Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[Tainted Mustard]

I really don't know about the ritual - I was having too much fun blasting the Jedi Masters to care at that point. Best sequence in the game, I thought. But yes - I don't remember it ever being explained. I tell ya - those Sith and their dead Lords.

[manifestus]

... So in the end we're supposed to be some character ripped from Dune? (e.g. read God Emperor of Dune)

 

... *sigh.

 

[Edonidd]

The "plot" of this game makes me think of what happens when I try to write something too fast. One of those papers you forgot to write until an hour before class, so you try to crank it out. It makes perfect sense in your head, and your always proud that you did such a good job on such short notice. Then you get the paper back the next day, and see that you left out words in the middle of a sentence, and sometimes maybe even whole sentences.

 

I'm sure this was a great plot in somebody's head, the problem is nobody else ever proof-read it for him to realize that there were a few words missing.

[ryan12177]

Boiler was 100% dead-on and the never explained plot points gave me that Matrix feel where you're going "they never answered any of the questions they presented to us?"

 

I think the strength of KOTOR and what mad eit the game of the year was the re-playability of it and after I beat it the first time I immediately started a new game. With the Sith Lords I've had to literally sit and force myself to play through a second time(my darkside run) because the ending of the game is so amazingly un-rewarding.

 

The more I've thought about the ending of Sith Lords the lower my opinion of the game has gone. Its a good game, but considering it was following the original I expected so much more and its just not there.

[anubis]

Another plot point which came to mind which I realized I am totally clueless about.  The Sith Assassins and, more specifically, the ritual the Sith were performing on Dxun.

 

What was the point of the ritual on Dxun?  Was this Sion or Nihilis trying to do something which is just never explained.  Was this part of Kreia's master plan?  How did it help in either situation?  Did the writers just decide -- "Hey, we need a 'ritual' of some sort, somewhere"?

 

I sent Visas, Bao-Dur and Disciple to take care of it.  Visas and Bao-Dur had a new dialog option afterwards to discuss what had happened... but the conversations goes nowhere.  They just say if effected them and they don't want to take about it, or that it isn't worth discussing.  So the trip just seems to end up being another meaningless adventure.

 

Did I miss something else that explained this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think that the ritual was the reason why the settelers decided to finnaly use force against the queen.

[Boiler98]

The "plot" of this game makes me think of what happens when I try to write something too fast.  One of those papers you forgot to write until an hour before class, so you try to crank it out.  .....

Now that's funny! (w00t) That is a darn good analogy.

 

I think the strength of KOTOR and what mad eit the game of the year was the re-playability of it and after I beat it the first time I immediately started a new game. With the Sith Lords I've had to literally sit and force myself to play through a second time(my darkside run) because the ending of the game is so amazingly un-rewarding.

I agree. I ended up playing KotOR 9 times. I own both the PC and XBox version. I've considered playing it again in recent weeks. For KotOR II, I just feel obligated to get through at least one more time so I can finish all the optional things I didn't my first time through.

 

i think that the ritual was the reason why the settelers decided to finnaly use force against the queen.

Ah! I didn't think about that. The ritual still isn't explained, that I remember, but it having something directly to do with the attack, and outcome, on Onderon makes sense.

[parkman]

I totaly agree with what all you guys said, this game is quite confuing at points.

 

After you save the queen (dont know or care to get the names), Kreia goes and revives the guy that was killed by the beast that was destroying the door shield. She does the same thing to him that she does to the wookie, but nothing happens at all ( if im wrong please tell me).

 

What was with Carth, he had like 2 lines and that was it. What became of the star forge and the ratikan? Im just *confused*

 

so many holes.

 

And another thing, was their any relavence in finding the mandalorians for Orto? Their in afew differnt spots in the game.

 

And another pressing question, im lead to believe that Mandalor is Candeous from KotOR 1, right? If he is, then why doesnt he reconize the Ebon Halk, the astro mech, or HK-47.

 

Another thing was, did anyone realy find a place to buy/get good weapons? It seemed that their wornt very many unique lightsabor cryistals or robes or anything special. Credits seemed usless.

