Too much power?

[><FISH'>]

unless you have too much =P

[Epiphany]

Its like they said, if they were going to err on one side or the other, then it would be better to make it too easy. Well thats definitely what happened. I remember them saying that the first time they tested a fight with Sion that he was impossibly difficult, and I got really excited about the game. I just wonder how it went from being nearly impossible to only needing to critical strikes to kill

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or force crush... Sad really, I can't believe they err'd so greatly on the side of easy. I mean, when playtesting, did any of the QA guys pop up from the desk and tell the developers "Um, guys, this game provides no challenge what so ever."?

[Judge Hades]

When your character has so much power that the game is no fun, then you have too much power. In KotOR the game was really not a whole lot of fun, combat wise. It was downright boring because your character has so much power that none of the battles were all that interesting or challenging.

 

Completely unfun.

 

KotOR 2, from what people are saying, seems to follow the same vein of being unfun.

[jaguars4ever]

 

I want 600 posts too..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure, just keep posting on these forums for a few months. You can get 600 posts .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a race...

 

 

 

When your character has so much power that the game is no fun, then you have too much power.  In KotOR the game was really not a whole lot of fun, combat wise.  It was downright boring because your character has so much power that none of the battles were all that interesting or challenging.

 

Completely unfun.

 

KotOR 2, from what people are saying, seems to follow the same vein of being unfun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In terms of the combat facet alone, I don't think anyone can deny that,

 

No challenge = No fun.

[anakins revenge]

Maybe next time set the Difficulty Level to "Hard" and stop playing it on "Easy"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, they have a few more hit points, so I have to hit them 1-2 more times. It doesn't change the fact there is no present challenge in the game. You can't even handicap yourself with hand to hand combat. About the only thing you can do is have all your characters use blasters with no close combat feats.

 

YEAH THAT'S ROLEPLAYING!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

whut he said

[Darth Makaan]

there were lots of hard battles on hard. on easy there wasn't

[jaguars4ever]

there were lots of hard battles on hard.  on easy there wasn't

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There were a few long battles, but no really tough battles on 'difficult'.

[Laozi]

No not at all, really during the battle sequences could be won even if you just leave the game and go use the bathroom.

 

Thats what really amounts to a whole lot of suckage, your not really battling to put together the secrets of the universe and defeat the sithlords, you're basically just a taxi transporting the exile where to go, and it doesn't matter if you decide what they do or you just let the game do for you

 

The only way it could possible be difficult if you interfered with alot of incompetent decisions

[Epiphany]

there were lots of hard battles on hard.  on easy there wasn't

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There were no hard battles on hard, just like on easy. The problem is the power curve. In the beginning enemies are too easy because you're weak, but you rapidly gain power while the enemies just trudge along, slowly rising in "difficulty". Hell, by the time you leave Telos, you're so far ahead of the what you'll have to face (minus 1-2 enemies), that the challenge is gone, on any difficulty level.

[JamieKirby]

Maybe next time set the Difficulty Level to "Hard" and stop playing it on "Easy"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, they have a few more hit points, so I have to hit them 1-2 more times. It doesn't change the fact there is no present challenge in the game. You can't even handicap yourself with hand to hand combat. About the only thing you can do is have all your characters use blasters with no close combat feats.

 

YEAH THAT'S ROLEPLAYING!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Let me guess, you use all the force powers and dual sabers?

 

I only play LS since i am a goody two-shoes. lol

 

I tried Kotor I as a DS Character and i really, really felt guilty at the end.

 

So, i always play LS, The only force powers i use are the healing and buffing powers and others, when they are required to get further in the story. (which i don't think happend on Kotor I)

 

I always go by tradition when it comes to Saber combat, which means a single lightsaber with no special things. (Flurry, Power Attack etc.)

 

In my opinion, a game is meant for entertainment and to be fun, if it is challenging to the point of dying to the need to reload to try again, isn't really entertaining, more like annoying and boring.

 

But since all people are different, i suggest, instead of using force powers or any special attacks, just use a single saber playing solo where possible with no armor, no implants, no headsets, no belts or anything besides your blaster, rifle, sword, fists or saber. (which ever you prefer)

 

Because i have noticed people using dual sabers, going DS and using ALL The powers constantly and then complain it is too easy. lol It really makes me laugh.

 

Do different things to make it challenging if you NEED a game to be challenging to be fun.

[Epiphany]

Let me guess, you use all the force powers and dual sabers?

 

I use some force powers and a single saber.

 

I only play LS since i am a goody two-shoes. lol

 

I only play DS.

 

I tried Kotor I as a DS Character and i really, really felt guilty at the end.

 

I tried both KOTOR and KOTOR 2 as LS, and I felt like a dork both times, and never finished the beginning areas due to trying to be "nice".

 

So, i always play LS, The only force powers i use are the healing and buffing powers and others, when they are required to get further in the story. (which i don't think happend on Kotor I)

 

I use DS powers. No buffers.

 

I always go by tradition when it comes to Saber combat, which means a single lightsaber with no special things. (Flurry, Power Attack etc.)

