Violence in Video Games

[Craftsman]

First I want you to download the F.E.A.R E3 walkthrough if you have not already and then watch it.

 

WARNING: This clip contains profanity, graphic violence, and bloodshed. Viewer discretion is advised. Strongly Recommend that viewer be 15 years or older.

 

From Fileplanet

 

F.E.A.R. E3 2004 Movie

 

or from gamespot

 

F.E.A.R. E3 2004 Movie

 

I could have used Doom 3 and HL2 as examples but in the meantime I'll stick with F.E.A.R.

 

 

 

Blood, blood and more blood. It seems that every fight scene can

[Lilac Benjamine]

I think Nationality has a lot to do with it.

 

In America, most people tolerate violence on extreme levels such as Grand Theft Auto, but sex and nudity are censored to hell and back.

Germany is on the other side of the spectrum. People tend not to mind sex and nudity in all forms of media, however violence is censored instead. (Look at the German version of Carmageddon 2 for a perfect example)

I'm English, which is somewhere in between. A lot of us don't mind violence or sex in media, but there are large pockets of conservative groups who do.

 

If however games ever looked exactly like the real world, asking me whether such violence it OTT, especially if I was killing virtual versions of people I know in real life, I would most definitely answer yes.

[213374U]

Difficult topic. I don't think I can clearly say yes or no. Let's see, where exactly is the limit in fictional violence? Brains as wallpaper? The smell and taste of blood? Mass murder of children? A snuff movie studio?

 

As things are right now, I don't see a problem with violence in games, it's not anywhere near real, live violence.

 

But in an industry which aims for absolute realism (and will accomplish it eventually) in its fictional products, it's only a matter of time before we have to ask ourselves if it's actually possible to tell the difference between fictional violence and the real thing.

The truth is that any sane person will probably not be able to withstand the crudeness of true murder, let alone carnage. Enjoying it is out of the question. However, in time photo-realistic violence might become an integral part of video games, and hence, a way of entertainment.

Shall this mean that anyone which actually enjoys such a product is a true psycho?

 

I think that perhaps, when making a game that is so realistic that it is actually sick to play, gaming companies will give up graphical violence, in favor of other types of simulation. The key here is, again, what is 'sick'.

[Darque]

I think violence and gorelevel needs to fit the context, in this context it fits.

[Ludozee]

Didn't this happen in England this summer? This kid had murdered another kid and the press blamed it on the game "Manhunt", which the kid turned out to play frequently?

I think violence is allowed in games, just as long as it is clearly stated on the cover of the game that it contains violent scenes.

IMO, it's ridiculous from parents, press and governement to blame violent behaviour of children on videogames. First of all: parents are responsible for what their kids play. They should make sure their children stay away from violence, and if they don't, they fail as parents IMO. Second: Stores should make sure that children who are to young for certain games can't buy violent games. The least they can do is check their age, so only adults should be able to purchase the game.

 

The governement shouldn't interfere withs these issues. It's ridiculous if a governement decides what I am allowed to play and what not. Look at Larry: Magna **** Laude for instance: Forbidden in Australia. Look at C&C Generals: Forbidden in Germany. This a kind of governement censorship which is ridiculous anno 2004 (well, 2005).

Parents should take the responsibility for what their children play, not the governement.

 

Btw: WTF? Magna C um Laude?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I don't need to see depiction of violence in a videogame. That's something that sits between the "icing in the cake" and "fluff" segments, because I'm fine with it if it's there, and fine if it's not. My gaming experience doesn't revolve around it. I enjoyed games (and gaming) without blood and gore before they got trendy, I keep enjoying them with said elemetns.

 

There's also the case of wheter it fits in a game or not, but as always that depends.

 

On the other hand, profanity is something that tends to leave me unconfortable, because I rarely seem to find a reason of why it should be used. It doesn't improve my gaming experience, and most of the times it detracts from it.

[Percival]

On the other hand, profanity is something that tends to leave me unconfortable, because I rarely seem to find a reason of why it should be used. It doesn't improve my gaming experience, and most of the times it detracts from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When used correctly, profanity adds to the game, see Vampire Bloodlines. Now, when you have profanity in a game where such things dont belong (see most fantasy games), it does indeed detract from the game.

[Dark Wanderer]

I don't mind bloody games or gmaes with adult stuff such as sex, but there should in certain cases be such things as age limits.

[Rosbjerg]

now first of all .. I see this as a from of addiction .. and as we all now, some people are more receptive to addiction than others! and read the following with that in mind:

 

I think there's a deeper psychological perspective.. Humans seem to enjoy a certain degree of violence, I mean most people laugh when they see Jackas$ ..

in this new time of non-violence and peace in the western world (I know we fight wars, but no wars are fought in our own countries), violence is only seen on TV and on games, so a dangerous degree of distance is taken to the images, we become immune to images, because our minds can't fully comprehend the truth about what we see .. then it becomes entertainment (though few take offence to it out of principle), but still not fully understanding it!