 

Something I left out, does Uthars room do anything? Can you get into it? It says its all blocked off by a Sith or something. Just thought that was wierd.

[Boiler98]

After you save the queen (dont know or care to get the names), Kreia goes and revives the guy that was killed by the beast that was destroying the door shield. She does the same thing to him that she does to the wookie, but nothing happens at all ( if im wrong please tell me).

You do eventually see them again. But their involvement in the story after that is almost as confusing and answers nothing.

 

What was with Carth, he had like 2 lines and that was it. What became of the star forge and the ratikan? Im just *confused*

I guess it depends on what you believed happened at the KotOR1. In the case of a Lightside character, the Star Forge is destroyed. I've not played through as a DS in KotOR2 so I don't know if they go into that at all.

 

If say Raven was a LS Female, Carth shows up one more time towards the end. But he gives you doesn't give you much other then talking about his parting with Revan.

 

And another thing, was their any relavence in finding the mandalorians for Orto? Their in afew differnt spots in the game.

I'm not sure about this part. I either missed it, or do not recall it. Can you give a little more background?

 

And another pressing question, im lead to believe that Mandalor is Candeous from KotOR 1, right? If he is, then why doesnt he reconize the Ebon Halk, the astro mech, or HK-47.

Mandalor is Canderous. It doesn't apper that the story talks about him remembering or not.

 

Another thing was, did anyone realy find a place to buy/get good weapons? It seemed that their wornt very many unique lightsabor cryistals or robes or anything special.

You can buy some good upgrades. Weapons, on a whole are not too spectacular unless you can find the right upgrade for the right weapon. This I actually liked about the story -- I had to swap out weapons for the right situation much more often in KotOR2.

[servo]

This felt so much like matrix 2, it asked alot of interesting philisophical questions, but then did nothing really with those questions and added a lot of "WTF" illogical hanging plot threads.

 

1) Revan's attacks were intended to strengthen the Republic against "something"

2) Mirra was important "somehow" - with token challenge at the end that was meaningless

3) The Sith ritual - okay what was that about?

4) Sion, Nihilus, Atris - all students of Kreia and failures? A little more insight into how each proved a failure would have been nice. Best I could make out was Atris embraced the light side, and Sion embraced the dark. Nihilus?

5) The "main" plot, seemed at first that every so often, the both Jedi & Sith had to be purged from the universe leaving only 1 to define the future of the galaxy (which would tie in nicely with the movies); but then it becomes just Kriea's hate for the force.

6) What did it matter if Malachor V survived or not?

 

For a 40 hour game I loved it for 38 hours, the ending just fell to crumbs.

[Skunkubus]

I think the ritual the sith were performing was to bring all the beasts under sith control. Maybe the fact that you stopped it before it finished caused the beasts to kinda go nuts? I dunno.

[Annakie]

Boiler, the more I read your posts, the more that I think you and I think the exact same way about the game. I pretty much had all the same questions you had and a lot of the same feelings. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

Sometime next week I'm going to start a new game and see if I can't get some of these questions answered after another playthrough. The things really driving me crazy are whatever Bao-Dur was talking about with Malachor being his fault, and the unanswered "What happened with Remote and G0-T0 at the end, there?"

 

See, I can make a short post!

[Tainted Mustard]

Well, in the LS ending, the mass shadow device is obviously triggered - as the Ebon Hawk is flying away from Malachor, the entire planet is breaking apart in large wedges. I don't remember the conversation between G0-T0 and the remote, though. I don't know what he wanted to happen.

[Edonidd]

The more I think about this game, the less it fits into the Star Wars Universe IMO. All the Jedi Masters were human. Kreia conjures up 3 lightsabers out of thin air. Some weenie (Nihilus) can kill a whole planet with just the Force, but he is a wimp compared to at least 3 other people just in this game (plus every single person in my party beisdes myself could have taken him 1 vs. 1 and i could have taken on 5-6 of him at once). Sith Assassins (at least the other ones who are coming after you) absorb the force from people and get stronger when they fight force sensitives. The Exile is repeatedly told that he can't feel the force... despite the fact that even as a Weapon Master he had enough Force Power to wipe the floors with loads of Sith. You repeatedly face more Sith Lords/Assassins/Maulers than there were Force Sensitives in the entire Jedi Civil War, and thats just on one planet.

