Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[Mamoulian War]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:37 AM, Gorth said:

The Chernobyl disaster happened in 1986. Probably before most of the Russian conscripts were born. If not briefed by command to keep their shovels away, they may not have been any the wiser. We're talking about an army where the common soldier doesn't seem to be encouraged to show initiative or heaven forbid, critical thinking.

 

(and it may not have featured regularly on RT either)

Well most of the Russian commanders were alive during the disaster, this just underlines the fact, that Russia's worst enemy was always Russia

[BruceVC]

24 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

they do

Mamie !!!! Stop being naughty and lazy, if you force me I will tell your wife 

You must obviously post the links with  an example of the video outside of Oz ?

[Mamoulian War]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:05 AM, Zoraptor said:

That doesn't really fit what happened though. If they wanted it publicised to frighten others into submission or whatever they'd have, well, publicised it. As it is it's only come out after they've withdrawn.

Wagner's certainly more of a "let's do something monumentally stupid, and let's film ourselves doing it so we get a reputation" sort of group when it comes to violence given some of their conduct in Syria and CAR. But that doesn't fit Bucha well at all.

Well Russia have planned to take the North of Kyiv, the Bucha, Borodyanka and Makariv, all were not meant for the world to see, just for the Ukrainians. Thankfully they were beaten and run away, so the rest of the world can see, what Russia is capable of...

And speaking of Wagner, they are only in the east, and they lost today/yesterday 1 whole division there. Bucha was under the "reign" of Chabarovsk units, which committed all of these atrocities. And the names of all members of the division/battalion are already in the wild. So I expect, most of them will have accidents at a tea parties in very near future, to cover up all that ****...

[Mamoulian War]

On 4/8/2022 at 3:53 PM, Gorth said:

Which would no doubt involve the stationing of a large contingent of Belarussian troops in Ukraine?

Nope it would be Russian troops, which would be guaranteed to do as they please by Lukashenka

[Mamoulian War]

3 hours ago, kanisatha said:

So then would you say there should be no Article 5 response in case of a 9/11-style attack on any other NATO member (including potentially Sweden)? Or is this just for the US? I'm trying to understand your logic here because the 9/11 attack fully satisfied Article 5 conditions.

Also, I vaguely recall that it was NATO, led by France, that invoked Article 5 after 9/11, and not the US.

The biggest issue which I had with that in the past, was that they invaded wrong country, despite everyone mothers and their cats knew, that Usama was funded by Saudis

[Mamoulian War]

Also speaking of beating ISIS... one Russian soldier (already identified as Bychkov) has released his own video on Telegram doing unimaginable things to toddlers and gloating about it...

 

On a more positive note, Ukrainians are still kicking Russian ass at Mariupol. Especially at Azovstal, and in the suburbs to the east despite Kadyrov's TikTok Battalion claiming they own the whole city.

Not gonna show any links, but if you really want to see what happens to Russian soldiers at Mariupol, search for "18+ «Азов» в Маріуполі знищив БМП і піхоту" on Youtube for 36 seconds long video released on Українська правда channel.

[213374U]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

Also speaking of beating ISIS... one Russian soldier (already identified as Bychkov) has released his own video on Telegram doing unimaginable things to toddlers and gloating about it...

Yep, I read about that. Have you watched the video?

 

[Malcador]

Did the Russians actually seize the port complex? Saw video of that yesterday, although fighting was still audible.

[pmp10]

Another thing missed yesterday:
No tanks for Ukraine.

That likely leaves total NATO contribution at the 5 Czech ones.
I doubt any aircraft or serious artillery will be provided for the same reasons.

Most likely ends Ukrainian hopes for retaking of the south. 

[Lexx]

"because it “wouldn’t be appropriate”" lol.

Also, yes, that toddler thing is disgusting. Stumbled over it by accident, because it was running over various twitter feeds. Hope they get this guy and bomb him to hell or more.

[Chilloutman]

I mean Ukraine is not trained to use Western tanks so it would probably not be very helpful

[Lexx]

Yes, I agree. That's also why I'm rolling my eyes whenever someone complaints about it. However, at current state I'm guessing this conflict will still take a while, so might as well start training them.

[Chilloutman]

yeah I guess this will take a while now. I think Russia will try to take the south and then fortify there and it will be another trench war

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

And speaking of Wagner, they are only in the east, and they lost today/yesterday 1 whole division there.

It's best to just use 'unit' unless you're sure of the size.

A division is a proper military term for a unit which has a lot of men (iirc something like 12k for a Russian one), far more than even the largest estimate for the number of Wagner members. Based on the more credible estimates Wagner might scrape together two understrength battalions, if deployed monolithically, which even combined are an order of magnitude smaller.

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Did the Russians actually seize the port complex? Saw video of that yesterday, although fighting was still audible.

Probably not for the Port proper. The port residential area being taken seems pretty well supported though.

[Lexx]

Actually apparently some Wagner mercs were in Chernobyl and got the radz.