 

I prefer not to handicap my character in such a way that I can't use abilities/skills that are in the game. So I always focus on one style, be in flurry, power attack or critical strike (being my favorite).

 

In my opinion, a game is meant for entertainment and to be fun, if it is challenging to the point of dying to the need to reload to try again, isn't really entertaining, more like annoying and boring.

 

True, it's to provide entertainment, but there are lots of people that don't find being unstoppable destruction to be all that fun. Which is why difficulty sliders are usually added. Sadly, even on hard, the game is still so easy it's boring.

 

But since all people are different, i suggest, instead of using force powers or any special attacks, just use a single saber playing solo where possible with no armor, no implants, no headsets, no belts or anything besides your blaster, rifle, sword, fists or saber. (which ever you prefer)

 

Ok, this reminds me of the Morrowind uber-fans trying to defend Morrowind being an easy game. They also told people to handicap themselves to the point of having a shell of a character. It was a silly idea back then, and it's just as silly for this game.

 

Because i have noticed people using dual sabers, going DS and using ALL The powers constantly and then complain it is too easy. lol It really makes me laugh.

 

Heaven forbid they use what the developers gave them to use.

 

Do different things to make it challenging if you NEED a game to be challenging to be fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

By making the rest of the game pointless?

[JamieKirby]

Let me guess, you use all the force powers and dual sabers?

 

I use some force powers and a single saber.

 

I only play LS since i am a goody two-shoes. lol

 

I only play DS.

 

I tried Kotor I as a DS Character and i really, really felt guilty at the end.

 

I tried both KOTOR and KOTOR 2 as LS, and I felt like a dork both times, and never finished the beginning areas due to trying to be "nice".

 

So, i always play LS, The only force powers i use are the healing and buffing powers and others, when they are required to get further in the story. (which i don't think happend on Kotor I)

 

I use DS powers. No buffers.

 

I always go by tradition when it comes to Saber combat, which means a single lightsaber with no special things. (Flurry, Power Attack etc.)

 

I prefer not to handicap my character in such a way that I can't use abilities/skills that are in the game. So I always focus on one style, be in flurry, power attack or critical strike (being my favorite).

 

In my opinion, a game is meant for entertainment and to be fun, if it is challenging to the point of dying to the need to reload to try again, isn't really entertaining, more like annoying and boring.

 

True, it's to provide entertainment, but there are lots of people that don't find being unstoppable destruction to be all that fun. Which is why difficulty sliders are usually added. Sadly, even on hard, the game is still so easy it's boring.

 

But since all people are different, i suggest, instead of using force powers or any special attacks, just use a single saber playing solo where possible with no armor, no implants, no headsets, no belts or anything besides your blaster, rifle, sword, fists or saber. (which ever you prefer)

 

Ok, this reminds me of the Morrowind uber-fans trying to defend Morrowind being an easy game. They also told people to handicap themselves to the point of having a shell of a character. It was a silly idea back then, and it's just as silly for this game.

 

Because i have noticed people using dual sabers, going DS and using ALL The powers constantly and then complain it is too easy. lol It really makes me laugh.

 

Heaven forbid they use what the developers gave them to use.

 

Do different things to make it challenging if you NEED a game to be challenging to be fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

By making the rest of the game pointless?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you so totally throw out what i meant. lol

 

and to the Morrowind game, i got bored of it within 5mins.....X2 - The Threat was boring, even though i normally like space games, but if you can even hold your own against a ship the same size as you is so dumb, it was basicly a trading game in space....you could only do any decent fighting, when you have made like 500k-1mil in cash, which takes a considerable amount of time and i am rather not that good at waiting, so this is why i got bored of it.

 

But lets not let this topic get into a tug-of-war.........you want the game to be challenging and if it isn't, its boring, but this is where modding comes in....mod it to make it more harder.......oh yeh, you only got it for the X-Box, which means no modding.....thats where the PC Version is better......and don't let it turn into a pc vs xbox topic either.

 

I have had alot of fun modding Kotor for the PC, seeing how hard i could make it to how easy i could make it, it is way too much fun.

 

I would suggest getting the PC Version and do some modding....assuming the Kotor_Tool will work with it. (i think it should considering its the same engine.)

[Epiphany]

oh yeh, you only got it for the X-Box, which means no modding.....thats where the PC Version is better......and don't let it turn into a pc vs xbox topic either.

 

Then why did you bring it up? Some people (myself included) have a lot more fun gaming on a console, because of our gaming setup. I'd much rather sit back on the couch, controller in hand and play a game on my widescreen TV, then sit at a desk and play it on a monitor... That's just the visual aspect of it, when I factor in surround sound quality/volume I don't even want to think about gaming on a PC.

 

I would suggest getting the PC Version

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would suggest to myself not to.

[JamieKirby]

oh yeh, you only got it for the X-Box, which means no modding.....thats where the PC Version is better......and don't let it turn into a pc vs xbox topic either.

 

Then why did you bring it up? Some people (myself included) have a lot more fun gaming on a console, because of our gaming setup. I'd much rather sit back on the couch, controller in hand and play a game on my widescreen TV, then sit at a desk and play it on a monitor... That's just the visual aspect of it, when I factor in surround sound quality/volume I don't even want to think about gaming on a PC.

