Open Request to Obsidian

[Mosaic]

Dear Obsidian,

 

You recently released Knight of the Old Republic 2 on the PC. This lucas arts game is both fun and enjoyable. However, in light of ample evidence that the game does not have everything in that you wished, or that somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out? Why was this game released to early? I will not conjecture that some company forced you to do it, as that would be without evidence in my possession to do so. However, all I ask is that you publicly aplogize for the game that is not complete and/or at the very least tell us why it had to be uncompleted and who is to blame if anyone.

 

Also, I would like to know is there any way we can stop this from happening in the future? I think it was fairly obvious with the interest and popularity of the KotoR franchise that this game would be a hit, why was it necessary to release it unfinished?

 

Again, I thank you for the enjoyable game and I am not angry, just perplexed as to why this happened. Thank you and Good Day.

 

 

EDIT:I would also like to know why the game appears to have not or very little bug tested. There are game stopping bugs that should not be in the game, especially considering this is the same or near the same engine as the first kotor.

[Laozi]

Good luck with this

[Mosaic]

I'm not saying they have to get on there hands and knees or anything. I just want to know why? And can this somehow be stopped from happening in the future? Because honestly, this game has so much more that could have been better. It could have been a instant classic game, it could have been so much better.

[Lifthransir Bane]

Obsidian answers to Lucasarts whose only directive from Lucas is to make profitable games. Not to grow. Not to push the envelope. Not to have great brand-recognition. Lucasarts is not like Lucasfilm in terms of furthering the respective media.

 

If the number crunchers at Lucasarts say an unfinished game released in December (or February) will move more units than a polished one released in August, then that's what will be done.

 

Quit blaming Obsidian. Bitch at Lucasarts if you feel cheated.

 

I, myself, do not.

[DarthPanda]

Unfortunately I doubt it's possible that we, as gamers, can ever prevent a game from coming out before it's due. Typically release dates are set to coincide with holidays when the average consumer is more likely to spend more.

 

I can't think of any other holidays with large shopping crowds during the rest of the year, but games within the October-February range will most likely be shifted around to catch those crowds. Sometimes for the best and, as we are sadly experiencing, for the worst.

[Mosaic]

Obsidian answers to Lucasarts whose only directive from Lucas is to make profitable games. Not to grow. Not to push the envelope. Not to have great brand-recognition. Lucasarts is not like Lucasfilm in terms of furthering the respective media.

 

If the number crunchers at Lucasarts say an unfinished game released in December (or February) will move more units than a polished one released in August, then that's what will be done.

 

Quit blaming Obsidian. Bitch at Lucasarts if you feel cheated.

 

I, myself, do not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you have evidence of this? I wasn't "bitching" though. I was voicing a concern as a customer of there products, as I said in the first post I am not angry with them. But you believe lucasarts caused this game to be unfinished?

 

Well, if that is so then the number crunchers you speak of shouldn't be allowed to make those sort of decisions, if the game isn't done, it isn't done. Period. I will however e-mail lucas arts about this. Again, I'm not angry and I'm not "bitching". I just want to know why and how this can be stopped.

[anakins revenge]

there was really nothing we could do or can do now, except hope they make a finished version for xbox

i gotta say the comp ppl who bought it kinda deserved extra content, they had to wait longer. im still a tad pissed that they get extra stuff that shoulda been in the game but some tard at LA never spoke up to Gl about this ****

[DarthPanda]

I can only see a handful of reasons why a game would come out early:

 

1) the developers finished ahead of time and the publisher agreed it's good to go.

2) the publisher decides that it would make more money selling in a holiday crowd and tweaks the timetable a bit to make it so.

3) the publisher decides that it has lost too much money into the development and wants to recoup some of its losses by forcing the game out.

4) one or both of the parties were taking crack cocaine.

 

Considering that OE had to cut out so much, there was little to no QA testing, and the game hadn't been in development for too long *coughDaikatanacough*, I'm favoring the second option.

