Make the Dark Side more seductive!

[Ivan the Terrible]

Reposted from the General Discussion forum:

 

"One thing that was noticeably different between KOTOR and the D20 game is the nature of Dark Side vs. Light Side.

 

In KOTOR, the two are measured evenly; one becomes 'Light Side' by performing lots of good actions and one becomes 'Dark Side' by performing lots of evil actions. If you want to give up being 'Dark Side', you just have to act like a goody-good for some time, and vice versa.

 

By contrast, in the D20 game, the Dark Side doesn't just sit around waiting for you to perform evil actions. It entices you into them. You can call on the Dark Side to empower you when you're hard-pressed in combat, or to enhance one of your force powers, in exchange for a Dark Side point; the baby steps that eventually lead you over the cliff, essentially. The Dark Side is 'easier'; it allows for more power in the short-term, and in the long term starts collecting it's due by withering away your body and enslaving you more and more. Once you fall completely to the Dark Side, it takes a monumental action of redemption to bring you back.

 

Would the game benefit from showing this better? For example, being able to call on the Dark Side for more power in a particularly tough situation in exchange for another Dark Side point? Withering your physical attributes as you fall deeper into the abyss (beyond just turning all pale and veiny)? Should it be more difficult to return to the Light Side once you've gone 'evil' enough? After all, walking the path of the Light is difficult, while giving in to the Dark is oh so easy...."

 

The more I've thought about this, the more I've liked it. Even KOTOR admits that the 'Dark Side' is more than just 'evil.' It's like a force, trying to suck you in, tempting you, offering easy answers. KOTOR didn't reflect this very well; it was just as easy to get out of the Abyss as it was to fall into it.

 

My examples are just that: examples. Do whatever you think fits the game, but please, do something to make the Dark Side a little more ominous and epic than acting like a schoolyard bully.

[tripleRRR]

This gets my vote.

 

 

TripleRRR

[severxsever]

That thread set a precedent of reason and maturity on these boards. A precedent soon torn to shreds and defecated upon, assuredly, but I don't think that detracts from the thread itself.

 

This gets my vote.

[Tyrell]

Exactly, the Darkside should be something that is trying to lure in the gamer and something that the gamer tries to avoid. In KOTOR it wasn't like that.

[EnderAndrew]

Dialogue in KOTOR somewhat suggested this was the case. Bastilla constantly warned you of the lure of the darkside, one she wasn't sure she could resist. She took chances misleading and lying to Revan in hopes of using Revan's power for good.

 

If you needed to stay good to beat the game, then yes, offer seduction away from said path in favor of power. However, I think in a game where both paths have plausible endings, there is an issue of game balance.

 

If the dark side was considerably more powerful, there needs to be a drawback. Perhaps you weed out, and turn on your companions. Perhaps skills atrophy as you rely solely on the grand power of the Force.

[Darque]

*places a vote*

 

Just like last time

[roshan]

When I saw this topic I thought maybe you meant including Victorias Secret in KOTOR or something...

[Renegade]

I think to some degree what you're talking about is accomplished. Number one I don't think it would be fair to make a person physically decompose(for lack of a better word) over time while being in the dark side because that would say that those strong in the dark side of the force aren't competent fighters. So the next best thing would be to make them companion less. And so you were forced to betray your two best Jedi options and go into the Star Forge without them. On top of that your left with a human(Mandalorian but still human) and a jedi who's been stripped of just about everything you've leveled her up with. So I think to some degree KOTOR implemented what you're talking about but Bioware could only do so much. To say that being a master of the dark side of the force requires you to be a weakling is more than a bit of a stretch IMHO.

 

-Samori

[Darth Jebus]

Number one I don't think it would be fair to make a person physically decompose(for lack of a better word) over time while being in the dark side because that would say that those strong in the dark side of the force aren't competent fighters.

I would tend to disagree with this. The "decomposition" of the body is not evidence of poor fighting skills, but rather an indication of the physical toll the Darkside exerts on those who have fallen to it's path.

 

In fact, one could argue that the reason you begin to look whithered is due to the sheer power coursing through your veins. It's like midichlorians on steroids.

[alx1078]

I totally agree that the dark side must be redone a bit, as it was not so evident in the game why it was so hard to resist. As i said on a post of mine the game needs more subtlety on both sides and a gray area, because not everything is dark and light. I mean i disagree with so much that the jedi council did and said in the game, does that mean that i'm genocidal maniach? I think not and i believe that this should be reflected in the game (a la Jolee).

