Expanding the Audience

[Aaron Contreras]

Got just enough time in between school and work to get into a caffeine-fueled rant.

 

The potential audience for video games (PC or console) has expanded wildly in the last decade. I think this motivates the game industry to do two things: create games that target a wider audience and have the gameplay in those titles cater to the casual gamer.

 

You could also say that the industry is pushed towards taking less risks and pumping out more sequels and clones...but I don't think more people playing games is necessarily the cause of this. Higher cost of development, more competition and industry consolidation is probably to blame there.

 

At any rate, I'm pretty excited about a wider audience. My personal pipe dream is to be involved in a story-based title that appeals to a wide audience and has nothing to do with dragons, dungeons or Mr. Spock. A hybrid Sim-RPG that lets you play around as the owner of a small independent music label, semi-educational products that entertain while teaching history or showcase pieces of art. Or, to flip it around, make the nerd stuff cooler: create a cold war scenario in the Forgotten Realms, or use SoCal punk rock and Flemish paintings as the flavor and feel of a fantasy RPG.

 

Some might say that a wider audience is going to dumb games down. Yeah, BG3 and Fallout 3 were cancelled and replaced - in some way - by the Xbox titles. But as Gromnir pointed out on the Planescape license thread, there is no reason you cannot inject great ideas, gameplay and story into a setting that appeals to a wide audience. KoToR sold well initially because of the massive Star Wars brand and the lack of RPG competition on the Xbox...but it has continued to sell well because it is a good game that people enjoy, regardless of the setting or platform.

 

I'm honestly a little surprised that the game industry hasn't adapted faster already. I think there is a lot of money to be made hitting that sweet spot between art and audience appeal.

[Karzak]

A wider audience means putting diablo in the game to most developers it seems, good for sales maybe, but bad for game quality.

[Aaron Contreras]

Diablo and Diablo II were both awesome games. Hell, Diablo II popped up on the top ten charts a few months ago - years after it was initially published. Sure you aren't just being snarky and overly subjective? I may not enjoy the latest Zelda, but it is still a damn good game.

 

**Edit: And trust me, I hate Diablo II with the fervent passion only someone who has tested it can have.**

[Xindell]

 

Popular doesn't necessarily mean awesome, imho. Just because it's sold well doesn't take away from the fact that the content is ka-ka.

[Araanor]

A wider audience means putting diablo in the game to most developers it seems, good for sales maybe, but bad for game quality.

Good for sales you say. Diablo had massive sales, that's a given. Now, name one Diablo-clone that sold well.

[Karzak]

A wider audience means putting diablo in the game to most developers it seems, good for sales maybe, but bad for game quality.

Good for sales you say. Diablo had massive sales, that's a given. Now, name one Diablo-clone that sold well.

NWN

[TentamusDarkblade]

not to rain on any parades, but Kotor failed to meet it's projected sales goals. It was considered to be "too heady, not enough action" for a broad appeal. It was Critically acclaimed, but not consumer acclaimed.

 

Reaching broad audience bases is a great idea, but it makes you walk a very fine line. Too much action and you loose the strategic players, too much story and dialogue interaction and you lose the action crowd, etc.

 

I think games need to cater to a genre and do that well. Instead of answering to 2 audiences and try to make a action/rpg hybrid (or what have you). you'd be better off making an Action game that delivers eveything the action crowd wants. You have a smaller sales base, but sales over time will show a profit.

 

just my 2 cents

[Karzak]

not to rain on any parades, but Kotor failed to meet it's projected sales goals. It was considered to be "too heady, not enough action" for a broad appeal.

I don't know if that is true or not, but the combat in JA was much more fun than in KotOR, and in a combat heavy game like KotOR fun combat is important.

[Phoenix]

not to rain on any parades, but Kotor failed to meet it's projected sales goals.

Anyone can verify that?.

[Iolo]

Where did you get that idea from Tentamus? There were news articles about KOTOR selling 200,000 if not more within a few days or at most a week or two. It's a very big seller and I can't see how it did less than projections. If anything, it widely exceeded them.

[Volourn]

Unless someone was expected it to sell Diablo numbers which, of course, would be ludricrous.

[Karzak]

Unless someone was expected it to sell Diablo numbers which, of course, would be ludricrous.

Unless that is what they told the money men.

 

"looky, we got a good SW game!

[Phoenix]

From the latest NPD report for January 2004, KoTOR is still in the TOP 10 with price tag = $43:

 

1) The Sims: Makin' Magic Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts $26

2) Call Of Duty - Activision $48

3) The Sims Deluxe - Electronic Arts $20

4) MS Age Of Mythology - Microsoft $34

5) MS Zoo Tycoon: Complete Collection - Microsoft $30

6) Grand Theft Auto: Vice City - Rockstar Games (Take 2) $22

7) Delta Force Black Hawk Down: Team Sabre Expansion Pack - NovaLogic $20

The Sims Double Deluxe - Electronic Arts $40

9) Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic - LucasArts $43

10) Halo: Combat Evolved - Microsoft $41

 

What sales target BIOWARE going for?.

[Iolo]

9th place? What a disappointment. Couldn't even beat all those Sims games. But then what possibly can.

[Phoenix]

No one supposed to beat the Sims games ^_^. At least we have one RPG title. Last year Morrowind also last quite long, total sales (PC & console) with all the expansions gone beyond 500,000, probably nearing one million or more.

