The All Things Political Topic - Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

[Elerond]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes and he has been fined already for this infringement 

Why must he now also resign, Elerond in life and in politics we dont want to overreact to everything our politicians do if its not criminality 

Especially if they good at their job, Johnson has been the PM for 2 of the most difficult UK crisis ever seen in living memory. Both BREXIT and Corona he helped steer the UK through and he should get some political credit for that 

I dont remember you demanding your PM resign when she was caught clubbing during lockdowns?

Leaders that aren't able to follow their own rules usually lose respect and trust of people. So he is problem for his party currently

In politics we overreact always, that is how Johnson got prime minister in first place

People demanded that she resign, even though she didn't club during lockdowns, as lockdowns were already ended, her mistake was not having her official phone of prime minister with her (which is not actually required from her, but still it was seen so bad that she made in international news) because someone she had seen for minute was in contact with someone who tested positive to covid. Meaning that she didn't break any rules or restrictions, but people still saw that she should have done more. 

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Leaders that aren't able to follow their own rules usually lose respect and trust of people. So he is problem for his party currently

In politics we overreact always, that is how Johnson got prime minister in first place

People demanded that she resign, even though she didn't club during lockdowns, as lockdowns were already ended, her mistake was not having her official phone of prime minister with her (which is not actually required from her, but still it was seen so bad that she made in international news) because someone she had seen for minute was in contact with someone who tested positive to covid. Meaning that she didn't break any rules or restrictions, but people still saw that she should have done more. 

I suppose you right, its normal to overreact with politicians...its probably got to do with the general mistrust many  people have towards their politicians

And just for the record, I dont think your PM should have resigned. She made a mistake and it wouldnt have been fair or reasonable for her to resign over this incident 

 

[Zoraptor]

Our health minister was forced to resign for breaking covid rules- he drove too far from home to go mountain biking during a lockdown. Shouldn't really have been outright mountain biking either, since an accident --> emergency staff potentially being exposed needlessly.

Which is a lot more trivial than getting sloshed at someone's birthday with dozens of other people as bojo did- and then lying about in Parliament, which is what most of the people who voted against him will be really annoyed about, and is a resignation tier event. Certainly doesn't help that the tories have the stereotype of being a bunch of overbred toffs many of whom would embarrass a twit of the year competition, and think rules don't apply to them but only to the plebs. And you can't get around that by calling yourself Boris instead of Alexander de Pfeffel.

[BruceVC]

53 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Our health minister was forced to resign for breaking covid rules- he drove too far from home to go mountain biking during a lockdown. Shouldn't really have been outright mountain biking either, since an accident --> emergency staff potentially being exposed needlessly.

Which is a lot more trivial than getting sloshed at someone's birthday with dozens of other people as bojo did- and then lying about in Parliament, which is what most of the people who voted against him will be really annoyed about, and is a resignation tier event. Certainly doesn't help that the tories have the stereotype of being a bunch of overbred toffs many of whom would embarrass a twit of the year competition, and think rules don't apply to them but only to the plebs. And you can't get around that by calling yourself Boris instead of Alexander de Pfeffel.

Yes but with the amount of corruption and criminality ongoing in NZ, like the KFC smuggling cartel, you would expect NZ to demonstrate good governance. Your government has to redeem itself to its citizens 

You cant compare the UK to NZ and Johnson paid a fine so  lets  "not throw the baby out with the bathwater " 

[Chairchucker]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:10 AM, majestic said:

I have one comment: I haven't watched any of the videos, read anything about the trial, followed any tweets or happend across any other social media post of or about that trial, and the only thing that coiuld save me from being called a troglodyte by Ms. Lewinsky was reading a headline on the verdict the other day in the paper, and I do not think that counts against her definition. She then goes on about how everyone who is not a troglodyte in her eyes is guilty of making the world a worse place.

So, dear forum posters, which one are you? Are you a troglodyte, like me, living in a cave, being of a lesser ethnicity than Ms. Lewinsky, or are you a voyeur guilty of making the world the most toxic of places?

I think she's simply using troglodyte as a synonym for 'living under a rock'. Not 'lesser ethnicity' or whatever else you're trying to read into that.

[Malcador]

Well, it's usually used as an insult. Strange choice of words from Lewinsky.

What does Ja Rule think though?

[alanschu]

9 hours ago, BruceVC said:

You cant compare the UK to NZ and Johnson paid a fine so  lets  "not throw the baby out with the bathwater " 

It's a confidence vote among members of the government though? In fact his own party???

Weird stance to suggest that a politician, and party leader, lying in the House to save his own skin shouldn't face scrutiny from members of his own party who feel it's a sign of poor leadership lol.

Edited June 7, 2022 by alanschu

[BruceVC]

33 minutes ago, alanschu said:

It's a confidence vote among members of the government though? In fact his own party???

Weird stance to suggest that a politician, and party leader, lying in the House to save his own skin shouldn't face scrutiny from members of his own party who feel it's a sign of poor leadership lol.

Well he says he didnt lie because the 10 minutes he spent having 2 drinks he considered a social gathering or something similar 

And I tend to agree, 10 minutes and saying hi to people definitely isnt a party by my definition?

And its normal in UK politics for these votes of confidence when someone falls out of favor even if its not their fault like Theresa May.  His days are numbered but not right now 

[ShadySands]

People in positions of authority should be held to a higher standard, It's not that difficult. 

Rules for thee but not for me

[Malcador]

2 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

People in positions of authority should be held to a higher standard, It's not that difficult. 

