The influence of nostalgia on gamers' TSL rating

[Nur Ab Sal]

While I haven't played TSL myself yet (only observed it for a while at my xboxer friend's home) so I can't say about my feelings, I am under impression that most gamers are sharp on TSL bugs and storyline flaws becouse TSL is a continuation, not such groundbreaking game as KOTOR. KOTOR was some kind of culture shock

with so many great ideas, that people actually didn't notice its many flaws and if even they did - they focused more on KOTOR's positive sides. Sequel rarely is original and gamers are already familiar with things like graphics or interface... nothing is new except the storyline - and that's why people focus more on the storyline and criticize it. And if TSL would be first such game? How would you rate it, without knowing about existence of KOTOR 1? No spoilers please!

[bodrock]

imho, KOTOR II is just as magical as the first. I haven't completed the game yet, but in the 30 hours I've played so far, I've enjoyed every minute of the journey, like I did KOTOR. well, Except for them LOADING screens. The game could have used more polish, but as is, it's my personal GotY.

[Craigboy2]

While I haven't played TSL myself yet (only observed it for a while at my xboxer friend's home) so I can't say about my feelings, I am under impression that most gamers are sharp on TSL bugs and storyline flaws becouse TSL is a continuation, not such groundbreaking game as KOTOR. KOTOR was some kind of culture shock

with so many great ideas, that people actually didn't notice its many flaws and if even they did - they focused more on KOTOR's positive sides. Sequel rarely is original and gamers are already familiar with things like graphics or interface... nothing is new except the storyline - and that's why people focus more on the storyline and criticize it. And if TSL would be first such game? How would you rate it, without knowing about existence of KOTOR 1? No spoilers please!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would rate it a little higher than KOTOR because KOTOR II has more things to ofer than KOTOR I

[Volourn]

"While I haven't played TSL myself yet (only observed it for a while at my xboxer friend's home) so I can't say about my feelings, I am under impression that most gamers are sharp on TSL bugs and storyline flaws becouse TSL is a continuation, not such groundbreaking game as KOTOR. KOTOR was some kind of culture shock

with so many great ideas, that people actually didn't notice its many flaws and if even they did - they focused more on KOTOR's positive sides. Sequel rarely is original and gamers are already familiar with things like graphics or interface... nothing is new except the storyline - and that's why people focus more on the storyline and criticize it. And if TSL would be first such game? How would you rate it, without knowing about existence of KOTOR 1? No spoilers please!"

 

I agree with you 100%. And, I mentioned this multiple times pre release; but people pushawed me. Booey to them and good for you for being One of the Many to find Enlightenment of Volournia.

 

I epxect KOTOR2 to be a real fun game in it's own right; but it won't be OMG OMG OMG!

 

Good stuff. :cool:

[Dracomicron]

I epxect KOTOR2 to be a real fun game in it's own right; but it won't be OMG OMG OMG!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know if my heart could take it if every game was like that.

[Judge Hades]

The only thing I was expecting KotOR 2 is to be the same game as KotOR 1 was, but just with a different story. No more and no less, though I wished it was closer to the PnP rules and left the munchkin aspects out.

[Grandpa]

The only thing I was expecting KotOR 2 is to be the same game as KotOR 1 was, but just with a different story.  No more and no less, though I wished it was closer to the PnP rules and left the munchkin aspects out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just be happy they didn't introduce any stuffed anumals or muppets into this episode...assuming they haven't...please don't say they have.....

[EnderAndrew]

The game is locking up a bit more for Sarah, but the quest and dialogue seem vastly improved, and I think KOTOR:2 is a better game. Waiting until Feb to release it probably would have helped, but that was LA's decision, not Obsidians.

 

I think you have a point that we see the game in a different light as a sequel. Instead of enjoying it as a game, we hold it to higher standards.

[ken the great]

The only thing I was expecting KotOR 2 is to be the same game as KotOR 1 was, but just with a different story.  No more and no less, though I wished it was closer to the PnP rules and left the munchkin aspects out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of lofty expectations, huh?

 

I suggest you don't bother with KOTOR2. It is not KOTOR1..

[ken the great]

Just be happy they didn't introduce any stuffed anumals or muppets into this episode...assuming they haven't...please don't say they have.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well....there are these cute little things on......

 

 

Nah....I don't want to give you any spoilers. "

 

[Laozi]

Where as I would definitely say that KOTOR 2 is better than the original, I don't think we'll have as much a perspective until the 3rd one is out.

