Ukraine Conflict - Drei Kameraden

[kanisatha]

7 hours ago, 213374U said:

Ain't "our" war, friend. Last I checked, Ukraine is not a part of NATO. You're casually talking about launching a completely new war, one that would have a fair chance of escalating into a major nuclear conflict. So yeah, maybe wait until Russia attacks you before going full Major Kong?

I always find this noble talk about "willing to die to defend you" quite cringe-worthy, by the way. Of course, it's not going to be you doing the dying, right? Nah, you'll be comfortable in your very much unbombed university halls, while others do the actual dying. Heh.

Yeah. By all means, find better things to spend that money on. Won't happen, sadly.

Very nice straw man there but doesn't fly with me. Show me where I said anything about the US starting any war in Europe? I was talking about the US defending Europe in a future war started by Russia, whenever Russia next decides to invade the Baltics or Poland or even Finland. And you clearly knew this was what I said. So you are full of BS.

Also the nonsense about me not doing the dying. Same for you, isn't it? You won't be doing the dying defending your own country from Russian attack now will you? And as for me, it is logical that I won't be bearing arms myself because I am old. If I were a young man when such a war happened, I would be bearing arms myself.

I get that you are a Putin apologist, and that for you America is the source of all evil in the world. Disagree with me all you want, but enough with your ridiculous grandstanding aimed at me, because that is entirely uncalled for.

Edited March 9, 2022 by kanisatha

[kanisatha]

8 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Some interesting stuff, why we still not see a reaction from MiddleEast

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/saudis-uae-refuse-speak-biden-over-ukraine-situation

Yes I saw this as a Reuters story last night. Very interesting indeed, and I absolutely don't blame the Saudis and Emiratis on their attitude.

[Malcador]

11 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Right, because the US is shooting up eastern Europe. Why would we fight YOUR war in our country? It's a silly thing to say. If someone ever invades the US, we would fight that war here, and very likely do it all by ourselves with no help from our "allies."

The point is that even though your countries are what will be getting attacked and not our country, we're still willing to die to help you defend yourselves. But hey, if that's something you don't want, by all means feel free to say so. I'm quite sure the American taxpayers footing that huge defense bill defending Europe will be more than happy to find things here at home to spend our money on.

US allies (no need for the scare quotes, unless you think allies are vassals..) would definitely help out the US.  Granted, I'd hope you cutting your military a blank cheque would mean it'd perform well enough that it wouldn't be a breaking point.   You Americans getting to experience a war first hand would be educational, though.

As for saving money leaving Europe, you're joking about defense spending going down, right ?

Aside, what's with people trying to portray 2l3374U as a Putin apologist or on Russia's side here ?

[Darkpriest]

That's some next level stuff on Russian TV

 

[Malcador]

13 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

That's some next level stuff on Russian TV

 

Tucker wouldn't be brave enough to stand up, though.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Aside, what's with people trying to portray 2l3374U as a Putin apologist or on Russia's side here ?

With us or against us mentality.

[Malcador]

27 minutes ago, Sarex said:

With us or against us mentality.

But he's part of the global 3l337. 

I'll be here all day.

Situation in Mariupol is getting grim, Russians also struck a hospital there, am sure the response will be the bog-standard "it was being used as a military outpost" from them.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Malcador

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2022/03/ukraine-socialist-interview-russian-invasion-war-putin-nato-imperialism

Because that’s not the end of the matter. Because they think ahead. If you listen to Russia’s officials and read their ideological manifestos, if you read people who interpret Russian foreign policy decision makers in the Kremlin — they see these apocalyptic events coming. They see the world changing to the core. They see that we live in the new world and Russia needs to find its place otherwise it will be eaten by these predators, by China or the US. They’re reasoning along the lines of “we need to act now, it’s now or never, there is time and it will either be glorious or we perish.” They also hope that they will join China in a sort of alliance. And they already need to mark their territory. The logic is: “There’s seven bad years ahead, but then we’ll have our hundred years of empire.” This is the frame of mind, if you read closely what the Russians are saying.

Interesting insight on the Russian mindset.  "Doom and Gloom and what do we do about it and how do we prepare for it?"  Seems to be the gist.

