes at lucasarts. perhaps the "new boss" didnt like the rushed, haphazzard way the franchise was being run and is now implementing changes to see that fiascos like the kotor2 one doesnt happen again. *shrugs*

[kirottu]

Volourn has said many times that the game wasn

[BruceDickenson]

Right, now since completing the game, and reading peoples comments, I have found a some of them saying:

'I wish Bioware made this'

or

'You've lost a customer Obsidian'.

 

I find this rather melodramactic. I mean, they are juding Obsidian's ability on one game.

Admittedly, some things are truly not to my liking. The lack of quality NPC interaction, and a rather boring ending, but I'm not judging Obsidian entirely on KOTOR2 alone, yet others are, and I find this to be an injustice.

 

If you think about it, they have a high quality simply from people who work with them, such as Chris Avellone. The thing is, they are, and will develop more games in the future, so I'm reserving judgement on Obsidian until I see more of their products.

 

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

Okay rant over. Now let comment posting begin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Obsidian can only be judged by the games they themselves have made. Feargus Urquhart and many of the people on his team are responsible for some fantastic games, several of them my personal favorites. But they are playing against a stacked deck right now.

 

KOTOR2's situation has been well documented as far as the quick turn time is concerned, but they are lcoked into a position right now where their future seems murky at best.

 

They are creating NWN2, which honestly, I doubt it will live up to its promise no matter how much I wish it would. NWN was disappointing for me, but I do hope that Obsidian can fix what was broken in the original installment and its 2 expansions.

 

As for KOTOR3. who knows what will happen, its all speculation who is even going to work on it at this point, but it seems Obsidian will have an opportunity to make up for all that was wrong in this game.

[Stargate: 2000]

Volourn has said many times that the game wasn

[stoo]

Right, now since completing the game, and reading peoples comments, I have found a some of them saying:

'I wish Bioware made this'

or

'You've lost a customer Obsidian'.

 

I find this rather melodramactic. I mean, they are juding Obsidian's ability on one game.

Admittedly, some things are truly not to my liking. The lack of quality NPC interaction, and a rather boring ending, but I'm not judging Obsidian entirely on KOTOR2 alone, yet others are, and I find this to be an injustice.

 

If you think about it, they have a high quality simply from people who work with them, such as Chris Avellone. The thing is, they are, and will develop more games in the future, so I'm reserving judgement on Obsidian until I see more of their products.

 

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

Okay rant over. Now let comment posting begin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well well. I actually HAVE been complaining about the game, and a little bit about Obsidian. But, also, I've always been saying that I wished OE will be the one developing K3, so they can prove what they're capable of. And I'm thinking of those games we know of, with great plots, great endings, cool combat and very few bugs (Black Isle Studios, anyone?).

On my part, OE hasn't lost a customer. I'll buy nwn2, and k3 (whoever the developers will be). And I'll never judge any company on a one-game basis, else I would have stopped buying LucasArts games LONG time ago (Rebellion, anyone? Afterlife? MI4?), just to make a fitting example.

[Juriel]

It all depends on whether Obsidian completes the game or not.

 

If they show they care about the players and the franchise and their own art, they'll redo the ending to BE AN ENDING, instead of an intolerable piece of crap. Added NPC interaction to the rest of the game I think would be too much to ask for.

 

So my opinion on them as a whole hinges completely on whether they fix that one part of the game, the part (everything after the meeting at the Enclave) that they obviously threw together in just one day. If they cannot be bothered to make palatable the one part of the game that most defines what feelings people will walk away from the game with, and what they have played towards for multiple days, what acts as the reward for the player for caring about the story and the characters...then they are hardly worth any respect.

 

They have talented people working for them, yes - some of the dialog and characters are just lovely. But if it is encased in a package of 'screw you, player', it gets kind of annoying.

