Light Side Powers

[Exar_Kun]

I never used speed or valor or any of those....what do they do exactly? I never figured it out.....

force speed Im used to is the jk games and u dont run any faster in kotor when u use it....and valor never made sense to me hah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greatest advantage of Master speed was not running faster. It added +6 to your defense and two extra attacks per round. Master valor added +4 (+6 maybe?) to defense, and +4 to all your saving throws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

valor just added +6 to all ur saving throws, not defense, that was force aura.

 

and no, LS shouldn't have offensive powers. if u upgrade force push and stun to level three, have a decent modifier on ur wis and char, and also if ur a consular you get the added points to DC. so basically after these powers are cast ur opponents are sitting ducks and u get a little damage from the force push tree to boot. at the end of kotor i force stormed malak to death with almost 100% success, those sleepy jedi couldn't save him.

[213374U]

valor just added +6 to all ur saving throws, not defense, that was force aura.

Err... Master Valor added +5 to saving throws AND attributes. Force Armor added +6 to defense and saving throws. That's it.

[Sorall Loskannen]

Master Speed actually made you run faster. I always got the speed powers as soon as possible so I could get through the Dune Sea, Kashyyyk, and Manaan faster. Actually I ran everywhere with it.

 

As for the lightsiders getting offensive powers. Again... no.

 

Lightsiders should be at a disadvantage when they fight because it is their choice to be good. I also think that you should get DS points for using darkside force powers, but it doesn't really matter.

 

The whole concept is similar to Ninja vs Samurai ideals (not saying Ninja are bad). The Samurai will either attack an army with army of his own to kill the leader, or challenge the leader to a duel. The ninja would sneek into the guy's house in the middle of the night, kill him while he slept, and then go home. The Samurai has a set of rules to abide by that are dictated by honour, but the Ninja's only rule is to get the job done.

[SilverSun]

I've always been one that believed it wasn't so much the Power used as the reasons why it was used. I.E. Luke and Force Choke in ROTJ,however that's subjective.

 

Lightsiders should be at a disadvantage when they fight because it is their choice to be good.

 

LS isn't at a disadvantage really,the right set of LS powers make the DS power damn near useless.

 

All a matter of playing style though.

[213374U]

I've always been one that believed it wasn't so much the Power used as the reasons why it was used. I.E. Luke and Force Choke in ROTJ,however that's subjective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. Not only he used the Force to harm others, but it was totally unwarranted. He choked them to get them out of his way. I guess the GM awarded Luke a good set of DS points for that...

[SilverSun]

 

Now I'm going to have to go back and watch that scene in slow Mo and watch for a little screen coming up that says:Dark Side Points Gained.

 

I don't know if it was unwarranted though. I know the Force can have an contorl of the weak minded,but can it do so over a moronic Pig? He obvioulsy had to do it.

[rika]

No, I don't believe they should add offensive LS Force powers since there were some pretty damaging neutral powers like Force Wave.

 

I hope there is a new LS defensive power like Deflection or Force absorption.

[SilverSun]

Wouldn't mind seeing an absorption power.

[Sorall Loskannen]

Absorb energy would be a great power, but it should be similar to the books and replenish the character's force points when used successfully.

 

I would also like to see the ability to levitate objects (a neutral power), which could be incorporated into various puzzles. And for Darkside people, attacks with levitated objects as a darkside power.

 

For lightside, a power specifically to fight force ghosts would be interesting, but probably impractical (probably not many to contend with).

[SilverSun]

I would also like to see the ability to levitate objects (a neutral power), which could be incorporated into various puzzles. And for Darkside people, attacks with levitated objects as a darkside power.

 

Why would that be considered dark? Even in an attack that seems more neutral then anything. Could be used for Def just as much as an out right attack.

 

Being pushed into a corner,grab and object and use it hit the person/group so you can remove yourself from a tight situation. Not like Jedi as so passive that they'd allow themselves to be cornered without a fight.

[Sorall Loskannen]

I said it would be dark because I think that is how it's done in the pen and paper game. And to avoid a lightside vs darkside of the force debate, it is simply because it causes harm to another being. In the pen and paper game, using force push on a living being gives DS points if it injures them. I could be wrong, I play D6 but have browsed the D20 rules. Anyone who knows feel free to comment on this.

[SilverSun]

The rules of the game are only based off the D20,not an exact copy but I see your reasoning if you're basing it off that.

 

Personally as I said before,I think it's how and why but for purpose of the game it's not like lighting which part of the reason behind using it is the pain it causes. Jedi kill and hurt people with Sabers, I don't see a difference between that and hitting them with a UFO.

[severxsever]

Using the force to harm living or sentient beings is a darkside action. Given the level of sophistication of many of the SW robots, I'd say that there should be no differentiation betwen mechanical sentience or biological sentience.

 

This does put the lightside at something of a disadvantage overall, yes, though. Lightside forcepower selection will be up to the task in a duel with the darkside, certainly, but it won't be as effective in taking on more mundane and numerous enemies.

 

In part, I think this... uneven balance of power stems from the overavailability of all force powers. I'm excruciatingly tired of seeing run-of-the-mill dark jedi apprentices and masters choke like Vader and electrocute like Palpatine. Leave the super-ueber genocidal force powers to the galactic force prodigies, thanks.

[Azure79]

Hmm.

 

What's the difference between using dark side power to destroy an enemy or stasis fielding enemies and then cutting them down with a lightsaber.

 

Both ways seem pretty harmful to me.

 

If someone is out to kill you should be able to protect yourself right? Moral ambiguity aside, if a Sith warrior comes at you shooting lightning out of their hands, the last thing a jedi will be thinking is, "Will I get DS points for force pushing this guy?"

[SilverSun]

DSers enjoy the pain and death they cause,that's part of why they cause it.

