Ukraine Conflict - "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Sooner or later he would, and then another and then another... he considered West weak, due to how they **** up their "mission" in Afghanistan, and how much Eastern and Western block in EU was quarreling all of the time before the war... He did not expect the unity he got in the end...

I agree, we witnessed a more " reasonable " Putin during Trumps presidency but the Ukrainian invasion was inevitable

And thats why the West is addressing it now. 

[Mamoulian War]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious !!! Stop being naughty, you really dont have a favorable view of the US do you....I want complete honesty now 

PS : If Im wrong I can get you discounts on Aunty Sam blowup dolls ?

Well the fact is, some of the american politicians are as big **** as russian... And yes we have such big **** here as well, and I bet there are that kind of **** everywhere else as well

[Mamoulian War]

In other news, more than 50 tons of stuff looted in Ukraine by Russians since February 24th, including their own army's Orlans... And people are wondering, why I am still making fun out of their soldiers, that they are dismantling even their half century old tanks, where is "nothing to gain". LOL If you really think, there is nothing to gain from gutted T-80 or even T-62, then you have absolutely no clue about the mentality of some people in post communist countries. And the more you are going to the east, the more is this mentality prevalent, because of their "standard of living"...

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[xzar_monty]

34 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

LOL If you really think, there is nothing to gain from gutted T-80 or even T-62, then you have absolutely no clue about the mentality of some people in post communist countries. And the more you are going to the east, the more is this mentality prevalent, because of their "standard of living"...

This is a real problem. There are such differences in standards of living that it is hard for some to imagine what is (viewed as) valuable to others.

We know that the Russian soldiers sent to Ukraine do not come from reasonably well-off families in St. Petersburg and Moscow. They are poor rural kids, for the most part.

[BruceVC]

50 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Well the fact is, some of the american politicians are as big **** as russian... And yes we have such big **** here as well, and I bet there are that kind of **** everywhere else as well

Mamie it sounds like you distrust politicians generally? You mustnt be like that, all our politicians care about the poor and want to fix things like inequality. Thats why they always say  in speeches things like " we care about the people "

Why do you think they always kiss babies...its because they care 

[xzar_monty]

Experts come to the conclusion that has been apparent for quite some time: Russia's war in Ukraine is genocidal.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/europe/russia-ukraine-genocide-warning-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2nRt3lqhoZH9LW-lJj_BYCdOnImrmrE8nIlOvIfMqbAu3gFLK9IxF99pM

Edited May 27, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Malcador]

Interesting to see the alacrity with how this one got declared, heh.   But in terms of their urging the international community to do something, what do they want that isn't being done now ?

[Darkpriest]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/26/ukraine-frontline-russia-military-severodonetsk/

 

Narrative cracking to support some concessions and end of war? 

[Chilloutman]

paywall

[Malcador]

I'd paste the text but not sure if our fascist overlords moderators approve of that.  Hit escape before the page fully loads in a private browser window, that does it. Also so does the Reader mode in FF

[kanisatha]

A very interesting read:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-us-ukraine-discuss-danger-escalation-new-arms-extend-kyivs-reach-2022-05-26/

[Lexx]

As far as I've heard, there's plenty ukraine soldiers in the east who don't have anything left to fight the russians with. They request permission to retreat, or they simply abandon their position on their own and wait for getting arrested. Better than waiting for russians to kill them I guess.

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, that's what the WP article is about, mostly, with a wholesome dollop of complaint about incompetent upper level leadership.

It was quite an interesting read for me, because the video mentioned in it did the rounds a few days ago and was pretty much instantly dismissed as Russian psyops- still was by many even after it leaked that the Ukrainians had arrested the people in the video. And there are a lot more similar videos floating around too. You kind of have to wonder if the guy got arrested mostly for talking to the WP on the record rather than the video itself.

Militarily they almost certainly should have retreated from Sverodonetsk weeks ago when the roads were (more) secure and they could have done so in relatively good order, now they have difficulty getting any supplies and replacements through at all as they are down to one road in and out that is within easy artillery range. If they retreated now it would near inevitably end up in rout, and a whole heap of people would be reduced to walking themselves out.

5 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

paywall

It's worth reading, iirc you do get some free articles from the WP every month before the pay wall kicks in. Though per above it's not a positive read for the pro Ukrainian side.