[Delerius_Jedi]

What really suprises me is that LucasArts would make such a poor decision, late in the process, to push the game out early.  How could they not be concerned about damaging a potential franchise?  It's all the more confusing because the interview in the latest Game Informer magazine with the guy that now runs LucasArts is full of really positive ideas and philosophies on his part.  Things like not over-exposing the Star Wars brand with too many quickly produced games.  That seems contrary to the idea that LucasArts changed the schedule on Obsidian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe that was the reason for the decision to make some employee changes at lucasarts. perhaps the "new boss" didnt like the rushed, haphazzard way the franchise was being run and is now implementing changes to see that fiascos like the kotor2 one doesnt happen again. *shrugs*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I hope that includes a pink-slip for Mike Gallo, then.

 

As for KotOR2. I have to be honest and say that I haven't enjoyed it nearly as much as KotOR. It feels too rushed, too incomplete...unfinished. And the lack of stuff like deeply involving romance plots and more NPC interaction were really a huge disappointment. The ending was directly tragic and my overall judgment of Obsidian and KotOR2 has to be a poor one. Yes: they made Planescape Torment, but to me that just worsens the KotOR2 situation...knowing that the team has talent, but squandered it. Some of the cut material on the disc is really golden and surpasses what they actually put in the game by miles.

[Astatine]

What really suprises me is that LucasArts would make such a poor decision, late in the process, to push the game out early.  How could they not be concerned about damaging a potential franchise?  It's all the more confusing because the interview in the latest Game Informer magazine with the guy that now runs LucasArts is full of really positive ideas and philosophies on his part.  Things like not over-exposing the Star Wars brand with too many quickly produced games.  That seems contrary to the idea that LucasArts changed the schedule on Obsidian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe that was the reason for the decision to make some employee changes at lucasarts. perhaps the "new boss" didnt like the rushed, haphazzard way the franchise was being run and is now implementing changes to see that fiascos like the kotor2 one doesnt happen again. *shrugs*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I hope that includes a pink-slip for Mike Gallo, then.

 

As for KotOR2. I have to be honest and say that I haven't enjoyed it nearly as much as KotOR. It feels too rushed, too incomplete...unfinished. And the lack of stuff like deeply involving romance plots and more NPC interaction were really a huge disappointment. The ending was directly tragic and my overall judgment of Obsidian and KotOR2 has to be a poor one. Yes: they made Planescape Torment, but to me that just worsens the KotOR2 situation...knowing that the team has talent, but squandered it. Some of the cut material on the disc is really golden and surpasses what they actually put in the game by miles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought the dialogue in KOTOR2 (as it is) was deeper and more intriguing than that in KOTOR1. And what's with the obsession with romance plots? They usually just irritate me...

[Delerius_Jedi]

I thought the dialogue in KOTOR2 (as it is) was deeper and more intriguing than that in KOTOR1.  And what's with the obsession with romance plots?  They usually just irritate me... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well it's more the half-hearted approach than anything else, personally. I mean: If they're gonna do a romance plot they should take the time to do it right(I know that definition is very individual). I think I'd have taken it better if they'd just been honest and said that they didn't want to do romances from the get-go.

[Sarkus]

It all depends on whether Obsidian completes the game or not.

 

If they show they care about the players and the franchise and their own art, they'll redo the ending to BE AN ENDING, instead of an intolerable piece of crap. Added NPC interaction to the rest of the game I think would be too much to ask for.

 

So my opinion on them as a whole hinges completely on whether they fix that one part of the game, the part (everything after the meeting at the Enclave) that they obviously threw together in just one day. If they cannot be bothered to make palatable the one part of the game that most defines what feelings people will walk away from the game with, and what they have played towards for multiple days, what acts as the reward for the player for caring about the story and the characters...then they are hardly worth any respect.

 

They have talented people working for them, yes - some of the dialog and characters are just lovely. But if it is encased in a package of 'screw you, player', it gets kind of annoying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They won't be doing any of that.

