Ukraine Conflict - Alle Dinge unterliegen Interpretation je nachdem, was Interpretation zu einem bestimmten Zeitpunkt herrscht, ist eine Funktion der Macht und nicht die Wahrheit

[Mamoulian War]

21 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

I'm pretty sure the idea at least is to just steal Russian money to pay for it, and saddle them with 'war reparations' to permanently cripple their economy. Double benefit, get the Russians to pay for western companies rebuilding and that way they can also justify keeping reliance on Russian hydrocarbons too- after all it would be paying for Ukraine to be fixed!

There is this heretical idea... You know, maybe if Russia did not attacked Ukraine, the business would be as usual, with Nordstream 2 running and spreading hydrocarbons to happy EU, and no one would need to pay for war reparations

[Mamoulian War]

11 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

The recent photo of Putin and Shoigu meeting (in a short table!) looks frankly horrendous -- from a medical point of view. While it's not proper or reasonable to read too much into one photo or one appearance, Putin's physique does appear to have deteriorated an awful lot. Shocking to see, really.

As a side note, I find it curious to see the amount of cynicism on these forums and specifically on this thread. I think I am quite a bit older than many others here (could be wrong, of course), and I find this jadedness quite baffling. What kind of a life does anyone expect to live if their approach to other people / nations / history / etc. is as black as that? Very lonely at least, it seems to me.

I found also an video of the meeting, with a little bit of clinical analysis.

 

[Mamoulian War]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

I imagine it'll only get more unpopular. Western countries will run out of old gear to dump on them eventually, yes, but they can start training Ukrainian forces on their own gear.  So things look on the up there for Ukraine. 

Really sorry for multipost, but somehow did not notice this before...

Well France and i guess probably UK are already training Ukraine soldiers for the use for some NATO equipment, preparing them for possible long war of attrition.

[213374U]

"clinical analysis"

"possibly bathing in the blood of deer antlers"

very journalism, much rigorous, wow

[Zoraptor]

To be fair, it's probably got as much journalistic vigour as "Putin has Parkinsons and will retire in January [2021], intelligence sources say" which was made up by The Sun then reported by everyone else.

12 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

The recent photo of Putin and Shoigu meeting (in a short table!) looks frankly horrendous -- from a medical point of view. While it's not proper or reasonable to read too much into one photo or one appearance, Putin's physique does appear to have deteriorated an awful lot. Shocking to see, really.

Mostly, that meeting was just staged weirdly/ awkwardly- possibly to make Putin look tall compared to Shoigu; but Tom Cruise Complex isn't a medical condition. For whatever reason they've used chairs which aren't the right height for the table they're sitting at (easily visible in one of the stills the Kremlin released, and no I'm not game enough to hotlink from The Kremlin's website). Pretty much everything is explained by... Putin leaning back in his chair. It's not like Shoigu looks better either, he's just leaning forward instead of sitting back. Then again, guess he looks pretty good for someone who has suffered two fatal heart attacks in the last month...

My completely non medical opinion on the desk gripping- Putin has carpal tunnel. Because I do exactly the same thing when I have to sit at an awkwardly set up desk/ chair combo where I can't rest my arm properly and doing my usual stretches isn't appropriate.

(Lord knows what the press would make of my behaviour at a desk/ table, I spend at least half my time doing stretches)

Quote

As a side note, I find it curious to see the amount of cynicism on these forums and specifically on this thread. I think I am quite a bit older than many others here (could be wrong, of course), and I find this jadedness quite baffling. What kind of a life does anyone expect to live if their approach to other people / nations / history / etc. is as black as that? Very lonely at least, it seems to me.

If you think the worst then every surprise is a positive one...

[xzar_monty]

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Mostly, that meeting was just staged weirdly/ awkwardly- possibly to make Putin look tall compared to Shoigu; but Tom Cruise Complex isn't a medical condition.

I also wonder if it was very poorly lit or something, but really can't say. Anyway, while I pretty much disregard any "clinical analysis" of the situation (there's too little material and there isn't anything too obvious in it), I also thought the footage was shocking, as I said. Not so much because of what Putin looks like per se, but because of what Putin looks like in comparison to what he looked like just recently. The change was the big thing for me. Like he got very very old in a matter of days.

And yes, the meeting also gave an update of sorts on Shoigu.

[BruceVC]

28 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I also wonder if it was very poorly lit or something, but really can't say. Anyway, while I pretty much disregard any "clinical analysis" of the situation (there's too little material and there isn't anything too obvious in it), I also thought the footage was shocking, as I said. Not so much because of what Putin looks like per se, but because of what Putin looks like in comparison to what he looked like just recently. The change was the big thing for me. Like he got very very old in a matter of days.

And yes, the meeting also gave an update of sorts on Shoigu.