[EnderAndrew]

KOTOR:2 has a boat-load of improvements that so many people discount out of hand.

 

New Lightsaber upgrades.

Lightsaber forms

Influence system

Random loot

MUCH better dialogue

A real dark side path

Tons more replay value

Weapon switching on the fly

More force powers

The new workbench - this is huge

Much better skill implementation. Every attribute and skill is worthwhile now.

 

How are people calling KOTOR a 10/10 and calling KOTOR:2 a 6/10 when KOTOR:2 has so many improvements?

[ken the great]

Because people are expecting KOTOR2 to be a ground breaking game. It's not. KOTOR2 is a good solid game that I am am enjoying.

 

How many mediocre games receive good scores because nobody expected them to be good? And hoe many good games get bad scores because they failed to live up to the lofty expactations of the reviewer.

 

Expectations are everything in the review business.

[AlanC9]

How are people calling KOTOR a 10/10 and calling KOTOR:2 a 6/10 when KOTOR:2 has so many improvements?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe they're not impressed by the improvements. I thought Kotor 1 had too many items as it was, so the workbench and all of that is a step backwards for me (though since you don't have to use that junk, it isn't a big deal).

[nightcleaver]

It's far more ground-breaking than Fable was.

[EnderAndrew]

Fable wouldn't even allow you to play a female character. No RPG can be truly ground breaking and not even let you pick gender.

[Ostkant]

EnderWiggin, you fail greatly to see the negatives of KOTOR 2. Surely you read my post in another thread on all the unanswered questions - things that were never explained, and not only that of course.

 

Still, I noticed all the improvements in KOTOR 2, and I liked them.

 

I focus on the positive parts of KOTOR 2 mostly, but still I felt like I was on a great date with a nice girl that didn't want to tell me her name and then ended up confusing me, leaving me at her door without words.

[EnderAndrew]

On the unanswered questions, I won't know until I beat the game, which largely means waiting for my girlfriend to beat it so I can steal the XBox controller from her hands.

[Volourn]

"New Lightsaber upgrades.""

 

Just makes them overpowered. Not really an improvement. I mean you now have 6-7 "slots" to embue it with ridiulous powers.

 

 

"Lightsaber forms"

 

This is cool. A very good improvement. It's too bad its wasted in what seems to be an easy game much like all of TOEE options (aside from 5' step).

 

 

"Influence system"

 

I thought so too; but now from what I've ehard it's a mixed bag.

 

 

"Random loot"

 

Improvement? This is a weakness. Random loot sucks in RPGs. Yeah, that guy carries a red lightsabre; but he drops a blue one. Hahaha. A REAL improvement. Indeed.

 

 

"MUCH better dialogue"

 

We shall see; but I doubt it consideirng the already high quality dialogue of the first game. Plus, youa re a MCA fanboy (no offense! ) so I'll take your word here with a grain of salt.

 

"A real dark side path"

 

Eh? The first game had a REAL dark side path. This point makes no sense.

 

"Tons more replay value"

 

Maybe. But, cosnideirng I've only finished KOTOR1ce (on my seocnd way through); I doubt KOTOR2 will get more than 2 play throughs max for me. The KOTOR series doesn't reek of that due to the cinemtatic nature.

 

 

"Weapon switching on the fly"

 

In KOTOR1.

 

"More force powers"

 

More choice is always good; but not really an 'improvement'.

 

"The new workbench - this is huge"

 

In some ways, yes; in some ways no. It's greta to eb able to use it so; but considering the over poweredness of the characters; it just makes you more uber.

 

 

"Much better skill implementation. Every attribute and skill is worthwhile now."

 

Huh? I found every attribute and skill wortwhhile in KOTOR1. We shall see about KOTOR2; but the fact it sues skills more in dialogue (apparantly) is cool.

 

In conclusion, KOTOR2 will probably be good; but you overrate it's quality most likely and call things improvement when they really aren't.

 

Tsk, tsk.

[Bokishi]

I don't understand the "Real" dark path either. It is just made up of cheap thuggery like the first one's dark path was.

[Baneblade]

I have to agree with Volourn on this one.....

 

[ken the great]

"Influence system"

 

I thought so too; but now from what I've ehard it's a mixed bag.

The influence system is cool. The mixed bag is people expecting too much from the programming.

