Kreia's history *SPOILERS*

[Zilod]

Kreia is my fav char of TSL, and probably one of my fav all time chars.

 

Trying to figure out what happened to her and why she turned to DS i found some things that seemed to me incronguences.

 

the official chronicles

They say that Kreia was a jedi (or a nominal one) until the end of KOTOR1, from the mandalorian wars to that time she felt guilty for Revan, and this is the main reason of her fall. Also is stated that she left the academy to search Revan when he disappeared and followed his steps to Malacor V, where the corruption of the planet completed her fall.

 

These facts explain well why Kreia and Atris share the same destiny, the become betrayers because they where betrayed, and the aspect, present in all the game, of "wrong" teaching that where a possible cause of apprentices fall.

Note that if things went like that Kreia's teaching where not "wrong", maybe they where misterious, but still following the code, she was blamed by some of the other jedis (like Atris), but was Revan to make his choice.

It also explain very well the holograms of the Exile trial, when they speak alot about this thing.

 

Now if these fact can explain well some things, there are some other that remain unknown and there are also some conflicts against some fundamental aspect of the game.

I think that it can make sense if Revan was DS, but if he was redeemed this "theory" lose a bit of strenght.

Seem almost impossible that Kreia never tried to contact Revan after his capture, and is likelly that her guilt where not so strong if Revan saved the republic against the siths.

It can still be possible, that when Revan returned she alredy "felt" to her emotions but still not likelly that she never encountered him or, considering her strong feelings, joined him in the fight against the siths.

 

Also if these things can be explained there are some conflicts.

 

During the game in Kreia seem to be present another strong "feeling", the hunger for knowledge, speaking with her about Atris, and at the jedi enclave (both paths) it seem that was even this hunger a cause of her fall, she where trying to understand the force and found the code not sufficent to answer her question (she say that directly and more than one time), it also seem that her teachings reflected that to a degree.

 

In the chronicles these things are not even mentioned, maybe even on purporse, is still possible, and imo likelly, that when Revan's teachings reflected this disbelieve, but if we assume that when here that Revan was not the central point of her fault and what said above about the betrayer path loose strenght.

Also negating this, we negate a part that i think is very evident in the game and that the chronicles can't explain.

 

there are also more direct conflicts....

At jedi enclave, Vrook at some point tells Kreia that he tought she where dead during the mandalorian wars.

This is impossible for the chronicles, because for all the mandalorian wars Kreia was with the jedis, it could be that he is referring to a sort of spiritual death, but doesn't seem so appropriate, expecially as she reply that was false and she become stronger.

In both cases, Vrook referring to a phisical or spiritual death, it seem to me that this stance place Kraia's "final" fall during the mandalorian wars, and not after the destruction of the Starforge.

 

There is also a time factor that i think is important.

For the chronicles it seem that Kreia have 2-3 years to become what she is now, it seem really short time to me.

Consider that she have to search Revan, explore all Korriban (a thinkg probably not possible when she was in search of him because siths where still present on the planet at that time, and expecially with a DS Revan), to go to Mlachor V, to become a sith (learn the code the teachings and so on), to become the master of the academy, to learn more advanced sith knowledge, draining technique included, to teach to Sion and Nihilus....

Then she have to be betrayed, drained, she say she was their prisoner for some times, she lost the force and regained it, she got the ebon hawk and finally was able to track the exile...

It seem really too short time to me, to do all these things.

 

Also there is another bigger conflict...

She say, and the thing seem to be present in all the game, that she was questioned for her teachings and exiled by the jedis.

Now dunno if is a translation problem (as you can see english is not my first language), but if the jedi really exiled her there is a big conflict with what is said in the chronicles.

The exile maybe can be a sith exile, but it doesn't really make much sense that a sith exile his former master (generally they kill them), and even Sion when he meet her on Peragus say something like that is difficult to kill her, giving the impression that they tried to kill her, but she managed to escape.