 

It's a fun game, but there were just too many idiosycracies (sp?) for it to fit in with the rest. Overall it may be KOTOR 2, but it's not Star Wars: KOTOR 2.

[Annakie]

Well, in the LS ending, the mass shadow device is obviously triggered - as the Ebon Hawk is flying away from Malachor, the entire planet is breaking apart in large wedges. I don't remember the conversation between G0-T0 and the remote, though. I don't know what he wanted to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Right, and maybe this is because I never got Bao-Dur to Jedi, but he said something to Remote (via Hologram) about how the shadow device is his fault, and I had no idea what he was talking about then. I assume it was something he built during the Mandalorian wars, but up until this point I hadn't heard anything about it.

 

G0-T0 was like "I don't want you to push the button to blow up the planet, so we're just going to sit here and hang out.", so I assumed that G0-T0 and Remote would have some kind of showdown, but that was the last we saw of it, the next thing we saw... the planet was blowing up.

[Boiler98]

...so I assumed that G0-T0 and Remote would have some kind of showdown, but that was the last we saw of it, the next thing we saw... the planet was blowing up.

After the Mira thing, I expected a showdown too. I figured I would be given the option at the end (which I kind of was) and depending on what I picked they would duke it out. No joy there though.

[Aaron Contreras]

Word. I think almost all of the problems with this game are due to not enough development time.

 

Some of the events are pretty silly as well - that bit where the main character is captured by Goto is ridiculous.

[Darth Rellim]

In general the whole thing is confusing, but specifically at the end.

 

Maybe I did something wrong but, Mira (who was in my party for like two seconds since I chose to do Nar last, I mean I had done everything without her I got her and went to Dantooine for the Jedi Council meeting) is now this important character who comes to help me, defeats the wookie, says she has to hurry off to do something (I assumed help me) but doesn't show up. The little remote is ready for a standoff with GO-TO, but we never come back to it. Kreia talks about all these 'force sensitives' but I never got enough influence to make any of them jedi so that was weird. (I thought I would lose influence if I told the HM to put on clothes, got no where with Atton, had Mira for a NY minute, and for some reason Bao-Dur's option never came up, even though I used him all the time).

 

It really feels like they had more planned for the end - either I did something so that it didn't happen or they just ran out of time to finish it.

 

Previous posts that talks about Kreia resurrecting those two characters - why? So, I could meet one of them on the ship and the other could fight Mira at the end. I really thought there would be more to it.

 

And to the last point, since I did Nar last, my char was level 23 when he was tricked by a level 6 bounty hunter (while wearing a breath mask which should have made me immune to the air) then captured by GOTO. It was silly, I like the idea of the main char being captured or subdued (like the original), but not by Mira and not at level 23. I loved the idea of having missions without the mc (which were pulled off well, like the Ship mission from the original)

[Boiler98]

I had Mira a little longer, but I didn't get much out of her over the general background story. Her importance on the end is just as confusing to me, which is extremely frustrating. I plan on picking her up first this time through, but I am afraid it will just mean she gets to fight Hanharr with a Lightsaber and nothing more.

 

The more I am able to piece together in my head, I realize the turning point is the second trip to Dantooine -- once I lose control of my destination, I lost control of the story. When your character begins to realize Kriea's minipulation is when things just seem to get cluttered and completely fall apart for me.

 

While my calculation is rough, to be sure, I estimate that 95% of the game is used to build up the "false quest" involving Sion and Nihilus. The last 5% is spent trying to explain the plot twist created on Dantooine.

[nightcleaver]

Yeah, certain things are sloppy. Why DID mira have a confrontation there? What happened with Goto and the remote? How did everyone get off the planet? Too many things unexplained, among those things. It amazes me how far this went over everyone's head, though... am I really the only one that understands Nihilus, the Sith lords? I must belong in an asylum, because I liked all that stuff. It was the other way around for me; I saw that the ending could be terrible before playing it, but afterwards I thought the idea turned out to be amazing.