 

 

"MUCH better dialogue"

 

We shall see; but I doubt it consideirng the already high quality dialogue of the first game. Plus, youa re a MCA fanboy (no offense! ) so I'll take your word here with a grain of salt.

Then take myword for it, the dialogue is better in KOTOR2. The dialogue is more diverse and has better options. It is much easier to go the gray path in KOTOR2 than it was in KOTOR1. There is no need to balance good and bad responses. You can just pick the gray one.

 

"A real dark side path"

 

Eh? The first game had a REAL dark side path. This point makes no sense.

The first one had a brutal dark side path. You were pretty much a thug if you went DS. In KOTOR2 you can be a true Sith Lord. You can use decpetion and manipulation to achieve your goals. Your selfishness can be hidden behind many layers of lies and deciept. I would say more, but then I would include too many spoilers.

 

"Weapon switching on the fly"

 

In KOTOR1.

Yes, but you had to go through the clunky inventory system to switch weapons. In KOTOR2, you can setup two sets of weapons and switch between those sets during combat. It is much more fluid to switch between ranged weapons and melee weapons during combat.

 

"More force powers"

 

More choice is always good; but not really an 'improvement'.

Then what is an improvement? If it is good and not in the first game, shouldn't it be called an improvement?

 

"The new workbench - this is huge"

 

In some ways, yes; in some ways no. It's greta to eb able to use  it so; but considering the over poweredness of the characters; it just makes you more uber.

So? Then don't use the workbench. Play the game how you want to play it.

 

 

"Much better skill implementation. Every attribute and skill is worthwhile now."

 

Huh? I found every attribute  and skill wortwhhile in KOTOR1. We shall see about KOTOR2; but the fact it sues skills more in dialogue (apparantly) is cool.

There were some skills that weren't very useful in KOTOR1. Things like a high demolition or a high security weren't that important. If you ran into a mine you couldn't recover, chances are you could disable it with a 5 or 6 in demolitions. And if you couldn't open a lock, just bash it. You wouldn't damage the contents. In KOTOR2, if you bash a chest, you risk damaging the contents. Also, the skills in dialogue add some flavor and immersion factor to the game. If you are a computer expert, then you will be able to pick dialogue options that reflect your skill.

 

In conclusion, KOTOR2 will probably be good; but you overrate it's quality most likely and call things improvement when they really aren't.

 

Tsk, tsk.

Tsk, tsk.

 

Maybe you should actually play the game before you belittle someone for their opinion. Perhaps your expectations are too high and you are unable to see the improvements because KOTOR2 isn't a leap forward from KOTOR1.

[GhostofAnakin]

While I haven't played TSL myself yet (only observed it for a while at my xboxer friend's home) so I can't say about my feelings, I am under impression that most gamers are sharp on TSL bugs and storyline flaws becouse TSL is a continuation, not such groundbreaking game as KOTOR. KOTOR was some kind of culture shock

with so many great ideas, that people actually didn't notice its many flaws and if even they did - they focused more on KOTOR's positive sides. Sequel rarely is original and gamers are already familiar with things like graphics or interface... nothing is new except the storyline - and that's why people focus more on the storyline and criticize it. And if TSL would be first such game? How would you rate it, without knowing about existence of KOTOR 1? No spoilers please!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it's natural to see the original in a positive light since it was your "first". I'm betting that many flaws in the original are overlooked that are constantly being harped upon in the second. Whether that's a fair thing to do or not is another debate altogether.

[Volourn]

"Maybe you should actually play the game before you belittle someone for their opinion. Perhaps your expectations are too high and you are unable to see the improvements because KOTOR2 isn't a leap forward from KOTOR1. "

 

Other than teasing him about beinga fanboy; I'm not belittling Ender at all.

 

As for not having played the game; one does not need to when multiple people have shared their experiences with the game and I can use logic to see what makes sense.

 

Of course, it's not like I'm saying KOTOR2 sucks the big one. I'm just syaing it's not as perfect as Ender seems to claim it is.

[kefka]

huh, more contradictions...

 

one person says:

I don't understand the "Real" dark path either. It is just made up of cheap thuggery like the first one's dark path was.

the next person replies:

In KOTOR2 you can be a true Sith Lord. You can use decpetion and manipulation to achieve your goals. Your selfishness can be hidden behind many layers of lies and deciept.

Just like the people who argue about how effective influence is.

 

So which is it???