Ukraine Conflict - Continues

[kanisatha]

3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

MQ-9 is capable of being armed with Sidewinders. We should try that.

Their Hellfires would work just fine too, especially at very close range.

[Mamoulian War]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

A Russian drone getting knocked out of the sky ? I guess the same whining we have now and not much else  Russia had a pilot get shot down and didn't nuke Turkey, after all.

Nah, we all pretty much know, that the Queens of Whining are by large margin Russian officials

[BruceVC]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrant-against-putin-over-alleged-war-crimes-2023-03-17/

Putin has an ICC warrant against him for war crimes, its belated but better late than never 

 

[Malcador]

16 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Nah, we all pretty much know, that the Queens of Whining are by large margin Russian officials

Debatable, they don't seem to do it that long.

Neat bit of detective work

[HoonDing]

I want to see Putin on ICC. Along with BIden, Oboma, Bush, Cheney, Kissinger and the entire EU cabal.

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

I want to see Putin on ICC. Along with BIden, Oboma, Bush, Cheney, Kissinger and the entire EU cabal.

The ICC doesnt work like that, they get brought potential cases and there prosecutors assess the evidence and then make a decision, they dont decide on ideologically biased reasons like you suggesting

Countries that are not part of the ICC means you cannot charge people with ICC war crimes that were alleged to have occured within that country , that includes Iraq  which is not a signatory to the ICC and Afghanistan which needs to ratify its legal agreement. So you cant charge the likes of Bush or Blair with war crimes at the ICC for these conflicts

https://www.aba-icc.org/about-the-icc/states-parties-to-the-icc/

[Malcador]

13 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

they dont decide on ideologically biased reasons like you suggesting

The fact you think Kissinger, Bush and others would be there only on "ideologically biased" reasons is gold.

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, HoonDing said:

I want to see Putin on ICC. Along with BIden, Oboma, Bush, Cheney, Kissinger and the entire EU cabal.

What about Clinton?

[Zoraptor]

Clinton, everyone involved in the School of the Americas or Talon Anvil, the Brits for Diego Garcia and Kenya, the French for Algeria etc etc.

There's a reason the US won't cooperate providing evidence. Euros probably will, they actually believe their own press.

5 hours ago, Malcador said:

A Russian drone getting knocked out of the sky ? I guess the same whining we have now and not much else  Russia had a pilot get shot down and didn't nuke Turkey, after all.

Turkey also got a plane shot down by Syria early on in the civil war and did SFA. Pretty demonstrably hit in Syrian airspace though since even the US said it was AAA used.

More pertinently, the US has repeatedly shot down Syrian drones in Syria's airspace when they get too close to their occupation forces.

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Countries that are not part of the ICC means you cannot charge people with ICC war crimes that were alleged to have occured within that country that includes Iraq  which is not a signatory to the ICC and Afghanistan which needs to ratify its legal agreement.

Anyone care to guess which other country hasn't ratified its membership? Hint: it starts with 'U' and ends with 'kraine'.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

29 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Anyone care to guess which other country hasn't ratified its membership? Hint: it starts with 'U' and ends with 'kraine'.

Well, they granted the ICC jurisdiction in 2014

https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine

"Ukraine is not a State Party to the Rome Statute, but it has twice exercised its prerogatives to accept the Court's jurisdiction over alleged crimes under the Rome Statute occurring on its territory, pursuant to article 12(3) of the Statute. The first declaration lodged by the Government of Ukraine accepted ICC jurisdiction with respect to alleged crimes committed on Ukrainian territory from 21 November 2013 to 22 February 2014. The second declaration extended this time period on an open-ended basis to encompass ongoing alleged crimes committed throughout the territory of Ukraine from 20 February 2014 onwards."

Is sort of funny regardless in a "Doesn't matter until it happens to me" kind of way.

 

[Zoraptor]

Yes, Bruce isn't wrong about jurisdiction, he's wrong about ratification* being necessary. Of course Bruce and wrong is a bit of a tautology anyway...

Indeed, Ukraine is in the exact same position as Afghanistan, which has an active investigation (well, last time I checked) despite not having ratified either.

*And indeed indeed you don't actually require the location/ target country to be a member either. eg the ICC rather tepidly investigating the Brits for the Iraq invasion, since the UK is a member.

[Lexx]

The fact Kissinger is still alive is proof that god doesn't exist.

[Mamoulian War]

One more opinion on ICC warrant

 

[Mamoulian War]

And little bit about the “discrepancies” in Hersch’s report about NS2.

 

 

 

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

The fact Kissinger is still alive is proof that god doesn't exist.

Henry Kissinger is the Forrest Gump of war crimes.

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, Lexx said:

The fact Kissinger is still alive is proof that god doesn't exist.

The US never joined the ICC… so they would never extradite him anyway (unless there was some domestic benefit to getting rid of him)

[Zoraptor]

Funniest thing about the ICC is watching people's heads explode when you point out Senior Senator D-Delaware (a certain Joe Biden) voted for the Hague Invasion Act. That rules based order, eh, Joe.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Sarex said:

What about Clinton?

What for, the Monica Lewinsky incident? Gee Im not a lawyer but I dont think that counts 

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Malcador said:

The fact you think Kissinger, Bush and others would be there only on "ideologically biased" reasons is gold.

Malc no need  to get angry with me because of how the ICC works. I dont control how evidence and cases brought forward are required 

But something else more interesting, Putins ICC warrant is about  the illegal deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin-war-crimes-icc-arrest-warrant-ukraine-children

Thats the war crime he is being charged with 

 

[Mamoulian War]

Another prominent Russian milblogger had a bad day. He is predicting that the historical events of 1917 will be repeating in a near future I never wished so much, that a Russian warmonger would be correct with his predictions

 

[kanisatha]

9 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Malc no need  to get angry with me because of how the ICC works. I dont control how evidence and cases brought forward are required 

But something else more interesting, Putins ICC warrant is about  the illegal deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin-war-crimes-icc-arrest-warrant-ukraine-children

Thats the war crime he is being charged with 

 

Yes, the specific crime he's being charged with matters very critically here, to note he's not being charged on the basis of the thousands of civilians tortured and killed by Russian forces in Ukraine. The ICC prosecutors clearly understand the legal distinction, even if others (some here in this forum, for example) don't understand this point.

[Malcador]

10 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Malc no need  to get angry with me because of how the ICC works. I dont control how evidence and cases brought forward are required 

But something else more interesting, Putins ICC warrant is about  the illegal deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin-war-crimes-icc-arrest-warrant-ukraine-children

Thats the war crime he is being charged with 

 

That's nothing to do with what I wrote though, but carry on.

[Mamoulian War]

Looks like Wagnerites are starting to find nazis in Russia as well. Using spoiler tag, due to very NSFW language.

Spoiler

 

 

[BruceVC]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/16/poland-arrests-nine-russian-saboteurs-trying-to-destroy-railway-lines-18455014/

@xzar_monty

We were just talking about Russia and their threat to the security of East European countrie, this happened in Poland. Im not sure if its been posted?

[xzar_monty]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:26 PM, Zoraptor said:

There's a reason the US won't cooperate providing evidence. Euros probably will, they actually believe their own press.

That's unnecessarily condescending, and too much of a generalization. "The Euros" and their press are much more heterogenous than you make them sound. A minor point, granted, but given that you tend to base much of what you write on knowledge, stuff like this looks less than convincing.

Edited March 19, 2023 by xzar_monty