The curse of the Black Isle

[Drakron]

I guess...

 

Sure the development cycle was not as short as HoW, IWD2, or KOTOR2. But portions of the game felt unfinished. I listed some examples above, if you disagree then argue your point.

 

The funny thing is that what is what you feel unfinished happen to be some icons and a bug.

 

Yes they used BG icons and so what?

 

They also used the same spells effects that were in BG and a lot of other crap ... heck I guess they decided it was pointless to waste time on then and moved on to make the game unique content.

 

Everything that was unique in IWD was done, they did not used BG unique weapons icons for IWD.

 

I'll admit that I was dissapointed in the boring endless battles of IWD, I'd expected BG without the plot focusing on one main character, ie full party selection. Less disneyesque Bioware crap and a more mature BIS style, ala planescape. IWD was fine, but the overwhelming focus on combat with some uninspiring level design left it wanting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In other worlds you wanted BG 1.5.

 

Is Black Isle fault you just "guest" what the game wanted and you are disapointed because what you expected was not what you got?

 

I mean if I go buy Halo and find out its not a dating sim that means I can go complain about Halo ... of course not.

[Volourn]

"Sure the development cycle was not as short as HoW, IWD2, or KOTOR2. But portions of the game felt unfinished. I listed some examples above, if you disagree then argue your point."

 

Just because the game wasn't perfect; doesn't mean it was rushed.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

I'd expected BG without the plot focusing on one main character, ie full party selection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

...IWD was marketed as an' "ol'-fashioned Dungeon Crawl"; expecting it to be BG was a lack o' research on yer part, not a lack o' anythin' on BIS' part...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Logan]

Multiple replies here

 

Volo

"Just because the game wasn't perfect; doesn't mean it was rushed."

 

I should clarify that by "rushed" a don't just mean the time schedule. I also mean the design philosophy. Both you and Ellester claim that I point to minor bugs and that other games are buggy. It is not just the bugs, it is the feeling of a *complete* game, polished. Sure you can point to the NWN OC, but NWN has so far been an anomoly in terms of Bioware "failures". Anyway, Obsidian and others have moved away from a BG style game with slow level advancement and immersive environment for fast levels up, lots of loot, repetitive-XP raising battles and poor playtesting. Sometimes these trade-offs were caused by a short development cycle other times by design descions. In either case, I think that game quality suffers, and over-optimistic development cycles, rush jobs, are at fault.

 

Also, it is true that bugs are random, and every person has a different experience.

 

I played through BG2, NWN, and KOTOR on release, pre-patch without any game-stoppers and without any obvious problems. Maybe the numbers did not always add up, but not that I noticed.

 

I also played IWD and KOTOR2 on release, both contained serious bugs. ToEE on release, I don't need to tell you guys about it, yet I played the entire game without any game stoppers and without patch go figure, it was still a buggy PoS.

 

Ellester

"The funny thing is that what is what you feel unfinished happen to be some icons and a bug.

 

Yes they used BG icons and so what?

 

They also used the same spells effects that were in BG and a lot of other crap ... heck I guess they decided it was pointless to waste time on then and moved on to make the game unique content.

 

Everything that was unique in IWD was done, they did not used BG unique weapons icons for IWD."

 

Why do some in BG style and others in IWD style? It screwed with the game's style. Same with spell effects, it doesn't matter if they half-assed it because of design choice or time constraints. It's just not polished.

 

You know, I enjoyed IWD. But it did have it's weaknesses that were not just a matter of design choices.

 

 

Sargy

"...IWD was marketed as an' "ol'-fashioned Dungeon Crawl"; expecting it to be BG was a lack o' research on yer part, not a lack o' anythin' on BIS' part..."

 

Yeah, I was on the BIS boards during IWD's development, I knew what was going on. As I remeber you showed up sometime after that on the new BIS boards posting with some ordinary name like Mike or something, same style though -unmistakeable. I've been on the BIS boards the whole time, Bishop/Red Queen boards, and so on.

 

I knew what BIS was saying about IWD, like I said above, it was a good game, but comparatively uninspired. I don't play a whole lot of games, the games I've played I'll list below

 

BG, BG2, IWD, IWD2 (partial), PsT, KOTOR, NWN, ToEE, KOTOR2 (partial)

 

BG, BG2, PsT, and KOTOR are great games

 

IWD, KOTOR2, and NWN modules are good games

 

ToEE, IWD2, and the NWN OC are poor games.

 

I might give IWD2 the good rating but I've never found the motivation to finish it.