 

 

For all these Reasons i had many troubles tring to rebuild her story using the chronicles as what really happened and why she felt.

 

Keeping the chronicles for good, i tried to place Kreia's search for Raven during the mandaloria wars, if some things seem to fit better, expecially the time necessary for all the things to happens, the Vrook statement about her death and so on, the betrayer story results weakened, as during mandalorian wars is not so clear that Revan felt to DS, the thing is still valid but is no more as strong as before.

Also even placing her search at time doesn't explain the fact that she was exiled.

 

 

 

Considering all of this i tried to build my own theory.

 

All of this is big speculations... and here some reasons for my choices.

 

I tried to keep the "betrayer path" as strong as possible, but still giving space to the hunger for knowledge that Kreia demonstrate in all the game.

 

Central point of my theory is that kreia was exiled by the council and i placed it at some point during the mandalorian wars.

 

Note that as i really can't think that the council could exile someone just because is the master of Revan, i considered that she was exiled because she was found "guilty" of something, in this case i think the jedis discovered that she felt to DS.

 

I placed it during the mandalorian wars to give her time to do all the things she had to do, and to give sense to the Vrook statement about her death in mando wars.

 

Kreia is also probably old enought to have fought in the war against Exar Kun, a war very similar to the jedi civil war we knows from KOTOR, in that war the many jedis fell to the dark side, and fought their friends and their masters.

As i think that the "betrayer path" will be very weak if she was exiled i chose to place it in this time frame, this way this fact can be the central one that lead her to DS and to make her become Darth Traya.

 

 

the theory.

(notes and explanations for my decisions)

 

 

Kreia's fall story begin back during the war against Exar Kun, she was young at that time and was shocked when someone she loved, betryed the jedis to join Exar Kun, that person so important to her could be an apprentice, maybe her first one if she was a joung master, or a "real lover", anyway a person she really loved.

(note that this is the exact same thing that happened to Atris, that started her fall due to Exile decision.)

 

The fall of a preson so near her made her feel betrayed, and many questions raised in her.

She probably asked why it happened, how a person that she thrusted could become evil and turn to dark side.

 

(This is a sort of question that can fuel a sort of hunger for knowledge, and expecially for knowledge of dark side as the jedi code can't really explain why someone turn away from it, such a direct knowledge can only come from an experience of the DS. It makes also much sense for her vision of the force as an "enslaving behing", she could have blamed te force for the fall of her love, this way the fault is of the force that shaped his destiny that way for her own goal.)

 

After the war she was corroded (?) by these doubts, she began to deeply stude the code of the jedi way but was not able to find answers at her questions, becoming an historyan she probably had access to many sith knowledge, and her that she began to study that knowledge to try to find an answer.

At this time probably she began to consider the code as not correct to explain the force, more and more that she studied the sith teaching, more and more the code was no more sufficent to her, she began to mature a bigger vision of the force, and all of this was gradually reflected by her teachings.

 

(note that this is, even for a bit different reasons, the same path that Atris is following, Atris probably is doing that for knowledge, but also for a sort of inferiority feeling about the Exile.

She says that the Exile made her not sure that his disobedience of the council was wrong, and also Kreia at the end says the Atris saw him as a sort of hero.

This makes me think that the vehemence she demonstrate against the sith is due to her will to become like the Exile (and with an Exile male, to be worth him).

So even if the reasons are different here that both the first reason (betrayal) is the same for both of them, and this generated a hunger for knowledge, and expecially for sith one.

This way the "betrayer path" is fully respected and very strong.)

 

At the beginning of the mandalorian war Kreia teachings where questioned because of Revan. Even if at that time she was still a jedi as we said above the seeds of corruptions where alredy inside her, and to some decree reflected to her teachings.

I think she was not aware of that and she was still sure to be a real jedi.

(she also says something like to fall and to admit it to Atris and this can reflect that stance)

The council see the corruption inside her and here that she is exiled.

