Which is more of a true RPG?

[213374U]

I'm not so arrogant to claim my preferences are the right ones, and that's exactly what people do - they get their knickers in a knot because a particular game is marketed as an RPG when OMG it doesn't contain x therefore it's not an RPG!!!!!11 If an RPG doesn't contain x, y and z, it might mean I would enjoy it less, but it doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

Um, so then nothing is a true RPG, and at the same time, anything is? It all depends on what you consider to be an RPG or something? Come now, you can't have a discussion if every term is absolutely debatable and perfectly undefined.

 

I agree though, that there may be more variety as to what games can be considered a RPG than with any other genre, but still, some games just don't fit that description, no matter what. It doesn't mean they are worse, or I don't like them, no. But it doesn't make sense to call them what they're not.

 

For me, rather than game mechanics, it's the chance to create a new personality (which not necessarily implies creating a new character) and develop it through actions and plot choices what I consider to be the fundamental characteristic of a RPG. A game which meets this criteria I will usually consider it a RPG, and vice versa. Not a very complex criteria, yet very discriminating, you see.

[Kaftan Barlast]

todays fine and completely unconstructive comment:

 

 

I cant explain what an RPG is, but I know one when I see one.

[Darque]

My incomplete Fallout pen and paper game rules: http://fallout.diogenes-lamp.info/

 

Hey wow

 

Will you be finishing that? :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I work on it every week, so it will eventually be a lot more robust than it is. I just finished overhauling the combat system and the general die mechanics. Though the setting is Fallout and a lot of the names are Fallout, the system doesn't share much in common with SPECIAL at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

/bookmarked.

 

The setting is far more important than the SPECIAL system :D

[Darque]

I'm not so arrogant to claim my preferences are the right ones, and that's exactly what people do -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm guilty of that.

 

My preferences are the right ones... for me

[EnderAndrew]

I've played many piss-poor PC titles just as I've played good PC titles. I've played many piss-poor console titles, just as I've played good console titles.

 

Those that refuse to play one system or the other by saying that all PC titles or all console titles inherently suck are close-minded fools.

[Volourn]

Ender wins!

[Hell Kitty]

so then nothing is a true RPG[?]

 

No one can agree on a definition of a "true" RPG. I'm sure people could come up with a simple definition, but they insist on complecating matters with their own personal preferences (or sometimes, just plain nonsense

 

and at the same time, anything is?

 

Of course not. The fact that people narrow the defintion to suit their own tastes doesn't mean the definition should be broadened to include everything.

 

Actually, just was does the "more of a true RPG" in the thread title mean, anyway? I would have thought a "true" RPG is a game that can only be classified as an RPG, as opposed to a hybrid title or as having RPG elements. In that case neither game applies. Diablo is an action-RPG and GTA:SA is an action adventure with RPG elements.

[213374U]

No one can agree on a definition of a "true" RPG. I'm sure people could come up with a simple definition, but they insist on complecating matters with their own personal preferences (or sometimes, just plain nonsense

 

[...]

 

In that case neither game applies. Diablo is an action-RPG and GTA:SA is an action adventure with RPG elements.

And what exactly is the criteria you are using to define Diablo as action-RPG and by the same rule, determine what and what is not a RPG element?

 

You see, you are using some criteria, but at the same time, you say none can exist. Something's not right here.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

You see, you are using some criteria, but at the same time, you say none can exist. Something's not right here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You just broke'd the Matrix.

[Judge Hades]

Also, I'd be interested to hear your definition of "simplistic".  FFX's sphere grid immediately places its mechanics in the "not simplistic" category for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The game mechanics of the sphere grid was a tad convoluted yet fairly straight forward and simplistic once you get the gist of it. I mean, if I could figure it out fairly quickly anybody can. But I am not talking about game mechanics for the most part. I am talking of terms of story and challenge of the game.

[Langky]

I say judge games on your own personal experience or when such is not available the opinions of those who do have such experience.

 

The minute you start classifying something into a "Genre" is the minute (figuratively speaking of course) you start allowing your prejeduce dictate your judgement.(Interpret that what ever way you will)

 

Who cares if some publisher describes the game as a "Action Adventure Game with Role Playing Elements" or a "Action Roleplaying experience with adventure elements" what matters is the actual game itself does it achieve what it set out to do?