 

So from my perspective BIS/Obsidian made 1 great game, 2 good games, and 1 poor game while Bio made 3 great games and 1 good/poor game that sold very well. I think the design philosophy, the rush job, is a major factor.

[Amelyssan The Blackhearted]

Multiple replies here

 

Volo

"Just because the game wasn't perfect; doesn't mean it was rushed."

 

I should clarify that by "rushed" a don't just mean the time schedule. I also mean the design philosophy. Both you and Ellester claim that I point to minor bugs and that other games are buggy. It is not just the bugs, it is the feeling of a *complete* game, polished. Sure you can point to the NWN OC, but NWN has so far been an anomoly in terms of Bioware "failures". Anyway, Obsidian and others have moved away from a BG style game with slow level advancement and immersive environment for fast levels up, lots of loot, repetitive-XP raising battles and poor playtesting. Sometimes these trade-offs were caused by a short development cycle other times by design descions. In either case, I think that game quality suffers, and over-optimistic development cycles, rush jobs, are at fault.

 

Also, it is true that bugs are random, and every person has a different experience.

 

I played through BG2, NWN, and KOTOR on release, pre-patch without any game-stoppers and without any obvious problems. Maybe the numbers did not always add up, but not that I noticed.

 

I also played IWD and KOTOR2 on release, both contained serious bugs. ToEE on release, I don't need to tell you guys about it, yet I played the entire game without any game stoppers and without patch go figure, it was still a buggy PoS.

 

Ellester

"The funny thing is that what is what you feel unfinished happen to be some icons and a bug.

 

Yes they used BG icons and so what?

 

They also used the same spells effects that were in BG and a lot of other crap ... heck I guess they decided it was pointless to waste time on then and moved on to make the game unique content.

 

Everything that was unique in IWD was done, they did not used BG unique weapons icons for IWD."

 

Why do some in BG style and others in IWD style? It screwed with the game's style. Same with spell effects, it doesn't matter if they half-assed it because of design choice or time constraints. It's just not polished.

 

You know, I enjoyed IWD. But it did have it's weaknesses that were not just a matter of design choices.

 

 

Sargy

"...IWD was marketed as an' "ol'-fashioned Dungeon Crawl"; expecting it to be BG was a lack o' research on yer part, not a lack o' anythin' on BIS' part..."

 

Yeah, I was on the BIS boards during IWD's development, I knew what was going on. As I remeber you showed up sometime after that on the new BIS boards posting with some ordinary name like Mike or something, same style though -unmistakeable. I've been on the BIS boards the whole time, Bishop/Red Queen boards, and so on.

 

I knew what BIS was saying about IWD, like I said above, it was a good game, but comparatively uninspired. I don't play a whole lot of games, the games I've played I'll list below

 

BG, BG2, IWD, IWD2 (partial), PsT, KOTOR, NWN, ToEE, KOTOR2 (partial)

 

BG, BG2, PsT, and KOTOR are great games

 

IWD, KOTOR2, and NWN modules are good games

 

ToEE, IWD2, and the NWN OC are poor games.

 

I might give IWD2 the good rating but I've never found the motivation to finish it.

 

So from my perspective BIS/Obsidian made 1 great game, 2 good games, and 1 poor game while Bio made 3 great games and 1 good/poor game that sold very well. I think the design philosophy, the rush job, is a major factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

How far back are you willing to take this argument? I can name a genuine list of horrendous games that Bioware brought out before the days of BGand a rock pile of excellent games Interplay brought out.

[Volourn]

"I can name a genuine list of horrendous games that Bioware brought out before the days of BGand a rock pile of excellent games Interplay brought out."

 

WOW! You got a whole list of games that BIO released prior to BG? A genuine list at that? WOWSERS! That would be impressive to see that 1or 2 games they released prior to BG. What a tool.

[Musopticon?]

Goodie. More fighting!

 

*takes out popcorns*

[Ellester]

So from my perspective BIS/Obsidian made 1 great game, 2 good games, and 1 poor game while Bio made 3 great games and 1 good/poor game that sold very well. I think the design philosophy, the rush job, is a major factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough Logan, and I

[Volourn]

Elelster: Woah... I'm surprised you like the OC more than TOB. And, oh, just because they weren't called BIS at the time doesn't mean BIS shouldn't get resposnibility for older games made by the team that would evntually be called BIS as it was Interplay's RPG Division aka BIS that did.