 

This is the moment she begin to consciously embrace the dark side, she travel on many dark side planets to complete her knowledge, exploring Korriban (probably desert at that time) and reaching even Malachor V.

 

I prefer to make her reach Malachor before the battle between mandalorians and jedis, to give her a direct knowledge of the exile, of the facts that happened there (Revan reasons) and to motivate the statement that jedis tought her died during mandalorian wars, but is not really necessary.

But is also possibe that she could have travelled in some dark worlds making jedis lose her traks, so thinking she is dead, and she could have reached Malachor after the battle, completing her fall with his corruption energies.

 

After that she became the leader of Tryanus academy, and have all the time to do all the things we know of her past.

 

As said above this theory/path explain quite well her feelings about the force and the destiny, and i think most of the statements we meet in the game are respected.

 

For her feelings about Revan even in this scenario Revan was very important to her, he is her best apprentice, and the fact tht he lead the war can be a bad blow to her that can see happening again the things during the Exar Kun's war.

(as said she have not yet admitted her fall at that time)

Also is obious that is not Revan's betray the central reason of her fall as implied in the chronicles, and this point result a bit weakened compared to what happens there. (still an important thing but no more central)

 

 

Here how i guessed her past...

As said the official chronicles have not satisfied me and some important things seem to conflict.

 

I'm curious to hears the opinion about Kreia's story, expecially by other people that really like her, and how they see her past story. To try also to build a consistent theory about what happened to her.

 

It will be also interesting to know how devs envisioned her and her past " even if probably i'm asking for too much eheh

[Zilod]

ok finished, sorry if i had to break the post but i had to go away so was forced to stop and to post it unfinished, for people interested in this topic that alredy read the main post i suggest to read the second part of it that was missing.

[DarthNihilus]

Ah..my mortal enemy strikes again

And yes I WILL reply on that topic about Kreia`s plan...

 

Back to subject..let`s analyze the facts as I don`t trust Chronicles too much

 

1.Kreia is originally a Jedi and known to her flawed teaching..or perhaps HER teachings were TRUTH and Jedi Code and way was flawed

2.All her padawans other die on Malachor or go to Sith

3.Her last padawan/apprentice was Revan

4.Revan goes from Korriban to Malachor 5 based on the last memory recover he had...

5.From Malachor 5 Revan goes to Outer-Rim to meet/search the "True Sith"

6.Kreia goes to Malachor 5 to retrace Revan`s path (hypotetically - still best situation from logic point of view)

7.She gets corrupted by MAlachor`s evil(Academy was built on the planet that had been known for connections with ancient Sith Masters/teaching/ full of Dark Side)

8.She gets to train Sion and Nihilus

9.She is stripped of her power/Force(?)

10.She begins her search for Revan

 

Hyphotetisis:

 

11.She finds the Ebon Hawk and NOT Revan

12.She meets Sith Forces who open fire(given that Ebon Hawk is a "Smuggler Vessel class" which has the speed as his strong point and not the hull we can assume the Force wasn`t much..prolly a armed freighter or a Destroyer at best)

13.we still don`t know HOW The Exile ends up on The Ebon Hawk tho` from his room on the Harbinger

 

____________

 

So...

 

1.She turns to the Dark Side in an effort to know thhe OTHER teachings/ways

2.She acheives mastery e.g. Sith Lord

3.Probably right after the Mandalorian Wars

4.Revan leaves she is challenged in the Sith Way by Nihilus and Sion who allies with Nihilus agaist the common threat: Kreia,the Sith LOrd

5.She learns betrayal and goes to look for the Last known Jedi(the former General at Malachor 5)

 

Technically her fall begun when she questioned for the first time the Jedi Code and started in her search for the knowledge

Practically maybe she was right and THE JEDI CODE was flawed

More or less her path to the Dark Side was set and was a matter of time until she gone from Jedi Master to Sith Lord(she WAS Master since she had padawans and acknowledged by other Masters)

She never tried to search Revan because in her current state she would`ve been a sure target for anyone since she knew ONLY to rely on the Force NOT to survive without it