[NeverwinterKnight]

I think I'd have taken it better if they'd just been honest and said that they didn't want to do romances from the get-go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they did. atleast chris avellone did in one of his designer ramblings. he commented specifically that the "romance" wouldnt be anything like kotor1 and it would be more about interaction and "friendship" than blatant romance between characters.

[stoo]

[snip]

 

I'm hardly going to take it personally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's coz you got it for free, possibly. J/K. :D

 

Honestly, I must admit that I'm much more critique about games, since I started paying them with my painstakingly earned quids (no more money from parents or gifts or else for me). And a disappointing end really makes a game's expeirence bitter. Of course, I know this isn't anything personal from OE to make me angry. Or is it?

[Delerius_Jedi]

I think I'd have taken it better if they'd just been honest and said that they didn't want to do romances from the get-go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they did. atleast chris avellone did in one of his designer ramblings. he commented specifically that the "romance" wouldnt be anything like kotor1 and it would be more about interaction and "friendship" than blatant romance between characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, he should've let out the L-word, then. And no offense to Mr. Avelleone: But in hindsight all his "Designer ramblings" just seem like vain attempts to pass off all the stuff that was cut/not done as something they had planned all along. But anyways: This isn't a bashing of designer choices, this was just an expression that KotOR2 has indeed left me skeptical of Obsidian products.

[steelfiredragon]

no you don't have the right to judge

[Delerius_Jedi]

Maybe not judge, but everyone's entitled to form and express their opinion. That's what I've seen people do.

[Juriel]

I guess I just don't understand the bitterness some people have about a game.  Sure, I was disappointed by the ending, but I'm hardly going to take it personally.

 

It is the fact that KotOR is one of the extremely rare RPGs to come out at all these days. And it has the potential to be awesome. So, to see that potential wasted and presented half-heartedly...is annoying. In this case, it does manage to convey a definite sense of 'we do not care about this piece of crap', which then means they don't care about the players who want to care about the game and characters.

 

Really, I am not 'omg Obsidian stole my cookies!' bitter. It is just the LAZINESS and UNCARINGNESS of the ending that gets me, as this is one of the few games that I managed to sort of like. So in this case it is personal on the 'well, looks like there is no hope of getting any good games out at any point' level. If that makes any sense.

 

It is a betrayal on a large scale!

[Darth Tratious]

hell no the ending and all the cut crap kinda pissed me off but i blame LA for that 12 month time table i think if we gave OE the time it needed and not the time LA gave them the game would have been so much better and it woulda put m4_78 and hk base in

[Juriel]

Yes, they were on a tight schedule. But they knew it. So that alone does not excuse them of CHOOSING to go with the worst ending they could think up.

[Stargate: 2000]

hell no the ending and all the cut crap kinda pissed me off but i blame LA for that 12 month time table i think if we gave OE the time it needed and not the time LA gave them the game would have been so much better and it woulda put m4_78 and hk base in

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell if they had left the DL capabilities in the Xbox version they could have made them into one of the 6 pre-planned DLC packs, but since they took that out of the Xbox version I am not sure if there will be any DLC for the PC since they will more than likely insight a riot if they make DLC for the PC.

[gamesneal]

Apart from the rushed ending and all the continuity mistakes. the game was gloomy, depressing. You kept going to dead or devastated worlds, the jedi council weak supercilious fools. These guys made Fallout, a bleak post apocayliptic world. This felt un Star Wars. Besides I hated the the major plot developments thru cur-scenes and violating all game mechanics. (spoiler) The fight between Atris and Handmaiden, the fight with Sion on Korridan,where even if you kick their ass they automatically win outside the game rules, the numerous times you surrender without option of fighting, Telos Atris Hiden Fortress, Mandolorian Camp,(/spoiler). No, I will not buy another obsidian game again. Kotor was a birthday present, I am suspicious about Lucas Arts. This felt like a $30 expansion pack.