 

That means BIS is responsible FO1, SK, and DTU amongst others... <>

[Ellester]

Elelster: Woah... I'm surprised you like the OC more than TOB. And, oh, just because they weren't called BIS at the time doesn't mean BIS shouldn't get resposnibility for older games made by the team that would evntually be called BIS as it was Interplay's RPG Division aka BIS that did.

 

That means BIS is responsible FO1, SK, and DTU amongst others... <>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You

[merry andrew]

Last night I started KOTOR2 in "Hard" difficulty mode,. T3 got stuck and was unable to detonate a key door. For a while I thought I was permantly stuck -until I remembered to turn the difficulty down. I guess they did not test at Hard difficulty. Hence, a rush job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So the difficulty modes affect your character's ability to move?

[Volourn]

"Btw, you don

[Aurora]

I don't have Vampire, what's at the microphone stand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was curious, too, so I looked it up. Check it out, very mature.

 

Y'know, I was willing to pretend that the Black Isle references in Arcanum were coincidential. This... yeah.

[Darque]

I don't have Vampire, what's at the microphone stand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was curious, too, so I looked it up. Check it out, very mature.

 

Y'know, I was willing to pretend that the Black Isle references in Arcanum were coincidential. This... yeah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's just sad... <_<

 

What little respect I had for Troika is quickly diminishing.

[NeverwinterKnight]

I was curious, too, so I looked it up. Check it out, very mature.

 

Y'know, I was willing to pretend that the Black Isle references in Arcanum were coincidential. This... yeah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the picture is much too dark for me to see. what was it?

[Eclecticist]

Come on guys. It's clearly a joke, BIS didn't even exist when Vampire was made.

[Aurora]

The sticker says "BIS Sucks."

 

Eclecticist - BIS existed before Vampire was made, though. And in Arcanum, there are derogatory references about a place called the "Black Isle." Just because it's a joke doesn't mean they're not jerks.

[Volourn]

And, BIS still existed when development started on Vampire.. or has it been more than 2 years since BIS' destruction? WOWSERS!

 

Still, it's obviously a pot shot against Troika big wigs' former bosses.

 

Didn't bother me though as I didn't notice it so meh.

[Amelyssan The Blackhearted]

"I can name a genuine list of horrendous games that Bioware brought out before the days of BGand a rock pile of excellent games Interplay brought out."

 

WOW! You got a whole list of games that BIO released prior to BG? A genuine list at that? WOWSERS! That would be impressive to see that 1or 2 games they released prior to BG. What a tool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You obviously never owned a Commodore 64

[Volourn]

"You obviously never owned a Commodore 64"

 

That's right. Bioware which was formed 10 years made a list of games for the Commodore 64.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

 

You obviouly have never used a Commodore 64.

[Pidesco]

"I can name a genuine list of horrendous games that Bioware brought out before the days of BGand a rock pile of excellent games Interplay brought out."

 

WOW! You got a whole list of games that BIO released prior to BG? A genuine list at that? WOWSERS! That would be impressive to see that 1or 2 games they released prior to BG. What a tool.

 

You obviously never owned a Commodore 64

 

This is one of the silliest posts i've ever seen!

 

The only game Bioware released before BG was Shattered Steel, an average mech game.

[Logan]

Last night I started KOTOR2 in "Hard" difficulty mode,. T3 got stuck and was unable to detonate a key door. For a while I thought I was permantly stuck -until I remembered to turn the difficulty down. I guess they did not test at Hard difficulty. Hence, a rush job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So the difficulty modes affect your character's ability to move?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No you dolt, in order to complete the area T3 had to detonate a door, his demolitions skill was too low in HARD difficulty mode, since I had never level-uped T3 the demolition skill was pre-set, yet too low to proceed in HARD difficulty. I was therefore stuck, could not go on. Game over -unless the difficulty level is set to NORMAL.

[Oerwinde]

"I can name a genuine list of horrendous games that Bioware brought out before the days of BGand a rock pile of excellent games Interplay brought out."

 

WOW! You got a whole list of games that BIO released prior to BG? A genuine list at that? WOWSERS! That would be impressive to see that 1or 2 games they released prior to BG. What a tool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You obviously never owned a Commodore 64

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is one of the silliest posts i've ever seen!

 

The only game Bioware released before BG was Shattered Steel, an average mech game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Must be thinking of Blizzard.

[Opus131]

I think the level advancement is way too fast, and the combat is soo easy its stupid.

 

It was the same with the original, was KOTOR 1 a rush job as well ?

[Volourn]

A. Those things have nothing tod o with rushing.

 

B. Those issues were nowhere near as bad as they are in KOTOR2.