 

Although option four is also entirely possible

[Lifthransir Bane]

Obsidian answers to Lucasarts whose only directive from Lucas is to make profitable games. Not to grow. Not to push the envelope. Not to have great brand-recognition. Lucasarts is not like Lucasfilm in terms of furthering the respective media.

 

If the number crunchers at Lucasarts say an unfinished game released in December (or February) will move more units than a polished one released in August, then that's what will be done.

 

Quit blaming Obsidian. Bitch at Lucasarts if you feel cheated.

 

I, myself, do not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you have evidence of this? I wasn't "bitching" though. I was voicing a concern as a customer of there products, as I said in the first post I am not angry with them. But you believe lucasarts caused this game to be unfinished?

 

Well, if that is so then the number crunchers you speak of shouldn't be allowed to make those sort of decisions, if the game isn't done, it isn't done. Period. I will however e-mail lucas arts about this. Again, I'm not angry and I'm not "bitching". I just want to know why and how this can be stopped.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry if it read like I snapped at you, but I find it unfair when Obsidian is criticized for not doing Beta testing (which was LA's job according to the game manual) and for releasing (again LA decision) a buggy game based on a release date instead of completion. It's not just you that's doing it, so I apologize.

 

Anytime a big title is pushed out to fit a date it tends to be buggy. Remember in Gran Turismo 2 when you'd load a save game and half the cars in your garage would be inexplicably missing? Released before it was ready to fit a date. Gran Turismo 3 was delayed for like a year and a half, but I don't remember ever having a problem with it. Fable was pushed back forever, and while there was content removed, and there are a few bugs, it certainly never crashed or slowed down on me.

 

Games are always released on either release dates or on completion. If Obsidian was setting its own release date, then they could expect to take the blame. If Obsidian was responsible for declaring it fit to ship, they should be held accountable. But in both cases there was a parent company with veto power and ultimate authority over the project.

[Mosaic]

I just don't understand why we as consumers put up with this sort of unfinished work! I don't mean to act all uppity here, but honestly.. what would happen if any other company released a product that wasn't finished? A car without seats? A stove with no knobs? It's fairly silly and as some of you have posted, it seems like these people are just pushing these things out expecting them to make more money no matter if there done or not.

 

But a good game, A really good completed game shouldn't have to come out at a certain time to make lots of money. Look at some of the best games, Almost anything made by blizzard, MYST, Sims, GTA, HL2, FF, etc etc. To quote a movie "If you build it, they will come". There's no need to build a half assed game. I don't know the release dates on those games, but I think no matter when they came out they would be popular.

 

*sigh* It just makes me angry, especially doing this to a franchise that so many of us love. We as consumers shouldn't put up with this sort of grabage. NOT saying it's Obsidians fault, or even Lucasarts, just that it's wrong no matter how you look at it or who does it.

[Legat]

I would personally rather have an answer to the question why this game perfoms so horrendoulsy.

 

I cannot continue the game past telos becaus of a 100% repetetive crash. I cannot play a game I paid for.

Considering that the game is made on a tried and trusted (and outdated, for that matter) engine, and considering that those issues were common in the first game too, it is inaceptable that the game is performing so bad.

 

I do not complain about the game itself! what I've seen so far is meeting my expectations, though I think the game is badly balanced (too easy)

 

I am merely talking about the bad framerates, lags, modelglitches, bugs and crashes.

Also, they could at least have made high resolution versions of the cutscenes.

[Mosaic]

You are also quite right legat, that sort of bad bug testing shouldn't be allowed either. Stuff that competely stops the games for some of you ( I only had bad slow downs) is just unaccapetable. Especially when the engine is as you said, tried and tested.

 

I'm not sure where these bad company practices are coming from? Lucasarts? Obsidian? Or just plain accdients? But this sort of game shouldn't be released prematurely. No matter what.

[Lifthransir Bane]

From Lucasarts' perspective, forcing Kotor2 out before a holiday ships more units, making them more money. If it's buggy, that won't hurt holiday sales. If people get angry and threaten to not buy the next one, LA can just blame obsidian for poor programming and assuage fears by switching to a new developer.