 

[rjshae]

The Russian army is still using the T-72, and Poland has 382 of that model. Under the lend-lease model the West could transfer a cost equivalent in modern battle tanks to Poland, then send Poland's tanks to Ukraine.

[Zoraptor]

Poland is due to get replacement Abrams this year anyway via an already existing order. That would just be accelerated. The US can also provide older models from reserve, if needed.

The issue is more that Ukraine doesn't actually use T-72s themselves, they use T-64s and T-80s since that's what the Kharkov Tank Factory can make; so getting them isn't quite as much of an advantage as you'd think. Don't think anyone has T-64s and T-80s to give though, unfortunately, all the ex WP countries have T-72s.

[rjshae]

The T-72s are probably going to be a stop-gap measure, but better than nothing. Unfortunately, the Ukraine tank factory is in Kharkiv. Then again the Russian tank maker has run out of foreign parts due to the sanctions, so maybe it will be a wash.

Russia’s largest tank manufacturer may have run out of parts

[Mamoulian War]

14 hours ago, 213374U said:

Yep, I read about that. Have you watched the video?

 

Nope, I rather not... That kind of **** is disturbing even reading about it...

[Mamoulian War]

14 hours ago, Malcador said:

Did the Russians actually seize the port complex? Saw video of that yesterday, although fighting was still audible.

Looks like it was just a Russian propaganda, that they seized it. Allegedly, this happened day after they released that statement.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[xzar_monty]

On 4/9/2022 at 10:54 AM, BruceVC said:

I also cant imagine Sweden going to war in a NATO campaign? I can see Denmark and Finland but not you guys 

Sweden regards wars as commercial opportunities for itself. See, for example, WW2 and providing iron to the Nazis.

[Mamoulian War]

12 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

It's best to just use 'unit' unless you're sure of the size.

A division is a proper military term for a unit which has a lot of men (iirc something like 12k for a Russian one), far more than even the largest estimate for the number of Wagner members. Based on the more credible estimates Wagner might scrape together two understrength battalions, if deployed monolithically, which even combined are an order of magnitude smaller.

Thanks for clarification, I'll keep that in mind. I used just google translate from my language.

Anyway few news. After our government worked with Italian Mafia, helped to kidnap Vietnamese citizen, supplied weapons to Syrian jihadists through Saudi Arabia, completely ****ed up COVID management, which cost lives of thousands of people, and keeping convicted plagiarist as a minister of finance, I can be finally proud of them of them first time after more than 15 years... Slovakia sent thier S300 system to Ukraine. Well of course our previous corrupt prime minister leaked it to social media and Russia, which endangered our soldiers during management of this operation...

https://spectator.sme.sk/c/22881823/ive-seen-the-biggest-terrors-of-war-heger-about-his-visit-to-bucha.html

On April 8th Maxar made few pictures of 8 miles long column heading to area near Izyum.

Ukrainians shared video on Telegram, where they destroyed huge column near Izyum.

https://t.me/vekha/35275

Might be connected to each other...

[xzar_monty]

Btw, from a northern European perspective, these Russian atrocities are nothing new. This is precisely the kind of behaviour that the history of Russia would indicate. For those who have studied history at school somewhere outside northern Europe, many of these historical atrocities are quite possibly something they haven't read about at all, and fair enough: each area tends to emphasize history particularly relevant to that area. This a "fault" we all have.

But here's a good example of just one thing Russia is notorious for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_during_the_Great_Northern_War

During that gruesome era, toddlers were tortured in front of their parents and parents tortured in front of their children.

Edited April 10, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Mamoulian War]

21 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Btw, from a northern European perspective, these Russian atrocities are nothing new. This is precisely the kind of behaviour that the history of Russia would indicate. For those who have studied history at school somewhere outside northern Europe, many of these historical atrocities are quite possibly something they haven't read about at all, and fair enough: each area tends to emphasize history particularly relevant to that area. This a "fault" we all have.

But here's a good example of just one thing Russia is notorious for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_during_the_Great_Northern_War

During that gruesome era, toddlers were tortured in front of their parents and parents tortured in front of their children.

The similar was always teached here as well after 1989, unfortunately last 13 years or so, the Russian and neo-nazi propaganda started to be tolerated by state apparatus and also by our media, just to get clicks, and now is the situation, that 30%+ of people here support Russia, and believe, that Bucha and Kramatorsk incidents are staged by Ukraine to smear Putin's name...

[BruceVC]

26 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Btw, from a northern European perspective, these Russian atrocities are nothing new. This is precisely the kind of behaviour that the history of Russia would indicate. For those who have studied history at school somewhere outside northern Europe, many of these historical atrocities are quite possibly something they haven't read about at all, and fair enough: each area tends to emphasize history particularly relevant to that area. This a "fault" we all have.

But here's a good example of just one thing Russia is notorious for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_during_the_Great_Northern_War

During that gruesome era, toddlers were tortured in front of their parents and parents tortured in front of their children.

@Elerond  were you aware of this?