 

Im rabbling now so I better sneak off into the recesses of the forum :ph34r: ................................................................................

......

[213374U]

Who cares if some publisher describes the game as a "Action Adventure Game with Role Playing Elements" or a "Action Roleplaying experience with adventure elements" what matters is the actual game itself does it achieve what it set out to do?

I don't care how the publisher describes the game, because for the most part, they will say anything to sell more copies.

 

But to have a coherent discussion, it helps to have the terms you're using well defined.

[Judge Hades]

Okay, Fallout is a CRPG and Diablo is not. Clearly defined.

[Darque]

Traditional RPGS:

 

Fallout

Final Fantasy Whatever

Planescape Torment

Baldur's Gate X

Dragon Warrior(s)

 

Action RPGS:

 

Diablo 2

Deus Ex

Morrowind

 

Strat RPGs:

 

Disgaea

Final Fantasy Tactics

Tactics Ogre

 

Non RPGS:

 

Max Payne

Resident Evil

Most anything made by EA.

[Hell Kitty]

And what exactly is the criteria you are using to define Diablo as action-RPG and by the same rule, determine what and what is not a RPG element?

 

You see, you are using some criteria, but at the same time, you say none can exist. Something's not right here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm using the criteria the industry uses - statistics. It the game revolves around building up your character/s skills and statistics and using them to solve problems in the gameworld, then it's marketed as an RPG. If combat is the only way to solve problems then it's an action-RPG hybrid (unless it's tactical combat, tactical-RPGs tend to be referred to . If character stats and skills play only a small role then it's RPG elements. Any game where the characters skills and statistics remain static thorughout is not an RPG.

 

It's all well and good to say "a game that allows me to affect the gameworld in meaningful ways" or some such, but that's about as useful as "any game in which you play a role".

 

Personally I think we should leave genre labels up to marketing, afterall, I game doesn't become more or less enjoyable because a different word is written on the box (unless you're Hades, perhaps). Unfortunately, people will still complain that "They marketed this game as an RPG but it's not because it doesn't allow me to make a 7 character party of gnome ninjas therefore they lied I want me money back plz."

[213374U]

I see your point. However I still think it's somewhat contradictory to say that no one can agree on what a RPG is completely, and then fall back to the industry definition for it. If anything because gamers and industry agree as often as they don't...

[Hell Kitty]

I still think it's somewhat contradictory to say that no one can agree on what a RPG is completely, and then fall back to the industry definition for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really. My point is that, why can't people accept the industry definition? It works and clearly seperates the genre from other genres. Instead, when people say "This is an RPG", then tend to mean "This is what I prefer in an RPG".

[Aponez]

Traditional RPGS:

 

Fallout

Final Fantasy Whatever

Planescape Torment

Baldur's Gate X

Dragon Warrior(s)

 

Action RPGS:

 

Diablo 2

Deus Ex

Morrowind

 

Strat RPGs:

 

Disgaea

Final Fantasy Tactics

Tactics Ogre

 

Non RPGS:

 

Max Payne

Resident Evil

Most anything made by EA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

In which category would you put Grandia II and Suikoden?

 

Why isn't Arcanum in the list?

[Darque]

Because i took a small sampling of games instead of listing every game ever made which would have taken research and several pages of text?

[Aponez]

Because i took a small sampling of games instead of listing every game ever made which would have taken research and several pages of text? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ooops, sorry :">

[Darque]

[Judge Hades]

I don't count Deus Ex or Diablo as CRPGs.

[Darque]

And?

 

You've been outvoted

[213374U]

Not really. My point is that, why can't people accept the industry definition? It works and clearly seperates the genre from other genres. Instead, when people say "This is an RPG", then tend to mean "This is what I prefer in an RPG".

Um, because having a stat-driven gameplay doesn't assure it's a RPG. In fact that's the less defining aspect because all games have stats, only difference is that in some those stats are to some degree customizable. And if a game has some of that stat customization, it's automatically labeled as a RPG or RPG-whatever. Since the true PnP RPGs are so much more than that, that definition just doesn't cut it.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

My point is that, why can't people accept the industry definition?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because we're hardcore and don't take things for granted! Fight the system!!