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romeo_longsword

Icewind Dale II

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Where is the portion of D&D character creation where you develop personality, ethics, background, etc?

 

You can tell a lot about a roleplaying system by taking a peek at the character sheet.

 

D&D is about "roll" playing.  You can "role" play in D&D despite the rules.  But that's not what the rules cater to.

 

You shouldn't need a bunch of rules to flesh out your character.

 

but yes, you're quite correct, D&D only caters the basic mechanics.

 

it's my opinion that if you can't do them well don't do them at all.(I think WoD system is horrid).


"If at first you don't succeed... So much for skydiving." - Henry Youngman.

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You're entitled to your opinion on the WOD system. The new system is a little quicker.

 

My point however, is that a system like the WOD system actually has rules to cater to "role" playing. If you play your nature/demeanor well, then you are rewarded with Willpower points.

 

If you fail to play with your morality path, you are penalized.

 

The game is designed to encourage role-play. D&D is not.

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"Where is the portion of D&D character creation where you develop personality, ethics, background, etc?

 

You can tell a lot about a roleplaying system by taking a peek at the character sheet.

 

D&D is about "roll" playing. You can "role" play in D&D despite the rules. But that's not what the rules cater to."

 

Huh? Unlike other pnp systems, D&D doesn't force you into some silly role. The closest thing to it is alignment and even that has lots of leeway (safe paladin and possibly monk).

 

Perosnality, ethics, background is not and should not be a hard coded rule. Unlike other pnp systems, D&D doesn't force you to roll some random die to get your charatcer's perosnalities. That's lame. Plain, and simple lame. That kind of thing should be done well thought out by the player with the help of the DM to fit the campaign setting. That kind of things shouldn't be sticthed on to some lame character sheet.

 

Perhaps its those other systems that are about "roll playing" and not role-playing.

 

Seriously, the last thing iw ant in chart form is how many relatives I have or how my parents died (or if they even died). That's pathetic in all its lameness.

 

 

"D&D is about "roll" playing."

 

No. A system that forces you to ROLL up your character's personality, history, nad background is the ROLL playing game. D&D is a role-playing game.

 

The palyer decides that stuff. Period. This stuff is expalined quite clearly in both the PHB and epsicially in the DMG.

 

All characters should have a genral personality, ethics systems, and have at least a (semi) detailed background. However, none of this rolled like in other systems which are nothing but ROLL playing systems.

 

Lame.

 

D&D is the best ROLE-playing system becuase it allows the PLAYERS to role-play thier characters; not forcing them to ROLLplay them.

 

I don't want a set of dice telling me my character is honourable.

 

R00fles!

 

 

"My point however, is that a system like the WOD system actually has rules to cater to "role" playing. If you play your nature/demeanor well, then you are rewarded with Willpower points."

 

That's not roleplaying; that's rollplaying.

 

 

"If you fail to play with your morality path, you are penalized."

 

OMG! That's the D&D system. You have NEVER played D&D. Never.

 

 

"The game is designed to encourage role-play. D&D is not."

 

You got that backwards. D&D is role-playing; WOF is rollplaying.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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You don't roll up your personality in a WOD game.

 

I have no idea where you got that impression. D&D however has rules for randomly rolling up your personality bad background.

 

Weak trolling. I expect better from you.

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"D&D however has rules for randomly rolling up your personality bad background."

 

Yes, it does. Fully optional. And, the books even reccommend that in the long run that for all but the truly new beginner; it's best to come up with your own background. The 'random perosnality/backgrounds' are for groups who wnat to quickly get into the game for whatever reason or for run of the mill npcs to fill up that large city.

 

D&D has LOTS of guidelines for how to role-play "properly"; but they're exactly that - guidelines.

 

Youa re the one who is 'qeakly" torlling when you claim that D&D doens't do role-playing and is only roll playing when you CONVINETLY ignore the cocnept of alignment when does focus on how a characetr can act . Changing your alignment is a BIG deal in D&D and characetrs that do it - espicially frequently - will run into lots of trouble - both mecchnaically, and espicially role-playing wise. Unless you only play with horrible DMs who don't enforce the alignment rulez (optional of course like anything in D&D).