[Mamoulian War]

And here is the article about the Doneck spearatists complaining, which I've mentioned earlier. Google translate. But it is pretty much very close to what the WP says about Ukrainians. And it also states the obvious, that the collaborators who betrayed their own nation are for Soviets/Russians worth less than women for Taliban...

https://www-startitup-sk.translate.goog/odmietame-tu-zomriet-separatisti-z-donecka/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Also the Eastern Front is real mess, no doubt about that. The lack of equipment has been even addressed by Zelensky, Arestovych and even pro-Ukrainian bloggers. So the Washington Post article, pretty much states the obvious and logical things happening. I just don't understand, that some people are thinking, that being pro-ukrainian automatically means being a goof living in alternate reality... I'll leave that to consumers of Russian "news"...

[Zoraptor]

Personally I wouldn't describe anyone here as being a goof*, but plenty on the internet in general are of the opinion that anything 'anti Ukrainian' has to be fake news Russian psyops posted by shills from a bot farm- no matter what the evidence. They deserve at minimum some mild mocking for making it so difficult to get actual information. As would anyone who thinks everything is going perfectly to plan for Russia too, but there aren't really many of them except in the minds of the more rabidly pro Ukraine.

Stories about Russian supply issues get a lot less traction because we've been hearing them for 3 months and how they're perpetually about to run out of everything. Pretty much all the stories about Ukraine have been about the massive supplies being sent by the west and how well they're doing; anything running counter to that therefore gets a lot of attention.

*the only one I probably would have is not here any more, and was, well, pro Russian.

[Mamoulian War]

Well the fact is, that all the weapons from e.g. Lend Lease has not yet arrived, that's why the Ukraine is going full defense with leaving their positions as late as possible (see Lyman). As I said, even Zelensky says that on Donbas battleground the Russia has 5-times more equipment than Ukraine. The reason is simple. Russia has allegedly 50% of all troops currently in Ukraine around Severodonetsk and Lysichanks. So the most logical thing to do, is hold the ground as long as humanly possible, retreat, and be sure, that Russian casualties are bigger than Ukrainian. This really sucks, but they do not have any other option until more weapons arrive On some fronts, like Avdiivka this works for more than 3 months already, without need to retreat. At some other places, like Popasna and Rubizhne, it did not work, due to the terrain being less in favor to Ukraine, than around Avdiivka, which is like 5km away from the capital of DNR - Donetsk City.

If enough weapons arrive soon, UA may start counteroffensive around Kherson, and hope, that the danger of turning off the water-pipe to Crimea again, would make Russian move some of the tremendous army power away from Severodonetsk and Lysichansk cauldron...

[Mamoulian War]

The other thing, that UA is waiting for, is that the EU will do their homework, and will make stricter and stricter sanctions to Russia. In the west of EU, there might be some people spewing bull**** like Kissinger, but for the east of EU (except Hungary ofc), it is unthinkable, to allow Russia win this war.

On one hand, economic might take long to affect the Russian ruling elite, but there is serious lack of a lot of stuff, which Russia depends on, which was imported from the West. And they just simply cannot count on China to substitute EU in all of the stuff. The fact, that many people are omitting is, that Russia is more dependent on EU than vice versa.

Slovakia less than month ago was whining, that we will pay to Russia in rubles for their gas. In less than a month a second biggest **** in our government, who wanted to pay in rubles, managed to make deals around the world for the same price as current Russian price, that we will be cutting off 60% of all Russian gas imports on June 1st 2022. If our useless **** in government are able to make such advantageous deals, everyone can...

The Russian economic elite is already starting to become very worried how dire the whole economic situation in Russia might get, if the war does not end soon. Today 4 Duma members of Communist Party, signed the demand to stop the war... Something unthinkable just few days ago... And the discontent slowly grows. The easiest to notice, that the situation in Russia is getting to hell is to follow some Russian social trolls in Eastern Europe. They write a lot, about how awesome the denazification goes, but as soon, as Kissinger opened his mouth about ceding some Ukrainian soil to Russia for exchange of peace, the activity all of these trolls has arisen tenfold, with all of them praising how wise this guy is...

If EU will do their homework as good as Slovakia did with the gas, and adds oil to it as well, Russian economy will implode sooner than anyone would dream of few weeks ago. And Russian army with no money, will be no threat anymore. T-62s instead T-80s will be then just the tip of the iceberg of their army's issues then...