 

No, it's certainly not conventional of star wars in a lot of ways. I think it should be different from the OT, it should expand more than imitate, and it did that well. I think it's lacking something... but not as much as everyone else seems to feel. I certainly agree that they needed more time, or something... but the unlike everyone else, apparently, I think the core was there, and it was strong. I thought the plot "twist" on dantooine wasn't all that unexpected... and I thought they had explained THAT well enough. Oh well...

[Tainted Mustard]

No, it's certainly not conventional of star wars in a lot of ways.  I think it should be different from the OT, it should expand more than imitate, and it did that well.  I think it's lacking something... but not as much as everyone else seems to feel.  I certainly agree that they needed more time, or something... but the unlike everyone else, apparently, I think the core was there, and it was strong.  I thought the plot "twist" on dantooine wasn't all that unexpected... and I thought they had explained THAT well enough.  Oh well...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed on all points, except I didn't care for the ending. It seemed to be trying to imitate Planescape: Torment and Fallout but only succeeded on a superficial level... like I've said before.

[Boiler98]

Well, please... share! That's the point of the thread.

 

I'm not saying the "twist" wasn't unexpected, but that is where it happened and where the goals of the game began to shift from simply stopping a Nihilis to stopping Kreia's master plan.

 

Nihilis is transformed from a galactic threat into a footnote. It does not appear, to me, that his motives are truely explained. His history with Visas, Kreia (beyond a short cutscene) and why he is doing what he is doing -- aside from a few dialog screens which quickly comment on his "hunger".

 

Sion goes Kriea's student, to Sith Lord hunting me down, to Kreia's student. No explination. I assume he is hunting me down because I am supposedly a Jedi. Okay, I'll go with that baring the lack of background on the subject. But then he is suddenly Kreia's student again and I learn I am somehow in competition with him about being "chosen" for... for what!?

 

Kreia's master plan ultimately seems to be that she wants to destroy the Force, creating a void and I am somehow the key to that. Atris tells me (after several plot holes are made with her) that Kreia is willing to kill herself in so that I also die, through out bond, in order to complete her plans. So I then go off to do exactly that... kill her!?

 

Is this what I was competing with Sion for? The chance to destroy the force? Why is Sion suddenly so commited to being Kreia's student again and stopping me from being so?

 

So in the beginning, we are running from Sith who are hunting down the remaining Jedi. I must reunite the Jedi Masters in order to combat this threat. This is the "plot" we are lead to believe for the majority of the game. Then the Masters turn on me and the whole destruction of the force plot line comes out, and everything important to the previous plot is lost.

[nightcleaver]

I always felt that he never was the whole deal. Hmm... perhaps it would've been better had they put more recognition of the fact that this guy was the most impressive of the Sith lords, even if he wasn't the most difficult to defeat.

 

From everything that's said - you're persuasions of Sion at the ending battle with him, his exchange's with Kreia... he's jealous of you, and that's part of why he hates you. His pain drives him to hunt you... his (at least a fair portion) pain comes from Kreia.

 

There were little hints along the way about Nihilus; he didn't think much of the smaller factors, he was only attracted to large-scale mass destruction, because it fed him. And without that destruction... he died a slow death, losing power.

 

The previous plot wasn't the point the entire time. It was the apparent problem of the moment, until it wasn't a problem any longer. When you've almost succeeded, you discover that that success isn't quite enough, and no longer is it the true goal. The true thing that was happening had nothing to do with the Sith of the OT, the Sith of KotOR I. Kreia says it's a force that needs to be stopped, and that belies her true intent, to destroy the Force.

 

But yeah, I guess a lot of things were glazed over and implied, where they wouldn't be in the rest of the story. The push at the end... maybe it says something, beyond them just trying to kick up the pace.

 

 

 

Really, though... doesn't it look like the shadow generator explodes, Mira and crew get back to the ship, the ship is alive after all...

 

 

Even that has a certain effect to it, though I understand not liking how it sets up those conflicts and doesn't spell out what happens. It's the kind of thing that's usually spelled out.