Rules for thee but not for me

We need that here, forum mods can post in closed threads but we can't ? I demand @Gorgon resign and be replaced by @Totally not Gorgon

[Gfted1]

"Theres no molehill that cant be made into a mountain.", ancient proverb, probably.

I wish Biden and Harris would sit down, have a drink, and get some s**t done.

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

People in positions of authority should be held to a higher standard, It's not that difficult. 

Rules for thee but not for me

Yes and their were various pandemic restrictions and laws, outside the US, in countries like SA and UK that very few people adhered to and everyone I know broke the " no social gatherings " 

But I remember our politicians always got called out despite the majority of us citizens  doing the same thing 

But in the UK Johnson insisted on Downing Street being open and everyone in his cabinet had to work and they did even before we had the benefit  of vaccines. So while  everyone got to sit at home in the beginning  the essential services, like his cabinet, worked and people got sick and some people died. He nearly died 

The UK media is having a feeding frenzy over Partygate but they were fine when he was working but suddenly a " party" for the same people who work together 24/7 is considered such a unacceptable event 

Do you see how  the outrage isnt really fair ?

 

 

[Totally not Gorgon]

21 minutes ago, Malcador said:

We need that here, forum mods can post in closed threads but we can't ? I demand @Gorgon resign and be replaced by @Totally not Gorgon

I'm not sure 

[Gorgon]

22 minutes ago, Malcador said:

We need that here, forum mods can post in closed threads but we can't ? I demand @Gorgon resign and be replaced by @Totally not Gorgon

that's possible 

[ShadySands]

11 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Do you see how  the outrage isnt really fair ?

Nope

[BruceVC]

37 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Nope

You dont think that if you part of essential services and you working in an office 24/7 with a group of people having a party with those same people makes no difference to virus exposure because you already exposed because you seeing those same people everyday ?

In other words the UK banned social gatherings because of the highly transmissible nature of the virus. But its irrelevant if you have to work everyday with people because what difference does a party make with those same people?

[ShadySands]

Bruce, no matter how you try to reframe it my answer remains the same

[majestic]

Fascist gonna fascist. The Führer can do no wrong, and rules don't apply to them.

Edited June 7, 2022 by majestic

[Gfted1]

14 minutes ago, majestic said:

Fascist gonna fascist. The Führer can do no wrong, and rules don't apply to them.

This should help you sleep. Boris Johnson fined by police over lockdown-breaking parties at UK government premises - CNN

[Malcador]

Wonder who the successor will be.  I'm rooting for Truss.

[Zoraptor]

The serious answer is probably the guy who lost to Boris in the leadership vote, whose name escapes me. He certainly seems to be positioning himself for it.

Top three meme picks: Truss, Rees-Mogg, Evil Harry Potter

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes and their were various pandemic restrictions and laws, outside the US, in countries like SA and UK that very few people adhered to and everyone I know broke the " no social gatherings " 

But I remember our politicians always got called out despite the majority of us citizens  doing the same thing

Maybe because those politicians partied, celebrated, got drunk and broke the laws knowingly while the majority of citizens were paying their wages? If an employee of mine were that untrustworthy, I would get rid of him. Remember PM's are there not to rule the people but to serve the people (a fact often forgotten)

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, majestic said:

Fascist gonna fascist. The Führer can do no wrong, and rules don't apply to th

em.

I thought we were in agreement you weren't going to play the " hes a fascist\nazi" card unless its true and their is evidence 

And do you know why we dont like to play this card? Its undermines real examples of fascism because words like fascism have a specific  definition in the English language 

And when you do this in any society this means people dont respond in the same way to this type of bigotry when its true because it gets overused and its like crying wolf 

But dont think Im suggesting you cant criticize people or politicians, just try to do it accurately 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Maybe because those politicians partied, celebrated, got drunk and broke the laws knowingly while the majority of citizens were paying their wages? If an employee of mine were that untrustworthy, I would get rid of him. Remember PM's are there not to rule the people but to serve the people (a fact often forgotten)

Interesting point, were all citizens in Oz told they had to come to work during the 2 years of the virus. In SA most of us sat at home and only essential services had to work in the office 

So in the case of SA and our public sector most people didnt have to come to work. Not all citizens did have to pay their wages because if you  were not expected to work in an office its not the same as people who were told " you must be at work " 

[Gorth]

29 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Interesting point, were all citizens in Oz told they had to come to work during the 2 years of the virus. In SA most of us sat at home and only essential services had to work in the office 

So in the case of SA and our public sector most people didnt have to come to work. Not all citizens did have to pay their wages because if you  were not expected to work in an office its not the same as people who were told " you must be at work " 

I'm not really sure how this is relevant... to anything?

 

You saying it's Ok for politicians to be above the law and break it when they feel like partying on the tax payers dollar?

Or not?

And knowingly lie about it, trying to deceive said tax payers?

His party colleagues may not be concerned at all about the ethics involved, but have some real concern about how it affects marginal seats in coming local and nationwide elections. The voters will punish the party as they see fit in coming elections, but...

Would the conservative members be right in doing what is best for Boris or the best for the covid conservative party?

 

edit: For comparison, an ordinary Australian doing the same stunt as Boris can (or could in 2020 & 2021) face up to 6 months behind bars and a $13000 fine, which is for many people like a fifth of their gross annual income. No, not feeling sorry for politicians being held accountable for criminal behaviour.