Ukraine Conflict - "An empire founded by war has to maintain itself by war"

[Malcador]

Just now, BruceVC said:

Malc would you support us cancelling the WC and just letting Ukraine win?

I am honestly surprised they're not calling for that - people already hate Qatar as host due to human rights (skeptical most people claiming that actually give a toss), timing (whiny Euros) or not being able to drink or something.  Maybe should also make Zelensky the head of state of every country.

 

[kanisatha]

Here's a link for the story on Iranian foreign minister's statement on Iranian drones in Ukraine:

https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-says-it-will-not-remain-indifferent-if-proven-russia-uses-its-drones-2022-10-24/

I think the main reason for the spin is that preexisting UN arms sanctions on Iran would be violated by any Iranian arms shipments to Russia that are used in a conflict.

[Lexx]

The thing is, though, that Russia isn't using Iranian drones in the Ukraine. They are using the drones in official "Russian territory" to "defend" / attack areas "occupied" by Ukraine terrorist soldiers.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

Just now, Malcador said:

I am honestly surprised they're not calling for that - people already hate Qatar as host due to human rights (skeptical most people claiming that actually give a toss), timing (whiny Euros) or not being able to drink or something.  Maybe should also make Zelensky the head of state of every country.

 

Im just teasing  obviously 

Its going to be a good WC and the best teams must win through skill and ponts, the normal way. They have resolved the alcohol concern, they are going to have designated drinking areas

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-world-cup-alcohol-allowed-festival-venue

I have been to Qatar twice and its  a very well run country and the human rights concerns are a small part of all the positives the country offers

 

 

[Gfted1]

I wonder how the "West" slid into the position of dictating to every other country how their citizens should be living? I guess might makes right? We'll just bury them economically or through force until they do what we want.  Sucks to be them, Im glad I live in the powerful side. 

[BruceVC]

Just now, kanisatha said:

Here's a link for the story on Iranian foreign minister's statement on Iranian drones in Ukraine:

https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-says-it-will-not-remain-indifferent-if-proven-russia-uses-its-drones-2022-10-24/

I think the main reason for the spin is that preexisting UN arms sanctions on Iran would be violated by any Iranian arms shipments to Russia that are used in a conflict.

Then Iran must act immediately because the Ukrainians have shot down drones and they have identified the Iranian components and clear design. So I wonder what " indifferent " means to the Iranians 

It was on Sky or CNN?

 

[BruceVC]

Just now, Lexx said:

The thing is, though, that Russia isn't using Iranian drones in the Ukraine. They are using the drones in official "Russian territory" to "defend" / attack areas "occupied" by Ukraine terrorist soldiers.

You raise a good point and knowing Russian logic and doublespeak thats probably how they will spin it 

[xzar_monty]

15 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I have been to Qatar twice and its  a very well run country and the human rights concerns are a small part of all the positives the country offers

This, coupled with a remarkably flippant attitude on Saudis dismembering journalists, gives an impression of a particularly wholesome soul.

[Malcador]

12 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I guess might makes right?

Pretty much.  For some strange reason a lot of people in the West don't accept that as reality.

[xzar_monty]

16 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I wonder how the "West" slid into the position of dictating to every other country how their citizens should be living?

But that's not true. It is true that "the West" uses its domineering position in ways that are very questionable indeed, but this only pertains to certain aspects of life, society, economics and politics -- it's not even close to "dictating to every other country how their citizens should be living".

You may see this as nitpicking but I do seriously think that precision with language is valuable.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

30 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I am honestly surprised they're not calling for that - people already hate Qatar as host due to human rights (skeptical most people claiming that actually give a toss), timing (whiny Euros) or not being able to drink or something.  Maybe should also make Zelensky the head of state of every country.

 

Zelensky can be PM of Britain in two weeks after the government collapses again.

[BruceVC]

Just now, Malcador said:

Pretty much.  For some strange reason a lot of people in the West don't accept that as reality.