 

You know what? I think the whole thing was just too ambitious, and LA didn't give them enough time for their plans. Still, it doesn't bother so much as it seems to everyone else...

[Aaron Contreras]

Well, please... share!  That's the point of the thread.

 

I'm not saying the "twist" wasn't unexpected, but that is where it happened and where the goals of the game began to shift from simply stopping a Nihilis to stopping Kreia's master plan.

 

Nihilis is transformed from a galactic threat into a footnote.  It does not appear, to me, that his motives are truely explained.  His history with Visas, Kreia (beyond a short cutscene) and why he is doing what he is doing -- aside from a few dialog screens which quickly comment on his "hunger".

 

Sion goes Kriea's student, to Sith Lord hunting me down, to Kreia's student.  No explination.  I assume he is hunting me down because I am supposedly a Jedi.  Okay, I'll go with that baring the lack of background on the subject.  But then he is suddenly Kreia's student again and I learn I am somehow in competition with him about being "chosen" for... for what!?

 

Kreia's master plan ultimately seems to be that she wants to destroy the Force, creating a void and I am somehow the key to that.  Atris tells me (after several plot holes are made with her) that Kreia is willing to kill herself in so that I also die, through out bond, in order to complete her plans.  So I then go off to do exactly that... kill her!?

 

Is this what I was competing with Sion for?  The chance to destroy the force?  Why is Sion suddenly so commited to being Kreia's student again and stopping me from being so?

 

So in the beginning, we are running from Sith who are hunting down the remaining Jedi.  I must reunite the Jedi Masters in order to combat this threat.  This is the "plot" we are lead to believe for the majority of the game.  Then the Masters turn on me and the whole destruction of the force plot line comes out, and everything important to the previous plot is lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Nihilus is such a paper tiger in the end. He...somehow 'it' seems mroe appropriate...had such great potential, too.

 

Sion is barely in the game. The mining station...Korriban....last dungeon. He is a great thug/bloodhound/unstoppable force character...but those only work if you use them. He should've been stalking you at every turn.

 

Thinking about it...I didn't feel hunted by the Sith at all.

 

How *did* the Exile lose connecton to the force? Post-traumatic stress disorder? How did the Kreia form the bond? Wasn't she cut off from the force by Nihilus and Sion?

 

On the plus side, I really like the transformation of the Sith from the first game to the second. KOTOR 1 Sith were effectively no different from the Empire. The Sith as freaky manipulative world-eating assassins is much more appropriate.

[Tainted Mustard]

How *did* the Exile lose connecton to the force?  Post-traumatic stress disorder?  How did the Kreia form the bond?  Wasn't she cut off from the force by Nihilus and Sion?

 

That *is* explained, actually, and it's not *too* far from your theory. The exile can form spiritual bonds with living beings effortlessly, and one of the effects is that their pain becomes his pain, and the pain of so many lives being extinguished at once was enough for him to actually disconnect himself from the Force in order to *protect* himself from it. That's how the Masters explain it, anyway.

 

They see you as a wound in the Force, one who feeds on others to become more powerful. They refuse to accept that a living being totally untouched by the Force but still able to feel it could ever prosper without negative effects. They see in you the end of all life - with that comes the end of the Force, and they are taught that the Force is eternal. You threaten their entire belief system, and for that, they truly do fear you.

[mayo20]

For a 40 hour game I loved it for 38 hours, the ending just fell to crumbs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wurd.

 

 

As far as the plot goes, i thought it seemed fine along the way. ' I have to unite the hidden jedi masters to fight the evil sith after they reveal themselves. so i get the jedi masters at dant. and OH they want to strip my power.... again. the story then heads in a completely different direction and i spend the last parts of the game wondering "what am i fighting for now?"

 

Also at the very end, I chose to follow Revan into then "unknown" parts of space or whatever just becuase it seemed to be the least dissapointing ending to choose from but still didnt offer any real closure.

 

edit: I also only read about the first 2 pages of this thread before i felt i needed to post. so someone may have said the same thing already.