I mean the closet thing average joe in the western world comes to violence is the occasional bar brawl .. which seldom results in more than a black eye or broken bones!

 

the problem is then that we get the adrenalin from playing those games, and while having fun and getting relief endorphins are released, but not the fear and other consequences such actions would normally produce .. this creates an addiction to the adrenalin and the relief (our body needs the occasional burst of adrenalin and endorphins) subconsciously your brain sees gaming, as a positive behavioural pattern, which in turn creates a crave to repeat that behaviour ..

we see this everyday, people are becoming addicted to games and the internet in a much higher degree ..

 

then the real problem arises (talking about gamers) .. what will a person do when simple gaming is no longer enough, because any addiction requires an increase in the behaviour or drug .. will he turn to real life violence? which will release a MUCH higher level of adrenaline (and if he does that he is already at a point of his addiction where the fear and broken bones only fuel his twisted need for more adrenaline).. or will he simply play more games?

we don't know, but fact is that more and more young people *are* turning violent!

 

(I don't know if it's only Denmark, but for each year I see more and more violence in the streets, more people taking drugs .. more people taking harder drugs! it seems our society some how forces us to seek our primal thrills in a higher degree than before .. perhaps because they can't be expressed otherwise!)

 

so who's to blame? the one commiting the crime? the parents? TV/games? society?

 

I think it's a combination of all of them .. Tv and games endorse violence .. and endorses violence as entertainment! but parents aren't helping their kids by setting proper rules of behavior! and society, the most abstract of them all, endorses violence by indifference!

[Volourn]

Quite frnakly, people should stop worrying about violence in entertainment and worry more about violenc ein RL. Violence in entertainment is not real. Period. It cannot hurt you at all. It is harmless. Violence also doesn't causes people to committ RL violence either. If someone used half a brain they would realize even some had committed violence after playing games; they probably had a lot of other major problems that led them to violence than just playinga silly video games. Completely reminds me of the D&D paranoia where the one mother whined that D&D mad eher sona killer - than it came out that her son was doing drugs, and doing all sorts of other ****. Dumb.

 

That is all.

[Ludozee]

so who's to blame? the one commiting the crime? the parents? TV/games? society?

 

I think it's a combination of all of them .. Tv and games endorse violence .. and endorses violence as entertainment! but parents aren't helping their kids by setting proper rules of behavior! and society, the most abstract of them all, endorses violence by indifference!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but a game or an movie itself can't be blamed, it's the one who plays/watches it that is influenced by violence and an adult person is always responsible for his own actions. In case of children, it's the parents who are responsible.

And to blame such a thing on society is hypocrite. We all are the society, so we all are responsible, but we blame it on society as if it's not our fault. We use it as an excuse to deny our responsibilities.

[Rosbjerg]

A person is always responsible for his own actions .. very true! and something I firmly believe in! but when you are forging your personality you are very impressionable! at a young age, complete indifference of violence by everyone around you, will breed an indifferent attitude towards it in you!

so therefore society (as I said the most abstract of all) can be blamed, since we seem to wanna place the blame elsewhere!

you and I are endorsing violence as entertainment, by buying games where that is the case! and we blame the parents, who blame TV/Games .. that is the indifference that society creates, the lack of responsibility people are taking for their own actions..

[Ludozee]

Let me give you a nice example of that.

My aunt lives in Scotland, and she works for the town of Ayr. She was held responsible when a five year old kid drowned in a pond. The people overthere said that the pond was town property, and if the pond wouldn't have been there, the kid wouldn't have drowned. So they filled the pond with sand to make sure nobody could drown there again! That is too ridiculous for words!

At least in Holland people would say that the parents should have watched their child, and besides that, every 5 year old child in Holland can swim (or at least float)...

[Judge Hades]

Every person is responsible for their own actions. If they cannot, then they need to be locked up in a mental ward. Children are the responsibility of their parents and no one else. If a parent can't take care of their kid responsibily then the kid should be taken away from the adult and placed in care that can raise the kid responsibly.

 

People need to take personal accountablity for their actions. Playing the blame game is just stupid.

[Rosbjerg]

but there's a big difference imo, between a child drowing by accident .. and a teenager going beserk on drugs and kills someone in a fight! or just fighting every weekend when drinking!

now a big part in danish culture is drinking at social events, and some people can't control themselves as easily when they drink or taking drugs (although they are still responsible for their actions imo) ..

 

now I'm not blaming games as a whole for that, nor society, parents!

 

I blame the kid .. but!

 

the kid did it because he never learned how to control his abuse .. he never learned how to control his anger! that's the parents job to at least try to teach this, and if unsuccesful, then prohibit the kid from going drinking without some kind of supervision!

 

but culture is to blame too .. and group pressure, because all his friends drink (and why do they drink?)! so he feels a pressure to drink, perhaps even if he knows the consequences!

 

while this is a thread about violence in games and TV.. this, imo, trancends to the general view on violence! because games and TV are just showing what people want to see ..