So she seeks revenge hence look for Exile

And I wrote enough..will writre more after your reply

[Zilod]

Ah..my mortal enemy strikes again

 

eheheh

 

ehy i alredy changed my portrait from Nihilus to Kreia, what are you awaiting? i see you are very interested in her

 

read the second part of my first post, there is my theory and some reasons/considerations too

[DarthNihilus]

Mainly you are right however there can be a different approach

 

She tried to explain to herself the Jedi Code and since she was Jedi Librarian she had access to many sources. At a point she found the Jedi Code(hence the very thing that tries to explain the Force) incomplete or not accurate. She goes and tell the Council that the Code and implied the teaching that it brings is flawed(also we may have a reason why so many Jedis gone to wars against Council`s will AND so many joing Sith).

Jedi Council as we know them arrogant(since they believe they have the ULTIMATE wisdom) and so overconfident(since they punished the Exile and/or others "in absentia" as they did to Revan and Malak) casted Kreia out;

SIDENOTE: arrogance,over-confidency, strong-minded(as they said Bastila was in kotor1) are themselves the path to The Dark Side and will be debated shortly

 

Kreia after the decision had little to do and hence she joined the Sith and followed the Sith Way.

However,Jedi and Sith are more like White and Black..Jedis proclaim peace of mind while Sith USES the mind`s passions(not too good at explaing but I`m sure you all know what I`m saying - Peace-Knowledge-Serenity-Harmony-Force VS. Passion-Strenght-Power-Victory-Chains Broken).

 

In my oppinion Kreia is looking for the ultimate Code of the Force which is neither Jedi`s not Sith`s Code...it`s somewhere in between and based on what and how any believes/feels NOT some stiff lines which are to be followed line by line

 

She had Revan as apprentice(I believe she was his first master and last).

Revan`s way and her`s are one in a larger way ... Revan was looking for the same thing..ULTIMATE understanding of the Force.

 

Also I believe she was neither LS or DS EVER...she kept RIGHT at the middle because I live with the impression that the first motive for her joing the Jedis was to UNDERSTAND teh Force and quickly realised that Jedis don`t have the Code to explain it or the means to since they are too arrogant to. Also as Sith Lord she looked to SEE the Force through Sith`s eyes...and I believe even then she was nothing more Dark than she was light(possible reason why she was defeated so easily by Nihilus who at least was dedicated to DS?)

 

Once she loses connection to the Force she starts looking for the Exile who has the power to become the GREATEST of the post-Malachor Force users(because of his decision) and make him what she never was.

 

Her past is a big "what if" in a way. She is tormented by her past and CANNOT set it aside

That`s why she makes in such a way that Exile`s past is set aside/resolved:

1.The Council that exiled him for HIS choice and because THEY believed it was wrong when ALL their champions(Revan,Malak,Exile,Bastila(Battle Meditation - hint)) believed was RIGHT

2.Atris which loved him and a DS user now(she never had any padawan - possibly because she was too scared that her`s will become fallen Jedi/Sith?)

3.Nihilus and Sion because they were CREATED at Malachor 5 by BAo-Dur`s exploding thingie and General`s order

4.KREIA because she was Revan`s master and Revan lead the Malachor fight(lead=lead to/his DECISION thus CHOICE made Malachor 5 happen in the first place)

 

So Kreia NEVER had a clear mind..she always searched for that illusive PERFECT Code which eventually led to the Dark Side or lost way. She NEEDS a Champion.. one that would UNDERSTAND the Force(no better one than one who cut himself from it and managed to survive) and one who can make the right CHOICE(since she teached you the RIGHT way to make a CHOICE without disrupting the Force).

We can safely assume(don`t even dare to contradict me here Zilod that she feels the Force the Nihilus way since her Force was stripped from her thus she must die if balance is to be reestablished).