 

But even still, Lucas Arts has put out much worse games than this one. Is clone wars even a game? Battlefront is fun until you realize that you spent more time in Kotor2's Peragus mining station than you did unlocking every feature of battlefront.

 

As it is, I am somewhat satisfied with Kotor2. Moreso because I am impressed from a writing standpoint at where Avellone was going with this thing. I only wish that Lucasarts would have given the artists at obsidian more time to do what they wanted.

[Mosaic]

Oh sure, I loved the game. I really enjoyed it, never said I didn't. It was good, just a real shame that stuff was left out and no company seems to care if they release a half unfinished game or not.

 

But yes, a good game but could have been much better and made MORE money for the companies who made it.

[NeverwinterKnight]

Dear Obsidian,

 

You recently released Knight of the Old Republic 2 on the PC. This lucas arts game is both fun and enjoyable. However, in light of ample evidence that the game does not have everything in that you wished, or that somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that  clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out? Why was this game released to early? I will not conjecture that some company forced you to do it, as that would be without evidence in my possession to do so. However, all I ask is that you publicly aplogize for the game that is not complete and/or at the very least tell us why it had to be uncompleted and who is to blame if anyone.

 

Also, I would like to know is there any way we can stop this from happening in the future? I think it was fairly obvious with the interest and popularity of the KotoR franchise that this game would be a hit, why was it necessary to release it unfinished?

 

Again, I thank you for the enjoyable game and I am not angry, just perplexed as to why this happened. Thank you and Good Day.

 

 

EDIT:I would also like to know why the game appears to have not or very little bug tested. There are game stopping bugs that should not be in the game, especially considering this is the same or near the same engine as the first kotor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i hope you copy and pasted this on the lucasarts forums as well, since they have more say in whether a patch will be made, and how long or rushed the product was.

[Lifthransir Bane]

Although, maybe I'm missing something.

 

I have the Xbox version and I remember all the complaining about bugs was mostly nitpicky-the only one that caused me any problems was the one where the unarmed fighting feats would erase the chance of you acquiring other feats.

 

If the PC is this much more buggy and all this chatter is not exaggeration AND obsidian seems to not have fixed anything and broken more in the two extra months they had, perhaps they do deserve some blame, but only for squandering bugfix time on the PC.

[Phosphor]

... somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that  clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In many, many games you fill find, should you choose to delve into the code, elements of content that was left out. It's simply a matter of the design of the game's story and plot development being changed as development progressed. It's not necessarily a sign of cut material due to time constraints or anything like that.

You're reading far too much into a very common occurance.

[Jedi_Master_Darkor]

... somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that  clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In many, many games you fill find, should you choose to delve into the code, elements of content that was left out. It's simply a matter of the design of the game's story and plot development being changed as development progressed. It's not necessarily a sign of cut material due to time constraints or anything like that.

You're reading far too much into a very common occurance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree.

[TentamusDarkblade]

Phosphor is dead right on that. Every game i've ever worked on ended up with erroneous code. Bits and pieces of ideas that never panned out, got re-worked, or just plain didn't fit with the rest of the project.

 

Also, it should be noted that OE does not have any full time, in-house QA. They are completely reliant on LA to provide their QA as well as any compat testing.

 

Just take a look in the back of the manual. QA was all from Lucasarts.

[Mosaic]

... somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that  clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In many, many games you fill find, should you choose to delve into the code, elements of content that was left out. It's simply a matter of the design of the game's story and plot development being changed as development progressed. It's not necessarily a sign of cut material due to time constraints or anything like that.

You're reading far too much into a very common occurance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Fair enough, but was this stuff really needed to be put in into the PC cd's? What's the point to have it installed?