 

I would suggest getting the PC Version

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would suggest to myself not to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its up to you, but IMO, you are losing out, X-Boxes to me are only useful for Beat'em Ups and Racing Games.

 

but lets end it there.

[Epiphany]

X-Boxes to me are only useful for Beat'em Ups and Racing Games.

 

You're so uninformed it's almost comical.

 

but lets end it there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good idea, because you have no idea what you're talking about regarding consoles...

[envida]

bring on the xbox vs pc flame wars

[Epiphany]

no...

[The Swedish Dark Lord III]

flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...

lame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...flame...

Edited January 29, 2005 by The Swedish Dark Lord III

[Jad'en]

Meh deliver me 3 components from the X-Box which out do my PC and i will eat my own face

 

Whats that....you cant do it?

 

Give me enough time, and i could Overclock an old 200Mghz P2 Windows 95 to better system specs than an X-Box...

 

Furthermore, give me the need for any X-Box game... and i will convert the bastard myself for the PC <_<

 

 

And last but not least... this generations consoles are only good for shooters and racing games...why? because they dont have the power to handle MODERN technology.

 

X-Box 2 is finished with development... but by the time you get it and its on the market, the technology will be dated, its the status quo of Consoles.

[Guest Darth Banooby7]

BURN !!!!!!!!! EAT **** XBOXERS EAT ****!!!!!!

[Guest Darth Banooby7]

oops . . . got a little out of control there . . . I'm sorry if anyone was offinded.

[DarthReliguim]

I was playing on Hard and this guy named Kavar just comes along and kills me in one attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

varpine prototype shield.

master energy resistance.

echani battle stims

upgrade your sabres

master speed

 

 

or...

 

force storm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I couldn't even move.He jumped over to me and I died.And I was level 36.

[jaguars4ever]

I was playing on Hard and this guy named Kavar just comes along and kills me in one attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

varpine prototype shield.

master energy resistance.

echani battle stims

upgrade your sabres

master speed

 

 

or...

 

force storm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I couldn't even move.He jumped over to me and I died.And I was level 36.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The shame.

 

 

But seriously, the last character I built finished with a defense of 50...and he was level 30. He was effectively untouchable except on natural 20's.

[Squidget]

Whenever you have a D20 game, people who intuitively create powerful builds in the system are going to have an easier time. This tends to include anyone who's had a fair amount of experience with d20.

 

Playing through with an Int-focused sentinel with low Con I actually had a very difficult time with the game, and had to use a variety of tactics to get through some battles. I also died several times on some of the boss fights - it was far from an easy game.

 

However, if you expect games to cater to people with loads of RPG and D20 experience then you are, IMHO, certain to be disappointed. Games need to appeal to the average user who doesn't know the system or how to build a character in it, and game developers prefer to err on the side of the easy than hard in these cases. If the combat is too easy because your build is powerful you can still enjoy the story, but if you can't beat the combat because your build is gimped then you can enjoy neither the future story nor the future combat.

 

Here is hoping Obsidian uses a custom ruleset for future games which allows them to avoid things like this.

[JamieKirby]

Whenever you have a D20 game, people who intuitively create powerful builds in the system are going to have an easier time.  This tends to include anyone who's had a fair amount of experience with d20.

 

Playing through with an Int-focused sentinel with low Con I actually had a very difficult time with the game, and had to use a variety of tactics to get through some battles.  I also died several times on some of the boss fights - it was far from an easy game.

 

However, if you expect games to cater to people with loads of RPG and D20 experience then you are, IMHO, certain to be disappointed.  Games need to appeal to the average user who doesn't know the system or how to build a character in it, and game developers prefer to err on the side of the easy than hard in these cases.  If the combat is too easy because your build is powerful you can still enjoy the story, but if you can't beat the combat because your build is gimped then you can enjoy neither the future story nor the future combat.

 

Here is hoping Obsidian uses a custom ruleset for future games which allows them to avoid things like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is what Modding is for, well for the PC Version, if the game is too easy, just make the Enemy NPCs have more Vitality, Defence, to hit bonus and damage bonus.

 

Its weird, when people say the game is too easy, i suggest something that should make it challenging and they say they wanna play it normally and not giving themselves a disadvantage.

 

From what people say, 'its more fun if you are fighting your way out of a disadvantage.

 

Despite this game being a RPG using the d20 ruleset, there are several games where the AI cheats like crazy to win. for example Settlers and Homeworld II.

 

Settlers 3 and 4, they have the whole map explored, so they know where you are from the start and they know where your view ends (to where you haven't explored yet)

 

Homeworld 2, spawns ships that counter your ships from the start and while they are wiping your ships out, they are building more, which means they are violating the ship type limits severely.

 

I think alot of you would agree that an AI that sticks to the rules that the player is forced to follow and still is challenging and it learns how you play and plays accordingly with a new strategy, then it would be a good AI, but we ain't there yet.

 

The point i am trying to make is that no game is fun, if you have to fight your way out of a disadvantage from the start.

 

Any of you agree?