 

Based on above I will make a diagram of possible plausible events:

1.Kreia is tormented by questions about the Force even from early times

2.She joins the Jedis in search to understand it

3.She sees the attrocities that the Force can do and the Jedis fall more often than they should from the Code`s point of view

4.She begins to question the Code as Librarian - path to the Dark Side as the Jedis say

5.She is judged and probably exiled

6.She joins the Sith by lack of choice

7.She is stripped by her Power

 

Actually what she does with Atris(triggering the Dark Side in her through Handmaiden`s "betrayal") can be generalised on teh Jedi Masters because they are at least arrogant and that is dark side feeling thus ALL Jedis are flawed..thus the very TEACHING is wrong. There is no white or black..there is grey and the truth is neither Jedi nor Sith... Revan saw that and he left in search for it...Exile is Kreia`s Champion in search for it as well..she knows it and she`s willing to commit the greatest sacrifice of all to teach a BALANCE BRINGER

 

My 2 cents..I`ve been erratic to the end I know...lucky for me Zilod will underline that and I`ll be back on track

Also Zilod..consider it as response to the other thread please..I can`t write one equally long there

[Topaz Quasar]

Umm....uhhh.....damn.....

[Hurvilo]

Umm....uhhh.....damn.....    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed.

 

Pretty intresting speculations, however I didn't read all of it. My head started to hurt 3/4 through.

[DarthNihilus]

Ah c`mon... can`t have a RPG that is all hack `n slash and no thinkin` isn`t it?

We have 2 doctrines/dogmas/ideas..Jedi and Sith

 

What was questioned was speculation about Kreia`s past(I couldn`t argue but to explain the reasons as well...)

Also there is a thread about Kreia`s goal as well

 

We can`t name us SW fans or KoToR fans if we don`t debate or at least question the why`s and if`s...

[Zilod]

DarthNihilus

I must admit that the first time i played my vision was very similar to your and i tought about her fall just because the hunger for knowledge.

 

I had really underestimated the "path of betrayal" but, after i was pointed to the chronicles and played again the game, i really noticed that it is very central to the story who is generally better shaped keeping it in high account.

 

note that i still think that the "ultimate wisdom" research is still very important both for Kreia and even for Atris paths, at least to a degree.

But i don't think that Kreia is "confused", i see her very focused and i had the impression that she really know what she is speaking about, i really think she got a sort of ultimate knowledge of the force.

I think too that when the Exilee meet her, and when she was on Malachor, she was no more a true sith, and that probably she was never a real one, this could also be why Nihilus and Sion betrayed her.

 

 

Based on above I will make a diagram of possible plausible events:

1.Kreia is tormented by questions about the Force even from early times

2.She joins the Jedis in search to understand it

 

This can't be possible, jedis are chosen, they don't apply, as every jedi she was taken when she was just a kid.

 

little side note.

I don't think that Nihilus defeated her for his superiority, even in the cutscene i had the impression that Kreia was way stronger than Sion and Nihilus put togather. I really think they won just because at that time Kreia was not yet a hole in the force so was possible to drain her, and there are no defence against that power.

 

For the other part, if you can copy cut to the other post... i will prefer to not mix the 2 if possible, i know they are very related, but i fear that putting them togather will generate a lot of confusion and will be more difficult to focus on the debate.

[DarthNihilus]

NO mix no edit..fresh reply on the other thingie

[Njall]

Hi all.

New to the forum, I think I'll add my own (cheap) speculation to the mix...

Ok, maybe it's way too cheap, but...

considering that:

 

1)The handmaiden seems to be the only jedi-wannabe NPC that she cares about.

2)We know Kreia was exiled by the jedi, and is supposed to have been Revan's master.

3)She was sick of the control the Force had over people. Thus, she has probably suffered some kind of loss.

4)At any given time, no more than 2 sith (a master and his apprentice) can be recognized as such.

5)The Jedi Masters say she was supposed to have died during the mandaloreans wars.

 

We know that Nihilus and Sion deposed her, so she wasn't probably a sith when Revan and Malak turned DS. I strongly doubt Revan had any master AFTER turning DS, so she must have taught him when he was still a jedi.