 

that's why a change of attitude on ALL fronts are required .. society needs to take a look at it's own bad habits! parents need to take a look at the consequences of their inaction! and the individual must learn to excersize selfcontrol if he wishes to live in this kind of society!

 

(I get the feeling I'm not making any sense .. still a bit affected from the alcohol from last night (ha ironic isn't it) do I make sense? or is just that you don't agree?)

[Judge Hades]

How the kid reacts to culture is completely in his control. I have the opportunity to do drugs, drink alcohal, and other unsavory things as well but did I? Nope, because I took control of my life. I took hold responsibility without being swayed by anyone or anything.

 

If that kid couldn't he was weak and has no one to blame but himself and the parents should have done a better job parenting him.

[Rosbjerg]

How the kid reacts to culture is completely in his control.  I have the opportunity to do drugs, drink alcohal, and other unsavory things as well but did I?  Nope, because I took control of my life.  I took hold responsibility without being swayed by anyone or anything. 

 

If that kid couldn't he was weak and has no one to blame but himself and the parents should have done a better job parenting him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

unfortunatly alot of people are weak .. and easily swayed by the opinions of others! if they were a minority we could disregard it! but they are not!

and it seems young people are having a hard time resisting it these days .. especially here! and that affects me, because they want to fight .. now I could blame parents, but I know how my mom toiled as a single parent to pay for a house with 3 kids! I mean parents are just human .. they can't do everything perfect! so society needs to help where it can to lift the burden when possible and necessary!

 

and I find it strange that all of a sudden every new parent apperantly suck at raising their kids! there has to be something more than just neglect!

[mkreku]

The problem with violence in gaming and movies is not that it encourages people to become violent in reality. The problem lies in the fact that when people first see violence, they react strongly. Most people (except the mentally ill) have built in mental blocks that tells them what is right and wrong. When a person is subjected to excessive violence day in and day out, the "shock factor" of violence disappears. Violence becomes every day life, it becomes normalized. This happens to kids playing CS every day (it is a measurable fact, using war traumatized children as comparison) and it happens to adults watching action movies every day. It's natural for humans to adapt to their environment, and in this case it means that the mental blocks that make you react strongly against violence slowly degrade and finally disappear. This is also the reason why normal people are able to kill, rape and torture their enemies during times of war.

 

I wish the world was as black and white as Volourn/Hades_One tries to describe it.. "You're responsible for your own actions blah blah". Well, what if your brain suddenly decides to erase the borders between what is right and what is wrong?

 

Yes, I think there's too much violence in games. It adds nothing to a game to see brains splatter all over a wall or limbs flying to the left and right.

[Ludozee]

Edit: @ Rosbjerg

 

I was talking about responsibility in general. I'm pretty darn sure there is a connection between violence on TV and in games and violence in real life. It hardens society and, like you said above, creates indifference. But you can't blame a game for being violent, nor can you blame a drunken, stoned teenager for (accidentally) killing someone in a fight. It all starts with the education and your morality and responsibility tought by the parents. Everything you stated boils down to the moral standards you have learned when you were young.

Mind you, I'm not solely blaming parents, because in some situations (divoce, broken families e.g.) it's not possible to create a solid environment for children to grow up. But school plays a big part in it too. If I see how bad the situation is on some schools overhere (teacher shot by 16 year old with gun), teachers threatened, other children threatened) I know something has to change. I don't know if you've ever heard of a so called "waldorf" school, but I think that schooltype is the only kind of school in Holland who takes their responsibilty for a childs education.

[Judge Hades]

I wish the world was as black and white as Volourn/Hades_One tries to describe it.. "You're responsible for your own actions blah blah". Well, what if your brain suddenly decides to erase the borders between what is right and what is wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then you own up to your mistakes and take responsiblity for them. You hold yourself accountable and take the consequences for your actions, may it be good or detrimental.

[Rosbjerg]

yes Mrkeku .. and throw in addiction to adrenalin in the ****tail and you have a dangerous mix!

[Judge Hades]

Then the consequence will be that such a person needs to be taken out before he does any damage. He has no one to blame but himself and he needs to deal with the consequences.

[Ludozee]

Then the consequence will be that such a person needs to be taken out before he does any damage.  He has no one to blame but himself and he needs to deal with the consequences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But then again: If you were never tought to be responsible for your own actions, how are you to blame?

[mkreku]

I hate this stupid language filter! **** Cheney drinks ****tails!

 

Anyhow.. With most normal people violence is not really a problem. But there are some people where the thresholds between reality and fiction is weaker than those of a normal people, and it is those people who can be triggered by excessive violence in media. The problem is that it's impossible to tell which ones can handle the violence and which cannot. Well, until it is too late.

 

Violent behaviour is usually triggered when a person's ego has been hurt. Like when you're bullied in school (Columbine) or when you feel society treated you unfairly (Washington DC sniper).

[Judge Hades]

You still are. What do you mean by taught? No one ever taught me to take personal responsiblity for myself. I always had the feeling of what is right and wrong for me was instinctual. I just have it.