 

D&D has as much depth role-playing wise as ANY game if not more so than most.

 

And, it sure as heck doens't force you to role-play a certain way even as a paladin which many awkwardly try to claim is limited. Just playthe 'famous' D&D module Dragon Mountian for one different take of a paladin.

 

Face it. The afct you think D&D is poor role-playing makes YOU a troll since its a comment designed to make soemthing up to get a reaction out of epople who know better than believe such nonsense.

 

Peace. Or War. Both work for me. :D


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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The first half of the game, including making my party, was the most fun I've had in any RPG! The last half of the game was a rollercoaster slide straight downhill, in my opinion. Many areas of the last half of the game were poorly designed, alternately frustrating or boring players to tears.

 

I found it worth playing... once. But frankly I've never been moved to play it again, while I've played IWD/HOW/TotL over a dozen times, and still love every minute of it.

 

IWD2 was a disappointment overall for me.

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The first half of the game, including making my party, was the most fun I've had in any RPG!  The last half of the game was a rollercoaster slide straight downhill, in my opinion.  Many areas of the last half of the game were poorly designed, alternately frustrating or boring players to tears. 

 

I found it worth playing... once.  But frankly I've never been moved to play it again, while I've played IWD/HOW/TotL over a dozen times, and still love every minute of it.

 

IWD2 was a disappointment overall for me.

Hmm. While I don't really enjoy pure dungeon crawls, I agree with you. IWD2 went straight downhill as soon as you got to the Severed Hand. Unfortunately, the first half of IWD I found boring as hell, at least until Arundel was killed. All the 'Brother Poquelin' plot was pretty cool IMO.

 

Even though I don't count IWD2 as an overall disappointment, I was rather pissed by the ridiculous endbosses powers/abilities/immunities. It ruined the overall experience if you ask me.


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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The first world map of icewind dale 2 was a masterpiece, it was excellently designed and played damn well. The only problem was that there were no good items to be found at all, thus, combat did not feel rewarding.

 

But the second area and the third area was crap. The only good part towards the end of the game was when you got back to the severed hand.

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Ahhhh, but Arundel's demise took place in the first quarter of the game (even less if you include HOW/ToTL in the mix!). I actually don't mind the opening segments, because I'm still enamored of the hauntingly beautiful music (the best of any RPG ever made, in my opinion!)... and besides, things get exciting as soon as one finishes the first major area, the haunted dale.

 

IWD2 had so very much promise... yet I find myself yawning shortly after the fell wood marshes. I perked up slightly during the new Kuldahar experience, and found the Guardian stimulating and challenging! But the new Dragon Eye just annoyed me to the marrow, and severed hand was incredibly boring, followed by an end fight that was obviously designed NOT to be possible on the first try. After one discovers all the various secrets, it can be taken care of rather efficiently... but I really didn't care at that point, because the game had annoyed me too much.

 

A crying shame, frankly, since its predecessor, IWD/HOW/ToTL, was the best dungeon crawl I have ever had the pleasure of playing.

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I really enjoyed IWD2, up to a point... more specifically the Ice Temple point... and after I managed to escape that place, I started enjoying the game again. Fell Wood and the time loop thingy were not too bad, once I figured them out.


I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God.

So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me?

Nothing personal. It's just revenge.

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IWD2 had so very much promise... yet I find myself yawning shortly after the fell wood marshes.  I perked up slightly during the new Kuldahar experience, and found the Guardian stimulating and challenging!  But the new Dragon Eye just annoyed me to the marrow, and severed hand was incredibly boring, followed by an end fight that was obviously designed NOT to be possible on the first try.  After one discovers all the various secrets, it can be taken care of rather efficiently... but I really didn't care at that point, because the game had annoyed me too much.

 

 

Ha, I guess you never heard of that little cheesy item called scroll of protection from magic. No more spell casting from the demon siblings.

 

Moving on, I found the first part of IWD2 to be quite brilliant, in fact, IWD2 starting quests - up untill, and including the horde fotress were probably the best parts of any FR game. Things did go downhill after that part of the game, but the game wasnt that bad overall.

