Judge Hades Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Well, what can one expect from a Bioware game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertHawk Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 On the redemption without sacrifice topic: This was indeed, an annoying trait of KOTOR. The only "sacrifice" that was possible to make in the game was Bastilia's life. (I liked the fact that carth would try to re-reedeem you if you were a chick. . .I always felt so bad for him though. Once you get past his problems, he's a nice enough fella.) On the bastilia on taris without being captured: This is explained on Korriban when Bastie says something like "the average soldier may not recognize my face, just my name, but some of the older sith will". You never met a real accomplished sith on Taris. The only one you met was the sith gov'nor. Edit: I kinda liked the way villian Revan went around, though the PC couldn't go around. If you recall from conversations with Carth that it wasn't Revan who destroyed. . .err. . .devistated Telos, it was Malak. Also in the first extended Revan cutscene, we see her forcechoking an officer (who probably would have been meat for the jedi. Choking is a bit less painful then saber burns, I'd imagine.). Also he/she does not run up to confront Bastie and gang, but assumes a defencive posture. Fnord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Ya Revan's father should have thrown Malak into some sort of shaft People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeRowe Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I always found it interesting how Admiral Karath took defected to the Sith and took his flagship with him, and yet, the Leviathan looked remarkably like the Star Forge ships and nothing like the Republic ships. Also the lack of respect for Revan bothered me, too. "Working for Davik was like driving a spike in the side of your head. Sure, you got something new up there, but in the end, you've lost something as well." - Canderous "But I though Jedi weren't allowed to love." - Handmaiden "But some do it anyway. We call it pulling a Bindo." - The Exile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trask Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 the thing i didnt like about the game was: Bastillla she was stuck up... her side quest sucked and she didnt even use her battle meditation when i wanted her to she annoyed me.. i didnt even like having her in my party... but then again ..i kept HK and Canderous just for their coments..even if i did LS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdy-worker 1138 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Taris: The PC,Mission and Bastilla emerges from the sith base after they have killed everything inside and stolen the launch codes. After a quick invetory check they walk towards the Sith Trooper garding a elevator only 30 meters away. PC: Hey you (to the sith trooper) we just killed every man,woman and droid including your govener what do you think about that huh? Sith Trooper: Not my problem,my job is to guard this elevator and only let people down if they are 1: dressed in a sith uniform or 2: having falsified papers..in both cases it dosen't matter what company they keep as long as they have the uniform or the papers..hell i would even let a jedi or a know republic pass as long as they have the papers..do you have the papers? PC: so you don't care about us killing your govener and sacking your base? Sith Trooper: Not my problem and anyway you're probally just lying! PC: no i'm not..here try and call the base on the radio..i tell you i killed them all!! Sith Trooper: No no no that will not work on me. PC: what will not work?. Sith Trooper: you're trying to get me to think logically about things..that won't happen i will not end up as them (points to a grupe of sith troopers wandering aimlessly around the streats totally oblivius to anything)...no that will not happen,so you got the papers so you can meet canderous and get of this planet? it's the only way you know. PC: But..But. Sith Trooper: Let me see them papers. PC: You know theres a jedi wantet by Malak in my company surely you will not let me pass with her here? Sith Trooper: dosen't matter as long as you have the papers i'm fine. PC: (shows papers and wander towards the elevator..turns to Bastilla and says)you know..this saving the galaxy from Malak is going to be Easy. Bastilla: You might think so but i still have several acts of stupidity up my sleave. Mission: I'm sneaky good luck finding some use for me. Groans.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hyhy.... truly great. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 One thing I would have liked to see was you visit a planet after it had been destroyed by the sith, then atleast you could see what you started, and maybe there could be a little remorse People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I didnt like when I was a level 15 DS guardian I still got no respect. That and the continual Delivery missions got a bit tiring. On official Sith business. Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed. Mao Tse-Tung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 It's very good point that Revans past crimes weren't emphazied enough .. The game was a little wired towards playing LS, because you felt like the new personalilty! I would've liked to be confronted with my past, in a painful way, so that I could feel remorse for what my former self had done! This would also gear you towards the final confrontation, a need to prove your self! It sounds like the new PC in TSL have a dark past as well, and hopefully this time we are giving the chance to redeem our exile, in a believable way! Although it's not shown, one could imagine that Revan perhaps wasn't so well greeted back in to society .. This could partially be the reason why he/she left again so quickly? hopefully Obsidian will repair the underdeveloped character who was Revan .. one can only hope! Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfram Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 *shakes head sadly* only characters that sacrifice is obi and vader? we wonder if leia would agree. she were tortured and saw her home planet destroyed, no? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And what happened to Bastila? She was also tortured and had what was effectively her home on Dantooine destroyed. She will also have to live (if she does live) with the memory of having become everything she dedicated her life to fighting. All to save the man largely responsible for the near destruction of the Jedi Order and the republic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> bastilla FAILS... she succumbs to malak's torture. you not recall that? and as to dantooine being destroyed, did anybody here feels bad for her when that happened? did she seem as if she were really saddened by such things? 