[213374U]

2 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Very nice straw man there but doesn't fly with me. Show me where I said anything about the US starting any war in Europe? I was talking about the US defending Europe in a future war started by Russia, whenever Russia next decides to invade the Baltics or Poland or even Finland. And you clearly knew this was what I said. So you are full of BS.

Also the nonsense about me not doing the dying. Same for you, isn't it? You won't be doing the dying defending your own country from Russian attack now will you? And as for me, it is logical that I won't be bearing arms myself because I am old. If I were a young man when such a war happened, I would be bearing arms myself.

Sure thing. When Russia attacks a NATO member, that will trigger Article 5. Hasn't happened though, so your fantasizing about a reconstituted cavalry charging against Russians in Crimea (heh) is either describing a fictional scenario, or simply advertising your personal lust for war. A war which, by your own admission, you'd watch on TV. In either case, it's out of place and... weird.

...which brings us to the next point. Yes, my dear armchair general. As a former member of the armed forces, I was part of the active reserve for 5 years after leaving. The law provides for recall of former members in exceptional circumstances so, if things got bad enough, I would probably be called to wear the uniform again, as I am physically fit and not old enough to be excluded.

You can bet your ass that I'd rather go to a military prison than be sent to kill Russians on a war started by some plutocrat clique in the US, though.

 

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Aside, what's with people trying to portray 2l3374U as a Putin apologist or on Russia's side here ?

It's a typical tactic. Make no actual arguments, but paint anyone with an opinion that disagrees with the party line as a commie subversive Russian apologist. Note that he previously labelled Prof. Mearsheimer as one, too.

In any case, I guess that if I'm a Putin apologist by suggesting that the West has played a big role in setting the stage for this war, notorious commie subversives American patriots like Henry Kissinger, Jack F. Matlock, and even Joe ****ing Biden are also Putin apologists, as they all acknowledged that eastward NATO expansion would inevitably trigger a Russian response.

In a predictable exercise of intellectual dishonesty, this is also assumed to mean an excuse of Russia's actions (it isn't) and so, an immediate disqualification of the opponent.

Edited March 9, 2022 by 213374U

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

With us or against us mentality.

You right again Sarex, " better dead than red  " 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2022/03/ukraine-socialist-interview-russian-invasion-war-putin-nato-imperialism

 

 

Interesting insight on the Russian mindset.  "Doom and Gloom and what do we do about it and how do we prepare for it?"  Seems to be the gist.

Interesting read and he makes some good points 

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, 213374U said:

It's a typical tactic. Make no actual arguments, but paint anyone with an opinion that disagrees with the party line as a commie subversive Russian apologist. Note that he previously labelled Prof. Mearsheimer as one, too.

Putins government isn't even communist.  He spent half his pre invasion speech demonizing Lenin.  Not sure why liberals have it drilled into their brains that United Russia = Communist Party of Russian Federation or USSR.  It's mind boggling and kinda reeks of racist Euro-centrism to suggest it.  

Mearsheimer is just an ultra realist who happened to prophesize exactly what happened (As opposed to most academics who utterly suck at predicting the future), and is ultimately aligned with liberal democracy, he actually has appeared recently.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[BruceVC]

The Russians have just bombed a hospital amongst other civilian targets....so either they the most incompetent army in the world or they are indeed targeting civilians which makes them craven and truly reprehensible 

[Zoraptor]

7 hours ago, Gorth said:

Edit3: Tl;dr; Europeans don't necessarily have a "European Identify"

Apart from the refugee issue you can also usually get a defence of 'Europe' by suggesting somewhere else is better, especially if they don't like/ are competitors with that place. You got an awful lot of people defending Europe- and not just the usual suspects either- over Brexit for example.

That's pretty close to universal as a concept though; I'm not exactly satisfied with New Zealand but try suggesting Australia is better the right/ wrong way and the Lazar Kiwi would be unfurled, the fearsome martial strains of Pokarekare Ana sung and traditional garb of All Blacks jersey worn in response.

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

Aside, what's with people trying to portray 2l3374U as a Putin apologist or on Russia's side here ?

Obviously if you can understand someone else's perspective you must also agree with it. How else could you understand it?