Now, during the game are mentioned some jedi that taught Revan. IIRC, these include Vrook, Vandar and Arren Kae.

 

Of Arren Kae, we know that she is handmaiden's mother, that she was exiled due to her realtionship with Yusanis, and followed Revan when he left to fight for the republic, dying there. IIRC, Yusanis died there as well.

Kreia seems to be the only one who knows anything about Arren Kae AT ALL. Not even the Exile, who should have known her, having fought alongside her ( I doubt a former jedi master would have passed unnoticed in the ranks of the runaway jedi... ) seems to remember anything about her.

When you talk to Kreia, and ask her why no jedi seems to notice her, she explains she's able to hide her presence when she doesn't want to be noticed.

 

Now, to summarize: Arren Kae, a Jedi master, falls in love with Yusanis, and gives birth to Brianna. She is exiled, and follows her former student ( Revan ) when he decides to go to war despite the council's orders. After she's lost everything, her rank, her lover, and, probably, her faith in the jedi code, she begins to walk a grey path: she feels the need to prove the jedi council that they are wrong, that the jedi code ( that exiled her) is wrong, and by "wrong" I mean "wrong" on everything, including the fact that one must live in harmony with the force, and that she was right, that if they had let her have her way, things could have been better ( Kreia herself talks the Exile along these lines if you kill the jedi masters at dantooine, or if you experience an interesting bug ( ) that occurrs when you are LS and leave her out of the party when you confront the jedi masters...). So, she begins studying the ways of the sith, as she says, not because she thinks that's the "right way" to live the force, but because, as does Atris later, she wants to fully understand the Force if she wants to confront the jedi council (Kreia says they walked the same path...) . When you talk to her, and she suggests that you train the Handmaiden in the ways of the force, she'll say something like "the jedi were there before the sith, and the force was there long before the jedi", implying that, to her, the force is neither inherently "good" nor "evil".

Her life was, anyway, really conditioned by the force, and she was sick of it. If one believes that the force is what determines his destiny, and he's not fond of his life, I guess he can decide to destroy it.

This is, IMO, what happens to Arren Kae/Kreia.

When she learns of the exile, she has her mean to show the council that they are wrong ( since the exile severed his connection to the force, and yet lives ), and "loves" him, as he represents, and has, what she's been denied: the hope of a life without from the force.

Oh, well, just my two cents anyway

[Mondo]

4)At any given time, no more than 2 sith (a master and his apprentice) can be recognized as such.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting thread you guys got going on here.

 

This rule doesn't apply to Kotor, according to other posters on this board, the 2 sith lords doesn't come into effect until 2000 years after Kotor

[Njall]

4)At any given time, no more than 2 sith (a master and his apprentice) can be recognized as such.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting thread you guys got going on here.

 

This rule doesn't apply to Kotor, according to other posters on this board, the 2 sith lords doesn't come into effect until 2000 years after Kotor

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're right, my bad...

If so, I'll have to ask, though, why was Malak forced to be Revan's apprentice in Kotor 1?

[Mihail]

Pretty much from what I gathered from the game itself, is that shes not really apart of the "dark side" it seems to me shes see the force as the reason for death in the galaxy, considering at exar kun, malak, raven, sion and whoever that other guy is which because of lucas arts is never explain who he is... no back story anyway, like them and those who came before have cost the lives of millions, billions or even trillions and zillions of deaths, and see thinks of the force is removed, that infact the corruption from the dark side would no longer be there, but that's simply my take on it, theres quite alot of plot holes because of the lack of time placed into the story..... damn you Lucas Arts.

[DesertHawk]

The exile is taken to the medbay, drugged by HK-50, dragged to a cargo hold, and then freed by Kreia, possibly with the help of T3-M4 who has also been looking for the exile at the request of Revan because Revan trusts the exile because the exile is one of the brilliant tacticians of the era, and quite possibly the only one who can lead the troops against the True Sith Empire. Kreia's fall has to do with helping the exile discover her potential and making the exile whole once more so she will no longer be troubled by her past. Of course, Kreia charges the Jedi Council in blood for what they did to her, something that she gets out of helping the exile be strong and a killer once more.