'course maybe you can argue that as a jedi she would not show emotion... but did you, the reader feel particularly bad 'bout dantooine? is just one of the examples of bad writing in kotor. heck, unlike leia who is told that "in a way" she has chosen aldderan to be destroyed, you find out that dantooine is glassed regardless... has nothing to do with you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You were talking about sacrifice, not success or failure. You cannot dispute that Bastila did show willingness for heroic sacrifice when she allowed the PC to escape from Malak. As for success or failure, accusing Bastila of failure is like accusing the spartans of failing at Thermopylae. She was a young and low ranking Jedi who would never have any chance of resisting the dark lord of the sith even in the best of times. Her "failure" just made her sacrifice greater, for she gave up not just her life but her soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Of course. Anakin-padawan lost with 80-years old Dooku who was a Sith Lord. Anakin! Humans show true talent in the Force after 20 years old. Earlier they are limited by their age, and Bastila was 17-19 years old (assuming that she wasn't much older than Mission) Bastila was still padawan, and none padawan even so gifted one, cannot be a match for a Dark Lord. Not to mention that she and Revan were tortured by Karath and tired by slaining entire Leviathan crew - while Malak ambushed them with fresh energy He was an impossible loser, and few years later when Bastila would be a full-fledged knight, she would wipe floor with him easily (like Anakin will do with Dooku in EIII). It is the same analogy as with Dooku-Anakin. Anakin was more powerful but Dooku was more experienced. Here Bastila was more powerful and gifted, but Malak was more experienced and rested. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 A heroic sacrifice that is not needed is not a heroic sacrifice. It is just a waste. Most people were wiping the floor against Malak so there was no need for Bastila to sacrifice herself, yet Bioware scripted it such. It was very annoying and very implausible. Bioware should have known better by now for it was a fairly amateurish design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nartwak Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, what can one expect from a Bioware game? MacGuffins, fetch quests and contrived plot devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 A heroic sacrifice that is not needed is not a heroic sacrifice. It is just a waste. Most people were wiping the floor against Malak so there was no need for Bastila to sacrifice herself, yet Bioware scripted it such. It was very annoying and very implausible. Bioware should have known better by now for it was a fairly amateurish design. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The scenario would have worked better if Bastila's intervention had been prompted by you being beaten to the point of death instead of him; they should have made him virtually impossible to beat for someone of your level, but as it stood after that fight you felt both cheated out of a victory by Bastila's idiotic meddling and felt nothing but contempt for the threat posed by Malak. If I've already effortlessly crushed the end boss well before the climax of the game, why, precisely, am I worried about facing him later on? As I recall, the exact same thing happened with Bodhi in Baldur's Gate 2. She kept trying to be threatening, but after effortlessly spanking her in the graveyard catacombs beneath Athkatla, I could never again take her seriously as an enemy. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Bioware's major fault is level pacing. Such as that whole thing withthe Leviathon should have happened at 9th to 10th level. Malak, being a 20th level bugger with supposedly hellish lightsaber uberness would be easily take out a 10th level character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Satasn Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I agree lol, Malak was SOOOOO Easy to beat on the Leviathin, but then on the Star Forge he was so harder to beat, even tho my character was stronger than the first time we fought..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, they had the cheese factor with his captured Jedi power ups. Overall malak was never a hard opponent. Just a cheesy one, but what can we expect from Bioware nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethCarrots Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 hmmm the fact that on manaan i could not fight my way of the planet, that seriosly bugged me, an rpg is about choice there was no choice in that situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifthransir Bane Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 It's very good point that Revans past crimes weren't emphazied enough .. The game was a little wired towards playing LS, because you felt like the new personalilty! I would've liked to be confronted with my past, in a painful way, so that I could feel remorse for what my former self had done! This would also gear you towards the final confrontation, a need to prove your self!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed completely. We heard about bad stuff Malak did, but didn't hear anything evil that Revan did after assuming the mantle other than attack the republic. I suppose you could say that he/she looked really evil, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QalOrt Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I wanted Sith Soldiers to follow me after i told Uthar i was Revan. also i want more sith troops on Korriban it is the sith Necropolis after all. Sell zalbar and juhani in to slavery. Nuke Manana. Find out why there were mandalorians on Unknown World and why they would not ally with me if per say they saw Canderous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASTER Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I wanted Sith Soldiers to follow me after i told Uthar i was Revan. also i want more sith troops on Korriban it is the sith Necropolis after all. Sell zalbar and juhani in to slavery. Nuke Manana. Find out why there were mandalorians on Unknown World and why they would not ally with me if per say they saw Canderous. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yaa, same here me, just add the fact that you can kill any one on site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorfin Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 First thing I would have done as sith lord is destroy manaan, those fish people are so annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Not being able to kill carth and not being able to corrupt my minions. Yaw devs, Yaw!!! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Not being able to kill carth and not being able to corrupt my minions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You could kill Carth. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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