End if you really think, that ceding some soil to Russia will change anything, just look back at 1938, how did the ceding of Sudetten, Silesia and South Slovakia to Germany, Poland and Hungary helped to change something at that time...

Edited May 27, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Malcador]

Guess the issue is how well the Ukrainians deal with being torn up while they wait for the implosion.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Personally I wouldn't describe anyone here as being a goof*, but plenty on the internet in general are of the opinion that anything 'anti Ukrainian' has to be fake news Russian psyops posted by shills from a bot farm- no matter what the evidence. They deserve at minimum some mild mocking for making it so difficult to get actual information. As would anyone who thinks everything is going perfectly to plan for Russia too, but there aren't really many of them except in the minds of the more rabidly pro Ukraine.

Stories about Russian supply issues get a lot less traction because we've been hearing them for 3 months and how they're perpetually about to run out of everything. Pretty much all the stories about Ukraine have been about the massive supplies being sent by the west and how well they're doing; anything running counter to that therefore gets a lot of attention.

*the only one I probably would have is not here any more, and was, well, pro Russian.

I think that positive morale is very important for Ukrainians, there needs to be a will to keep fighting back despite overwhelming odds, so they hide their losses as much as they can and amplify Russia's as much as they can. As for the news in the west, I think they are giving it their all to try and keep this conflict in the public's eye and a hot topic overall. We'll see how long it will take before the Ukraine topic is once again old news.

[Mamoulian War]

27 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Guess the issue is how well the Ukrainians deal with being torn up while they wait for the implosion.

To put it bluntly, you are correct…

 

oh also, circling back to the “urban legend” of how Russia is minimising the civilian damage, which some people still wants to believe… here you can see in comparison how the real minimising of nonmilitary damage actually looks like when performed by UA artillery. And compare it to Russian “advancements”..

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[pmp10]

6 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Slovakia less than month ago was whining, that we will pay to Russia in rubles for their gas. In less than a month a second biggest **** in our government, who wanted to pay in rubles, managed to make deals around the world for the same price as current Russian price, that we will be cutting off 60% of all Russian gas imports on June 1st 2022. If our useless **** in government are able to make such advantageous deals, everyone can...

What makes you think you are not paying in rubles by now?
EC refused to clarify their stance on whether this violates sanctions.
Plenty of statements about 'following EU recommendations' were made but this might have become a synonym for paying in rubles.

[Gorth]

@BruceVC

I was being semi serious when I suggested Trump would’ve been more likely to support Russia over Ukraine….

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61614782

[BruceVC]

41 minutes ago, Gorth said:

@BruceVC

I was being semi serious when I suggested Trump would’ve been more likely to support Russia over Ukraine….

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61614782

I assumed you were being serious because its a valid point

Remember Trump has very little interest or understanding of geopolitics and the US historical role and relationship with institutions like NATO. His strength was appealing to the base and internal US developments 

So if  he was still president I am not saying he would be supporting the unprovoked invasion and war crimes but he wouldn't be sending the  amount of aid to Ukraine or be as vociferously critical of Putin as Biden has been

As you know I dont support the Democrats on certain policies but I did want Biden to win in 2020. Bidens response to the invasion is the correct one and Trump would not have responded in the same way

Its not an exaggeration when people say " Trump had a bromance with Putin  " and that bromance went both ways 

Putin definitely respected Trump and was very reluctant to ever criticize him 

 

[Malcador]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

@BruceVC

I was being semi serious when I suggested Trump would’ve been more likely to support Russia over Ukraine….

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61614782

I dunno, he's just spewing BS the NRA trash eat up. If he were in charge now, he'd be bellicose as hell, knowing the people would love that.  Well that and probably tweeting intelligence out just for bragging purposes.

With the war, anyone know what kind of Harpoons the Danes are sending?

[Mamoulian War]

13 hours ago, pmp10 said:

What makes you think you are not paying in rubles by now?
EC refused to clarify their stance on whether this violates sanctions.
Plenty of statements about 'following EU recommendations' were made but this might have become a synonym for paying in rubles.

Bacause we are now paying for 60+% of our gas to Norway and Croatia and other Netherlands in USD/EUR. The last 30+% we got from Russia is also payed in USD, because all of our Gas import is performed by state owned company, which gives us much better leverage, than private companies in the west, which must obey their shareholders as well. And if they turn us off, we have already enough gas stacked to have a chance to survive this winter. So we have now 1 and half year to find a way, how to substitute the last 30+%.