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Once you got to the second world map everything crapped out. My character, despite having almost maxed remove traps couldnt disable or find most of the traps in the map, the balance was completely screwed up. The enemies sucked, the puzzles were annoying, the art sucked(except the ice temple), the music sucked, the roleplaying sucked etc. The second map of icewind dale 2 was quite terrible.

 

BTW the vale of shadows in icewind dale rocked.

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The beginning of IWD2 was good, everything in-between was average and the last area the Severed Hand turned out to be the best area of the whole game.

 

The Severed Hand in IWD2 I found to be one of the better crafted areas BIS did in any of their games. Think about it you


Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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I thought I had found most of the severed hand sidequests... although maybe not. I'll confess that being whisked into the final battle without warning... not to mention without a chance to buff my party and rest to prepare spells... was a real shock, and contributed to my first defeat. After reloading and studying my memory of what happened and why, I realized what I had to do to survive. The second time, with my party rested and buffed against the mass dominate and stun spells that had decimated me, I was able to muster up an adequate victory without losing any party members.

 

The point was that by the time I got to Severed Hand I was so bored and frustrated by the game I just wanted to get through it. And once I did, I tossed it in a corner, never enticed to play it again. Considering the dozen or more times I've played IWD/HOW/ToTL, that is truly unique for me.

 

IWD2 could have been the best dungeon crawl ever made, because it began so brilliantly! For me, it failed that because as the game continued it became so very erratic in content and quality that it made me lose interest toward the end. So IWD/HOW/ToTL remains the dungeon crawl Champ IMHO!

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The biggest pitfall for me in IWD2 was the story. I thought it was a silly idea. It was fleshed out and written well; I


Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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I would have loved the option to side with the Crimeon (sp?) Legion .. I mean why shouldn't all the freaks of the forgotten realms have their own nation??

 

but nothing beats the narrator of IWD!


Fortune favors the bald.

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I would have loved the option to side with the Crimeon (sp?) Legion .. I mean why shouldn't all the freaks of the forgotten realms have their own nation??

 

but nothing beats the narrator of IWD!

 

David Ogden Stiers?


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So IWD/HOW/ToTL remains the dungeon crawl Champ IMHO!

Agreed! :)


I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God.

So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me?

Nothing personal. It's just revenge.

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I found both IWD & IWDII to be lackluster compared to the Baldur's Gate series and Planescape: Torment.

 

I did like being able to create a whole party from scratch, but I really missed the interparty banter present in BG & PS:T.

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At Insane difficulty, if you want to powerplay it, its a easy game:

 

Just keep 6 spellusers at lvl 2 untill you reach the Big Bridge, then lvl up to the max (lvl 30), then stand behind 6 high lvl super-undead till the end of the game. Those undead are mean sucka's. Let them kill the endless monsters in game, while your invisible characters stay back and prune their fingernails.

 

 

Game was a closet fight kinda, and sometimes game would grab your characters and walk them face to face to bad guys for a conversation...then a fight...whether you liked it or not (something I disapproved of).

 

 

No real spoilers here..so I posted no warning. But its worth playing once.

 

 

Treat the game seriously tho, since the game is out to get your characters killed big time. Theres no occasions to smell the roses...unless the area is secure. But...then all you'll smell is rotting enemy corpses.

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I've played through the first two thirds of IWD and IWD2 countless times, but never beaten them. I plan to next year in a few multiplayer sessions.

 

Icewind Dale is worth playing to the end. After that, just enter the heart of winter campaign, but dont play it, go straight to trials of the luremaster. There are reasons for this. Trials of the luremaster is a very good campaign(although short), and it is challenging if you are at low levels. Thus it is better if you play totl before playing through heart of winter. If you play heart of winter first, you will level a lot and will not be challenged by totl. Heart of winter has excellent graphics(the best looking areas of any ie game, by FAR), and the story is also very, very good. Unfortunately, the atmosphere sucks, and the combat is all mindless hack and slash, and requires none of the tactics that icewind dale did.

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