 

LSers also cause pain and death but don't do so for the joy of pain and death.

 

Which is part of why I think it's more how and why something is done more then what is done.

 

 

If Jedi were around IRL there'd be a huge mess because unlike SW were the good guys and bad guys are so easily seen,things in the real world aren't so black and white.

[random evil guy]

Absorb energy would be a great  power, but it should be similar to the books and replenish the character's force points when used successfully.

 

I would also like to see the ability to levitate objects (a neutral power), which could be incorporated into various puzzles. And for Darkside people, attacks with levitated objects as a darkside power.

 

For lightside, a power specifically to fight force ghosts would be interesting, but probably impractical (probably not many to contend with).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

absorb could be a power exclusive to jedi masters; so they're the onlye ones able to absorb dark side force powers. kind of like yoda vs. dooku in ep.2...

[GhostofAnakin]

IMO, the LS shouldn't have offensive powers, since by definition the LS is used "for knowledge and defense, never for attack".

[severxsever]

The distinction that Jedi philosophy seems to make between killing with the Force and killing through other means is a minute one, but it does have some validity to it.

 

Remember that the Force is not a passive entity simply waiting to be drawn upon by some enterprising Sith or Jedi; it is an active thing. The lure of the Darkside expresses itself through a tangible sense of yearning, a need to use the Force in whatever fashion one wills its use. Giving in to this yearning not only rationalizes further such abuses in the Force User's conscious mind, it fundamentally alters the most basic levels of the psyche and the concept of morality specific to the individual.

 

Generally, I tend to end posts on the ascending drafts of bizarre uptempos, but I'll add this bit of fluff to give this post some shaky sense of completion.

[SilverSun]

True,but the reasons why still come into play.

 

Lashing out in anger with Force Lighting or lashing out in anger with your saber is still lashing out in anger and it's the anger,not the saber nor the force that will lead to the DS.

 

Using your saber to defend your life or someone elses and using the Force to do the same might still end with someone's death but death and pain were not the reason for the use of your saber or the Force,the protection of life was.

[severxsever]

Again, I must reiterate that the force is not simply a mundane weapon like a blade, a blaster, or a lightsaber. It is alive in many ways. When one uses it in certain ways -- to do harm, for instance -- the force itself reinforces such actions in the Force user's mind.

[SilverSun]

I understand that,but if the person's reason behind using the Force in such a way that someone dies is the protection of life,where's the negative reinforcement come in?

 

It's kind of like the difference between swinging first in a fight and hitting someone who attacks you. If someone is attacking you/an innocent and the Force is used to stop that,it's not an attack it's not an aggressive move,it's the response to an aggressive move.

 

Now if the attack is stopped and you're still blasting lighting(just as an example) into someone who's on the ground and not a threat then a line has been crossed.

 

Not to mention the Force feeds off anger,so lashing out with a Saber might not be as a big of a risk as doing so with the Force,but it is still a threat. In the end the emotion and reasoning behind the action count for a lot.

Edited November 15, 2004 by SilverSun

[severxsever]

You're still not taking into consideration the fundamental point of my previous posts. The mindset of an attack may be good and pure, but if that attack is made with the force -- the all-consuming, alien entity -- the attacker is changed, through no intention of his own, both in his body and essence. The tangible decay that the bodies of Darksiders undergo as the fall farther into the Darkside is evidence enough of this.

[Azazel005]

They also talk a lot about lightning for instance as a gross mutation of the force, the act in itslef despite it's intention being road to the dark side.

 

You can't use the force as your weapon if you are a Jedi period. It is your ally and affords you protection enlightment and skill, but to use it to strike at another is the dark path.

[SilverSun]

You're still not taking into consideration the fundamental point of my previous posts. The mindset of an attack may be good and pure, but if that attack is made with the force -- the all-consuming, alien entity -- the attacker is changed, through no intention of his own, both in his body and essence. The tangible decay that the bodies of Darksiders undergo as the fall farther into the Darkside is evidence enough of this.

 

The Force is needed in order to use a Saber,least for the most part which why very few non-jedi ever do. When you use your saber you are using the Force,if you strike someone down with your saber the Force played a role in that just as much as if you used the force to push them,or lighting or whatever. It's the emotion that the Force feeds off,it's the emotion that Force used to change the person,which is why the Jedi are taught nor to strike in anger,not lash out in hate or fear or Revenge because those emotions are what allow the Force to take over the Jedi and lead them down the path. If your emotions are in check,then the Force can't just wisk you away down the Dark Path,I.E. Luke and the Choke in ROTJ.

 

You can't use the force as your weapon if you are a Jedi period. It is your ally and affords you protection enlightment and skill, but to use it to strike at another is the dark path.

 

If you use the Force for aggression it's DS,not if you use it as a weapon because a weapon is as much Def as it Off. A weapon not only attacks but a weapon defends.

 

Using the Force to protect life,long as you're in check and your strike is meant for Def either of yourself or someone else,is not the same as striking someone for no reason or doing so with aggression.

 

It's a very fine line because it can turn very quickly from one to the other in an instant. You can be trying to defend someone,they get hurt and anger takes over and it's not longer about Def but revenge. But there is a line there based on the emotions of the person doing the action.

[Azazel005]

Sorry Silver but there is no line, if you use the force in offense directly it's dark side. The fact that the force affords you the skill to wield a saber in a offensive way is not the same as drawing on the force itself to strike at your enemies. Sometimes it gets ambigous, is to throw a rock at an enemy using the rock or the force? or is disabling an enemy so as to pass by him unharmed by choking him for an instant with the force an attack? But it has been made clear as daylight that to strike at someone with force lightning is dark beyond intention.

 

Luke's actions in ROTJ where not the actions of a refined master. With more learning and experience he would not have struck him in such a way.