Might doesn't make right or the strongest military powers in the world would take anything they wanted from any country 

Thats why we have the UN and international law and why most countries respect sovereignty 

The world would be a much worse and unstable place if " might makes right " was practised 

 

[majestic]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

The world would be a much worse and unstable place if " might makes right " was practised 

 

[BruceVC]

Just now, xzar_monty said:

But that's not true. It is true that "the West" uses its domineering position in ways that are very questionable indeed, but this only pertains to certain aspects of life, society, economics and politics -- it's not even close to "dictating to every other country how their citizens should be living".

You may see this as nitpicking but I do seriously think that precision with language is valuable.

I think  Gfted1 is joking  Because its not the West that decides what is human rights or Democracy, these are created and enshrined in legal documents and Constitutions and maintained by institutions like the UN . And there are several countries that ignore human rights and dont care what the West says like China 

[Malcador]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The world would be a much worse and unstable place if " might makes right " was practised 

How so ?

[Mamoulian War]

42 minutes ago, Lexx said:

The thing is, though, that Russia isn't using Iranian drones in the Ukraine. They are using the drones in official "Russian territory" to "defend" / attack areas "occupied" by Ukraine terrorist soldiers.

Unless Putin signed annexation papers for Kyiv as well, they are still using it outside of their dream territories

[pmp10]

According the IMF Ukraine needs 3-5 billion $ per month over 2023.
This was already understood for some time and US (and even EC) has occasionally talked about moving from aid packages to regular subsidies. 

A good test if west has staying power in this war. 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

The thing is, though, that Russia isn't using Iranian drones in the Ukraine. They are using the drones in official "Russian territory" to "defend" / attack areas "occupied" by Ukraine terrorist soldiers.

Btw, this is an interesting point. I'm currently working on a project that deals with the Stalinist purges in the 1930s (among a whole lot of other things). It is both fascinating and astonishing to note how important it was to make everything proper and kosher from a legal standpoint. The double-think and/or cognitive dissonance is rather frightening to behold: on the one hand, many of the decisions are clearly mad and murderous, but on the other hand, an awful lot of care is taken so that everything looks legal and proper -- and even helpful and benign, done in the spirit of making the world a good place for everyone.

This continued to be true throughout the 1900s, with "brotherly assistance" signifying "occupation" and "murder", and it persists to this day.

Now, it is true that this is, to an extent, something that can be seen everywhere: anyone who's ever spent time in criminal court and listened to what is said there will know that the most innocent people in the world are found just there. But the degree to which this is true is particularly significant in the SU / Russia.

Edited October 25, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Mamoulian War]

9 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

According the IMF Ukraine needs 3-5 billion $ per month over 2023.
This was already understood for some time and US (and even EC) has occasionally talked about moving from aid packages to regular subsidies. 

A good test if west has staying power in this war. 

If these figures are correct, As soon, as they find a way, how to legally use seized Russian assets, they will be set to support Ukraine for the next 10 years.

[Malcador]

Just now, Mamoulian War said:

If these figures are correct, As soon, as they find a way, how to legally use seized Russian assets, they will be set to support Ukraine for the next 10 years.

I don't think they will.  Ukraine'll just have to suckle on the EU and US teat for a while.

[Raithe]

On other figures...

[Mamoulian War]

A video summary of 8 months of shelling of Kharkiv

 

[Gfted1]

42 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

According the IMF Ukraine needs 3-5 billion $ per month over 2023.
This was already understood for some time and US (and even EC) has occasionally talked about moving from aid packages to regular subsidies. 

A good test if west has staying power in this war. 

$60B / year is chump change.

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

I wonder how the "West" slid into the position of dictating to every other country how their citizens should be living? I guess might makes right? We'll just bury them economically or through force until they do what we want.  Sucks to be them, Im glad I live in the powerful side. 

The West is certainly not perfect, but the big difference is you can complain about the Western countries while living in those Western Countries and not get arrested by the Western governments. It's a pretty big difference. Also, habeas corpus.

[Malcador]

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/financial-war-and-its-discontents

Speaking of the assets.