 

Hooray.

[Yminale]

Kreia is just a tired old woman that is disillusioned by the Light and the Dark side of the force. She said in the end that the Force has a "will" and seems to apply that she herself no longer wants to be it's puppet. I think her disillusionment began before she was stripped of her power because she created Darth Nihilious who if left unchecked would "kill" the force. In fact creating Darth Nihillious maybe the cause of her downfall. Her attraction to the Exile is pretty obvious. A person completely surviving without the Force, completely free from it's will is something she always dreamed about but thought impossible. Maybe that's why she's so disappointed with you in the end, because fear drove the Exile to sever his link with the force and it was not a concious act.

[Zilod]

I mostly agree with what you say, but i don't think that is really Kreia that created Nihilus.

 

Consider that the technique Nihilus have mastered can't be taught and can be learnt only by the instinct and suffering the effects.

Also Kreia tells to the Exile that was him to teach to the siths to estabilish links to drain force, for this reason i'm more inclined to see the Exile as the Nihilus creator directly (probably draining him in some way) or indirectly by Malachor V (even if in this case even the sith from KOTOR1 should have this technique, as most of them where converted at Malachor).

[nightmaresofsorrow]

I mostly agree with what you say, but i don't think that is really Kreia that created Nihilus.

 

Consider that the technique Nihilus have mastered can't be taught and can be learnt only by the instinct and suffering the effects.

Also Kreia tells to the Exile that was him to teach to the siths to estabilish links to drain force, for this reason i'm more inclined to see the Exile as the Nihilus creator directly (probably draining him in some way) or indirectly by Malachor V (even if in this case even the sith from KOTOR1 should have this technique, as most of them where converted at Malachor).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm also pretty sure that it was the exile and not kreia who created nihilus. I can't remember when but i'm pretty sure it was said or strongly implyied that you created nihilus and the technique of striking through the force.

[Hudson]

Woo this convo is getting interesting tell me more theories !!!!

[Darth Sirius]

I always thought Kreia was stripped of the force by the other two sith lords Sion and Nihilus, that was the betrayal that we spoke to Sion about, and when he was beating the s**t out of her in the cutscene. I'm probably wrong but that was just my natural take on the events I saw.

And wasnt Kreia looking to bring an end to the force? The Exile could do it, thats why she idolised him so? Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[bob_the_kitty_hunter]

I more or less agree with Darth Sirius.

 

Kreia was at one point, a *MIRALUKAN* (possible, since she too has Force Sight, and has no eyes, but since neither Atton nor Visas comment on that, it might not be true) Jedi whose teaching always ended in "failure," or so the Council would see it as. She figures out early on about the True Sith, and trains Revan as an enemy against it. Revan fails, and returns to Kreia for a while, and goes on his own to the Outer Rim. Kreia in the meantime finds Malachor V, is consumed by the dark energies and changed into a Sith Lord. She brings together special Sith soldiers that grow stronger VS people with a deeper connection to the force. That was her weapon against the True Sith. However, when Nihilus arrived, and I say that Nihilus was created from the Exile's force that was torn from him, Sion, Kreia's apprentice, who was always second in her mind, sees that he is the stronger and bows to him instead. Nihilus absorbs her force powers and dethrones her, sending Kreia to waste.