At least there aren't any paid shill accusations. I always laughed when that was trotted out against oby, as if he was doing it for anything other than free to get a reaction such as, well, to be accused of being a paid shill.

[BruceVC]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-news-live-updates-march-9-2022-231603838.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Good news, the oil price dropped to $110 just on sentiment that OPEC will produce more oil

Hopefully they stick to this commitment because then the Russian invasion will have less global economic impact around this commodity 

@Darkpriest Its good news if OPEC will sustain it 

[Malcador]

 

[Darkpriest]

12 hours ago, Sarex said:

US still importing Uranium from Russia. Btw, did they set a date for when they will stop importing oil, or is it effective immediately?

Well, and there it seems that Uranium is in the crosshair. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/uranium-producers-soar-after-us-said-weigh-sanctions-russian-nuclear-giant-rosatom

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Apart from the refugee issue you can also usually get a defence of 'Europe' by suggesting somewhere else is better, especially if they don't like/ are competitors with that place. You got an awful lot of people defending Europe- and not just the usual suspects either- over Brexit for example.

That's pretty close to universal as a concept though; I'm not exactly satisfied with New Zealand but try suggesting Australia is better the right/ wrong way and the Lazar Kiwi would be unfurled, the fearsome martial strains of Pokarekare Ana sung and traditional garb of All Blacks jersey worn in response.

Obviously if you can understand someone else's perspective you must also agree with it. How else could you understand it?

At least there aren't any paid shill accusations. I always laughed when that was trotted out against oby, as if he was doing it for anything other than free to get a reaction such as, well, to be accused of being a paid shill.

 

To give myself as an example, as a Portuguese dude living in Sweden, I will defend Portugal if a Swede criticizes it, while I will defend Sweden if the converse happens. 

I can and will criticize both myself though. In other contexts. 

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Hopefully they stick to this commitment because then the Russian invasion will have less global economic impact around this commodity 

The shortage of Russian gas mostly affects Europe which accounted for 40-50% of their supply, the U.S. only imported 5-8% Russian gas prior to invasion and has now cut off completely.  Gas prices are volatile though so if you cut off the 3rd largest supplier it can cause some short term headaches and unknown long term consequences.

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/worlds-top-oil-producers/

(I honestly had no idea that U.S. took top position on oil supplier in the world, I was always under the assumption that they were Saudi Arabs beeyatch).

[rjshae]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

The Russians have just bombed a hospital amongst other civilian targets....so either they the most incompetent army in the world or they are indeed targeting civilians which makes them craven and truly reprehensible 

This was a frequent Russian tactic in Syria.

[kanisatha]

8 hours ago, Malcador said:

US allies (no need for the scare quotes, unless you think allies are vassals..) would definitely help out the US.  Granted, I'd hope you cutting your military a blank cheque would mean it'd perform well enough that it wouldn't be a breaking point.   You Americans getting to experience a war first hand would be educational, though.

As for saving money leaving Europe, you're joking about defense spending going down, right ?

Well it's not a blank check. The Administration has announced this year's budget will see an increase, but it will still be below inflation. Right now the changes being made in our defense posture are structural changes to existing forces. No increases in force size have been announced, as that will cost a lot. And all this in the cotext of China's recent announcement of a massive increase in their defense spending.

As for defense budgets going down, the overall trend has been downward for several years.

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, rjshae said:

This was a frequent Russian tactic in Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike

 

Nice try

Edited March 10, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[kanisatha]

Current intel assesment of Putin's state of mind (his worst actions are yet to come):

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/us/politics/us-intelligence-russia-ukraine.html

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Malcador said:

 

Hes Canadian, he cant be American 

 

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

The shortage of Russian gas mostly affects Europe which accounted for 40-50% of their supply, the U.S. only imported 5-8% Russian gas prior to invasion and has now cut off completely.  Gas prices are volatile though so if you cut off the 3rd largest supplier it can cause some short term headaches and unknown long term consequences.

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/worlds-top-oil-producers/

(I honestly had no idea that U.S. took top position on oil supplier in the world, I was always under the assumption that they were Saudi Arabs beeyatch).

Yes the US has been the largest producer of oil for years, thats another reason why its silly when people go on about " The US only invades countries that have oil " because thats patently untrue