Putin is not looking great, it will solve much of the problems around Putins War if he did die. Its like you cant have Trumpism without  Trump 

And remember this is Russia, people die all the time under strange circumstances, you see 2 Russian Oligarchs died under "unusual " circumstances. One in Moscow and one in Spain 

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/2-russian-oligarchs-found-dead-spain-moscow-reports-2022-4?r=US&IR=T

 

 

[bugarup]

7 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

My completely non medical opinion on the desk gripping- Putin has carpal tunnel. Because I do exactly the same thing when I have to sit at an awkwardly set up desk/ chair combo where I can't rest my arm properly and doing my usual stretches isn't appropriate.

My completely not spied in a caricature opinion - there's a button under that corner that extends the table to more comfortable to putler proportions (he sent his old longtable to the Black Sea to replace the late Moskva) and it's stuck, that's why he looks so constipated. 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Putin is not looking great, it will solve much of the problems around Putins War if he did die. Its like you cant have Trumpism without  Trump

To an extent this is true, but Russia is completely different from the US, in general. Russia has been around for over a thousand years, and it has had two very brief periods of something resembling an attempt at democracy; one around 1917 and one around 1990(*). For nearly all of its history it has been extremely authoritarian. So, in all likelihood, Russia will NOT change after Putin. Do not pin your hopes on any kind of structural change in Russia.

One important distinction, for example, is the (shall we say) Hegelian structure that exists in the west and does not exist in Russia; never has. Western countries will have a government, and the government will have an opposition. The government will have a view ("thesis"), the opposition will have another view ("antithesis"), and the policies of the country will often resemble a mixture or a compromise of the two ("synthesis"), with the government in more control than the opposition, of course.

In Russia, there is a government and no properly recognized opposition whose views are respected in any way. The views of the opposition are often regarded as rebellion, and if the rebellion succeeds, the opposition will become the new government which will, again, not respect any new opposition. The entire thinking is different: much more brutal, much less inclined to listen, not open to debate.

 

(*) In Russia, this period is not remembered fondly at all, which is a bad thing.

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

To an extent this is true, but Russia is completely different from the US, in general. Russia has been around for over a thousand years, and it has had two very brief periods of something resembling an attempt at democracy; one around 1917 and one around 1990(*). For nearly all of its history it has been extremely authoritarian. So, in all likelihood, Russia will NOT change after Putin. Do not pin your hopes on any kind of structural change in Russia.

One important distinction, for example, is the (shall we say) Hegelian structure that exists in the west and does not exist in Russia; never has. Western countries will have a government, and the government will have an opposition. The government will have a view ("thesis"), the opposition will have another view ("antithesis"), and the policies of the country will often resemble a mixture or a compromise of the two ("synthesis"), with the government in more control than the opposition, of course.

In Russia, there is a government and no properly recognized opposition whose views are respected in any way. The views of the opposition are often regarded as rebellion, and if the rebellion succeeds, the opposition will become the new government which will, again, not respect any new opposition. The entire thinking is different: much more brutal, much less inclined to listen, not open to debate.

 

(*) In Russia, this period is not remembered fondly at all, which is a bad thing.

You right, I would like to see  structural reform in Russia if Putin croaks 

But then I think, who would replace him? What do we know and like about other Russian possible leaders, are they going to immediately end Putins War?

Maybe they will or maybe they might be more nationalistic than Putin?

But I like your description of the difference between Western governments and Russia. Its important to have meaningful opposition parties in any Democracy because it makes  the elected party aware they might get voted out if they fail to deliver 

Where do live Monty? Did you study history and geopolitics or is just a hobby because you make some good points 

[xzar_monty]

10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But then I think, who would replace him? What do we know and like about other Russian possible leaders, are they going to immediately end Putins War?

We know almost nothing. That's a bad thing. Also, given how Putin has operated during his time in power, can we think of anyone who might have been able to build any kind of support or coherent policy? I don't think so. Putin has killed part of the opposition and silenced the rest.

I live in Scandinavia. I have worked for decades in both journalism and the publishing industry, which is a curious combination as it gives you very thorough information on some things (depending on your assignments) while at the same time leaving you quite ignorant about others. So, for example, I know an awful lot about Mossad but my knowledge of FBI or CIA is as poor as anyone else's -- I happened to work on a long and thorough Mossad-related project which left me with a lot of info on that.

[xzar_monty]

Apparently, Ukraine has made another successful strike inside Russia, in Bryansk: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/large-fire-oil-depot-russias-bryansk-near-ukraine-agencies-2022-04-25/

Easy to find videos on this, too.

[Lexx]

10 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Apparently, Ukraine has made another successful strike inside Russia, in Bryansk: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/large-fire-oil-depot-russias-bryansk-near-ukraine-agencies-2022-04-25/

Easy to find videos on this, too.

Interesting, related tweet from 5 days ago:

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

We know almost nothing. That's a bad thing. Also, given how Putin has operated during his time in power, can we think of anyone who might have been able to build any kind of support or coherent policy? I don't think so. Putin has killed part of the opposition and silenced the rest.

I live in Scandinavia. I have worked for decades in both journalism and the publishing industry, which is a curious combination as it gives you very thorough information on some things (depending on your assignments) while at the same time leaving you quite ignorant about others. So, for example, I know an awful lot about Mossad but my knowledge of FBI or CIA is as poor as anyone else's -- I happened to work on a long and thorough Mossad-related project which left me with a lot of info on that.