[Iolo]

Yes, the sales aren't disappointing by any means at all.

[Karzak]

The rankings don't really show sales numbers. Its above Halo, which was released when? October?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

not to rain on any parades, but Kotor failed to meet it's projected sales goals. It was considered to be "too heady, not enough action" for a broad appeal. It was Critically acclaimed, but not consumer acclaimed.

 

Reaching broad audience bases is a great idea, but it makes you walk a very fine line. Too much action and you loose the strategic players, too much story and dialogue interaction and you lose the action crowd, etc.

Woah I'd love to know what sales goals they set for the game..

 

They seemed overjoyed with it if the press release was anything to go by.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Here are some numbers. Thank Bobbin for them and make of them what you will.

 

GameState takes a look at units sold for the 20 best singular examples for certain franchises.

 

 

1. "The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time" for N64: 6 Million Units

2. "Halo" for Xbox: 2+ Million Units

3. "Metroid Prime" for GameCube: 1+ Million Units

4. "Super Mario 64" for N64: 11 Million Units

5. "Tetris" for Gameboy: 32 Million Units

6. "Street Fighter Alpha 3" for GBA: 30,000+ Units (This was one the editor liked)

7. "Deus Ex" for PC: 500,000+ Units

8. "Mario Kart Super Circuit" for GBA: 500,000+ Units

9. "Neverwinter Nights" for PC: 1 Million Units

10. "Civilization III" for PC: 2 Million Units

11. "Grand Theft Auto" for PS2: 8.5 Million Units

12. "Metal Gear Solid 2" for PS2: 5 Million Units

13. "Gran Turismo 3" for PS2: 7 Million Units

14. "Half-Life" for PC: 8 Million Units

15. "Tempest 3000" for Nuon: 20,000+ Units

16. "Shenmue II" for Dreamcast: 100,000 Units

17. "Rez" for PS2: 100,000+ Units

18. "Elite" for BBC Micro: 600,000 Units

19. "Radiant Silvergun" for Sega Saturn: 50,000 Units

20. "The Secret of Monkey Island 2" for PC: 500,000 Units

 

1. "Super Mario Bros." for NES: 40 Million Units

2. "Tetris" for Gameboy: 33 Million Units

3. "Super Mario Bros. 3" for NES: 18 Million Units

4. "Super Mario World" for SNES: 17 Million Units

5. "Super Mario Land" for Gameboy: 14 Million Units

6. "Super Mario 64" for N64: 11 Million Units

7. "The Sims" for PC: 10 Million Units

8. "Super Mario Bros. 2" for NES: 10 Million Units

9. "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" for PS2: 8.5 Million Units

10. "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" for PSX: 8 Million Units

11. "GoldenEye" for N64: 8 Million Units

12. "Donkey Kong Country" for SNES: 8 Million Units

13. "Super Mario Kart" for SNES: 8 Million Units

14. "Pokemon Red/Blue" for Gameboy: 8 Million Units

15. "Half-Life" for PC: 8 Million Units

16. "Tomb Raider II" for PSX: 8 Million Units

17. "Final Fantasy VII" for PSX: 7.8 Million Units

18. "Myst" for PC: 7 Million Units

19. "Gran Turismo 3" for PS2: 7 Million Units

20. "Dragon Warrior VII" for PS2: 6 Million Units

[Raymondo2000]

God! Why do you have to come here SP? Why cant you guys just stay where you belong, on the interplay forum?

[Gromnir]

according to some news sources, kotor for xbox broke all kinds of initial sales records. within first 2 weeks, kotor had sold over 270,000 units... in fact, the initial release effectively sold out within the first week. publisher was scrambling to make more copies to meet demand.

 

on this board, an obsidian employee responded to a querry 'bout kotor pc sales... said that pc totals for kotor pc had reached 500,000 by the end of the year. kotor pc had only been on shelves since november.

 

...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aaron Contreras]

Okay, so KoToR was not a failure. Anyone else excited or nervous about games that aren't targeted towards teenage males?

[Sammael]

I am utterly uninterested in games made for the dreaded "general public." The general public also enjoys soap operas, Fabio novels, Jerry Springer's "show," WWF wrestling, and The Titanic. I simply do not share any tastes with them.

[Tigranes]

Bioware's a RPG developer that's one of the giants of the genre, is only around 6-7 years old, and manages to stay afloat, hire people, fund multiple projects and resist draconian outside intervention during development for the most part. That in all means Bioware must garner at least decent sales in its games. BGs, NWN, KoTOR have been the big games from them, and while they are fairly mainstream, especially compared to, say, Looking Glass / BIS, they're not as far down that road as something like Diablo or Halo is. Bioware makes games that cater to a fairly wide audience, getting enough sales to sit in a comfortable financial position - where they can fund ambitious projects like NWN (which was very ambitious, even if you think it's crap). Bioware will continue to prosper and produce games for some time, which is great if you like their games...

 

now, if you think Bioware games are total tripe compared to your favourites like, oh, say, Fallout and PS:T (and I myself do value the said games more), hoping for Bioware to go more niche than they are would be hoping for a BIS, something that probably wont happen. And if you hate their games saying something like "NWN has Diablo combat", "I want PS:T Story", then I'm unsure as to what company would carry on with a BIS-style game development. Obsidian surely isn't likely to go as nich

[LlamaGod]

Last I remember, "Horrible linear RPGs with real-time combat based on a system that didnt have real-time combat" wasnt a niche.