 

Also, there are some fairly obivous places in the game where it looks like more could and very probably should have gone. But it just seems like this stuff should have been cleaned up before release if it didn't go in. I won't go into specfics here (because this isn't the spoiler fourm) but like I said, there are cases where more looked like it could have easily went into the game and some of it was already voice acted (IE:Korriban). Did they have these actors voice this out and then just decide to not do it because of... what? Time? Money? Or they just didn't like where it was going?

 

And the ending, it seems a lot of people feel the ending is very hollow. I do respect that game companies sometimes have junk code, but I feel there is evidence here that content was left out.

[Jitawa]

... somehow content was left out (I refer you to the post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29503 that  clearly shows sound files you released with the PC version including some from NPC's that were never in the game and including Jedi Master Vash that was found dead on Korriban where she is talking to the player) I do hereby request information as to why this happened. Knights of the old Republic is a franchise much loved and adored by both Xbox and PC players, and this treatment to our beloved universe is abhorrent to some of us.

 

So I ask and I hope that my fellow players will also speak up in asking, why? Why was this content left out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In many, many games you fill find, should you choose to delve into the code, elements of content that was left out. It's simply a matter of the design of the game's story and plot development being changed as development progressed. It's not necessarily a sign of cut material due to time constraints or anything like that.

You're reading far too much into a very common occurance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

This is true, but most games also do a better job of keeping bits of content that was cut from surfacing in the current code. The sound files aren't a big deal, since you actually have to go looking for those. The droid planet lead-in, and unfinished Mandalorian leader bit were more glaring quest mistakes.

[Azazel005]

I am afraid Mosaic, it is simply a reflection of what has come about in this industry.

 

I think many of us would have expierenced this sort of thing in one shape or form from a much awaited video game. And as you say it is genuinely something that should not be allowed to happen. However for all the money rolling into this industry there is a slew of financial collapses, both from development houses and Publishers. THe gaming market can be fickle and any development is a risk, even on a proven franchise such as this.

 

Ultimately it takes not stretch of imagination to realise the game was realised prematurely due to some sort of financial commitment. Be that lucasarts feared they would not garner enough funds if the product was not released soon or that the development house could no longer economically continue work on the game and hence forth said it was "good enough".

 

It's a sad state, and I am by no means discouraging you from asking your question and hoping to drive an answer from both companies, if we quietly accept it it is all the more likely to happen. Though I don't expect you will get an answer or an apology, which is again more of a financial/legal issue then anything else.

 

Ultimately they have my money, not much else I can say, and I don't regret my purchase only that the product itself was not fully realised and of the quality I had hoped.

 

So I lend my support to your question (however in vain it all may be) and hope that somewhere down the line all this will lead to a better more fully developed Knights of the old Republic 3.

 

Perhaps sub named "We promise this one actually works."

[AromisTallion]

Actually I would like to add a little something into this thread about the fact of the gamers complaining about how far off the game was before it was released. I noticed that alot of people were "bitching" that the game should be released sooner. I really can't say I wasn't hoping the game would come out early, but that is not my point.

 

My point is the fact of no one thinking that word may have gone up the chain from OE to LA about fans wanting the game early. From a certain point of view, you could say that LA and OE gave the fans what they wanted.

 

I am a little upset some of the cut content and bugs. But I really thought it was a good game.

[Chalnoth]

I am a little upset some of the cut content and bugs.  But I really thought it was a good game.

But it could have been the best RPG I've ever played, if only it was finished. Early in the game, I felt that if the bugs were fixed, it would have been the best RPG I've ever played. But after finishing I'd say it was decent at best.

 

If Obsidian spends the time and money to finish this game, they could turn a 3-star title into a 5-star title. But I won't hold out hope that this will happen, as they're sure to have moved on to NWN2. I just hope that they are given the freedom to finish that game (and, perhaps, think more about ways they can hold back their development fervor so that if they are forced to release too soon, they can put out a game that is actually finished, if smaller in scope than they originally desired).

[Volourn]

People seem to forget that KOTOR2 was *always* scheduled to be released between december 2004, and february 2005. Really, the schedule wasn't pushed up or down. It was released about the time it was originally scheduled for.