Yes but which Nordic country do you live in, no reason to be coy. The Nordic countries are held in very high regard by most people on this forum and their are several active forum members who live in, or were born, in this region

That includes ( and Im just including the active members on Off-Topic )

Gorth and Not Totally Gorgon : Denmark

Azdeus and Pidesco : Sweden

Elerond : Finland 

I truly admire how the Nordic countries have been able to create a working economic and political model which is a hybrid of socialism and Capitalism. It works because most citizens support the system....sadly it cant be implemented in other countries because of entitlement, self-interest\greed  and lack of support for this type of system that many people outside of the Nordic countries practice 

 

[xzar_monty]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

My completely non medical opinion on the desk gripping- Putin has carpal tunnel. Because I do exactly the same thing when I have to sit at an awkwardly set up desk/ chair combo where I can't rest my arm properly and doing my usual stretches isn't appropriate.

Btw, the people who dedicate time to stuff like this appear to have established that Putin's subsequent televised appearance in a church is not authentic, and that the faked video isn't even particularly good. Apparently, the need to both fake the televised appearance and the poor end result suggest that people are worried (about Putin's image) and in a hurry (to come up with stuff) -- not my words, note, just relayed commentary.

I haven't seen this supposed church appearance and can't comment on it, but what I posted above came to me from a realiable source, one that I at least trust. That doesn't mean it's 100% correct, of course.

[BruceVC]

https://english.elpais.com/economy-and-business/2022-04-19/russias-central-bank-says-that-the-economy-will-plummet-in-the-second-trimester-and-putin-is-ignoring-the-warning.html

A sobering economic analysis of the future of the Russian economy from the president of Russian Central Bank

Its grim news but exactly the long term damage the Western sanctions have over time 

The Ruskies have basically burned through their available war chest\sovereign fund. Once this is exhausted you will see real economic hardships in Russia...Putins War is coming home to roost 

[Chilloutman]

Well Sweden is not doing too well right now

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

Well Sweden is not doing too well right now

In what way ?

[Chilloutman]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

In what way ?

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220420-riots-over-koran-burning-test-swedish-tolerance

 

apparently 3 people already shot by police. Better ask Azdeus whats going on as I have only sparse info

Edited April 25, 2022 by Chilloutman

[BruceVC]

16 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220420-riots-over-koran-burning-test-swedish-tolerance

 

apparently 3 people already shot by police. Better ask Azdeus whats going on as I have only sparse info

@Pidesco and @Azdeus

Why you guys burning Korans? Thats not very Swedish, liberal  and socialist?

But on a serious note, I do have an issue with people protesting, damaging property and attacking the police over something that a Swedish extremist group wants to do. Why must the whole country be subjected to violent protests?

I find it offensive that they want to burn the Koran in the same way I would object to the Bible being burned but that doesnt justify criminality. The Swedish police must arrest and prosecute people involved in the violent protests 

 

[xzar_monty]

Interesting (apparent) contradiction yet again: how can the Moskva be a humiliation, if it was lost to a fire? Surely that's no one's fault...

https://technotrenz.com/entertainment/after-the-humiliation-of-the-moskva-warship-putin-has-lost-interest-in-peace-talks-and-wants-to-win-big-1848173.html

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

@Pidesco and @Azdeus

Why you guys burning Korans? Thats not very Swedish, liberal  and socialist?

But on a serious note, I do have an issue with people protesting, damaging property and attacking the police over something that a Swedish extremist group wants to do. Why must the whole country be subjected to violent protests?

I find it offensive that they want to burn the Koran in the same way I would object to the Bible being burned but that doesnt justify criminality. The Swedish police must arrest and prosecute people involved in the violent protests 

 

It was a Dane, so ask Gorth.

[Malcador]

20 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

There is this heretical idea... You know, maybe if Russia did not attacked Ukraine, the business would be as usual, with Nordstream 2 running and spreading hydrocarbons to happy EU, and no one would need to pay for war reparations

But the reality is that they did. So now there's an opportunity to use the situation advantageously.

[Raithe]

 

[bugarup]

So putler yakked the other day that there was a conspiracy to snuff Solovjov, Kremlin's propaganda tool numero uno. Neo-nazi, Ukrainian passports, yadda yadda, you know the drill.

(Source: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/04/25/fsb-ob-yavila-o-zaderzhanii-neonatsistov-kotorye-yakoby-planirovali-po-zakazu-sbu-ubit-vladimira-solovieva-i-drugih-propagandistov)

Aaaaand here be the picture of "evidence".    While it looks too silly to be anything but a fake, it matches shots from the video of arrest up there. Mean people are already making jokes about how the assassination plan was to lure Solovjov into the pool and take out the ladder and it seems like a sort of postmodern self-mockery until you remember that russian state TV also presented a tome of Shakespeare as an evidence or "Anglo-Saxon mercenaries in Ukraine"...

(There is also a photo of some sort of incriminating postcard that is signed with, I kid you not, "Undecipherable signature").