 

Kreia later comes across the Ebon Hawk, right before it becomes heavily damaged. HK-50 apparently has the Exile and drugs and drags him around. Kreia saves the Exile, puts him in the med bay, and locks up HK-50. Some blast hits the ship, Kreia falls unconcious, T3 activates and saves the ship. As time passes, Kreia develops a link with the Exile, to leech off him and regain her powers. Time passes, Kreia trains the Exile as a weapon against the True Sith, as she sees the Death of the Force through him, and killing the force would end the Sith's threat to the galaxy. The Exile fails in her eyes eventually, and she instead uses him to lure out Nihilus and Sion. The Exile kills Nihilus, so Kreia can retake her place at the academy, while setting up Atris as a test. The Exile comes in, kills Kreia and stuff, who sees that the Exile has surpassed her and rejoices, knowing that the Exile will eventually defeat the True Sith, or aid in their defeat. Then she dies.

[earthno3]

has anyone wondered y kreia got the ebon hawk first with t3 on board.

Did kreia set it up just to make sure that the exile was simply ready to assist revan and get revenge in doing so. as if u have seen t3 recording of bastila if playing ls male revan. the rest of the information on t3 was erased was it by revan or kreia to make sure bastila didn't come to help him until the republic was ready to assist. as she says come back when help is required and she will assist.

[bob_the_kitty_hunter]

I'm quite sure that Kreia didn't even notice T3 when she came aboard, because by the looks of it, T3 was deactivated the entire time till the start of the Prologue. How she got on it, I don't know.

[Baneblade]

This thread is redundant...

 

Kreia's history/storyline is full of holes in KotOR II (as is the storyline of KotOR II itself) .

 

Let's face it the game was horrible 55/100 max.

[Zilod]

I more or less agree with Darth Sirius.

 

Kreia was at one point, a *MIRALUKAN* (possible, since she too has Force Sight, and has no eyes, but since neither Atton nor Visas comment on that, it might not be true) Jedi whose teaching always ended in "failure," or so the Council would see it as. She figures out early on about the True Sith, and trains Revan as an enemy against it. Revan fails, and returns to Kreia for a while, and goes on his own to the Outer Rim. Kreia in the meantime finds Malachor V, is consumed by the dark energies and changed into a Sith Lord. She brings together special Sith soldiers that grow stronger VS people with a deeper connection to the force. That was her weapon against the True Sith. However, when Nihilus arrived, and I say that Nihilus was created from the Exile's force that was torn from him, Sion, Kreia's apprentice, who was always second in her mind, sees that he is the stronger and bows to him instead. Nihilus absorbs her force powers and dethrones her, sending Kreia to waste.

 

Kreia later comes across the Ebon Hawk, right before it becomes heavily damaged. HK-50 apparently has the Exile and drugs and drags him around. Kreia saves the Exile, puts him in the med bay, and locks up HK-50. Some blast hits the ship, Kreia falls unconcious, T3 activates and saves the ship. As time passes, Kreia develops a link with the Exile, to leech off him and regain her powers. Time passes, Kreia trains the Exile as a weapon against the True Sith, as she sees the Death of the Force through him, and killing the force would end the Sith's threat to the galaxy. The Exile fails in her eyes eventually, and she instead uses him to lure out Nihilus and Sion. The Exile kills Nihilus, so Kreia can retake her place at the academy, while setting up Atris as a test. The Exile comes in, kills Kreia and stuff, who sees that the Exile has surpassed her and rejoices, knowing that the Exile will eventually defeat the True Sith, or aid in their defeat. Then she dies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think Kreia drained the exile, the exile is a hole in the force and can't be drained with that power (as darth Nihilus will discover later), also is Kreia that makes the Exile feel the force, she says it both at the beginning (something like i can make you feel the force again trought me) and in the end (was a mistake to make you feel the force again).

 

I also don't agree that the Exile is a weapon against the true sith... the Exile is much more in the first instance, is a way of life and an example to others.

In the end Kreia herself gives to the exile 3 choices and is Obsidian ehm the Exile that chose to go to help Revan.

 

About the past i'm more inclined to think that Kreia was aware of T3, the droid went back from the unknow space with the Ebon Hawk, probably to find someone to help Revan.

We can say that is T3 who own the ebon hawk, so i really don't think that Kreia was not aware of it.

 

My supposition here is that T3 knew about Kreia and searched for her.