[Renegade]

I'm not so sure. Take The Emporer for example. It definitely looks like the Dark Side coursing through him is taking it's toll. However it also looks like that's all he has to offer from a combat standpoint. Nothing about him says that if yoda steps in front of his seat he can pick up a light saber and defend himself. If someone is able to fend off his lighting attacks he's basically done for. I don't think that's fair or even legitimate. To me if you have the power of the dark side coursing through you, you should be an even stronger and more vicious fighter. Bodies with the light side going through them would be less adept at that level of viciousness and aggressiveness.

 

-Samori

[Mendoza]

Yeah, but until Yoda went all kickass in episode 2, he didn't look like he could handle a lightsaber. Where Palpatine excels is that he can manipulate events so completely that he never has to personally fight anyone. Apparently he does a fair bit of fighting in episode 3 though, and I know which of Palpatine and Yoda has the power come episode 4.

[tripleRRR]

*votes for this yet againg*

 

Make the dark/light sides worth something!! Gameplay wise it did not matter what side you were on, you could still use the opposite skills, my dark consular could use heal no problem, even though dark jedi are not supposed to be able to do stuff like that, place restrictions please, as well as make the side more mature and distinct.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Renegade]

Yeah, but until Yoda went all kickass in episode 2, he didn't look like he could handle a lightsaber. Where Palpatine excels is that he can manipulate events so completely that he never has to personally fight anyone. Apparently he does a fair bit of fighting in episode 3 though, and I know which of Palpatine and Yoda has the power come episode 4.

Yoda is a completely different example. He NATURALLY looks like he can't fight just because of his size. He was probably born looking feeble. That's not the same for a regularly human who became a Jedi and turned to the dark side.

 

-Samori

[Nydas]

I don't agree that embracing the dark side should cause your character to decay physically. Darth Maul was an extremely buff darkside user, for example.

[daemonicus]

Perhaps as you age, the darkside physically kills you slowly. That could explain why Maul is so strong but Palpatine is feeble looking.

[merentha]

Light or Darkside of the force the weilder ultimately will become one with it. The thing is those who follow the Light realize their goal is to submit and become one with it. Those who follow the Dark seem to think that their 'mastery' of it shows it's a part of them and not the other way around. Their physical changes seem to reflect that they are misinformed and that they are becoming a part of the Darkside as it consumes them.

 

Also the admonishing Yoda gives Luke is that the Darkside is 'quicker, easier, but not stronger'. A beautiful way to tempt a player into using the Darkside w/o going the thugish route is to put them in numerous situations where a Dark use of the force will have a completely altruistic outcome. Now the idea would that the PC would begin down that slippery slope until the Darkside consumes them....but that's hard to write without making a player feel forced into decisions. In literature you can write it, sure you can in the game, but the player will realize things sooner than a character (after all we are the godlike force that controls them...go with me on that concept) and can quite easily decide oops, dipped my darkside meter too far, time to do some 'good' deeds to bring it up.

 

The entire fall (with or without a redemption) can be written but odds are most of us would miss it because we'd take the some good some bad approach to try and come out mostly good. Granted they mentioned trying to end it similar to how Fallout ended. This would rock because then they could in deed show in insidious fall to the Darkside by the player that would show up years later by the aftermath of what we do on the various worlds we visit. At least I see that as a possibilty..ok I gotta quit this I'm wearing out my fingers

[Nydas]

Perhaps as you age, the darkside physically kills you slowly. That could explain why Maul is so strong but Palpatine is feeble looking.

But you're not going to age during the timeframe of the game, are you? Well, it would be kinda cool if the game did take place over several years, but it's unlikely.

[EnderAndrew]

Maul was quite skilled in martial arts and the saber.

 

However, who is to say he used the Force and the Dark Side all that often?

 

Perhaps Palpatine feeds on that power far more often and thusly he has much more DS rot.

[Darth Jebus]

Maul was also a COMPLETE IDIOT. He just stood there and watched as Obi-Wan flipped over his head and cut him in two.

[EnderAndrew]

Maul was also a COMPLETE IDIOT. He just stood there and watched as Obi-Wan flipped over his head and cut him in two.

I chalk that up to a poor decision on the director's part.

 

It was anticlimactic.

 

I would have rather seen Obi-Wan allow himself to be impaled (in non-mortally wounding fashion) to take down Maul, or have shear luck be a factor.

 

I hate it when some great "master" just decides to not block or defend themselves all of a sudden.