alx1078

Bastilla hands down. There was just little or no attatchment to any of the others, except for Mission but as someone said before me she has more the little sister vibe. Handmaiden probably is close second in the hotness scale, but it just wasn't developed enough for me (the romance i mean) And i can't understand how you could vote Visas as Hot?? You can't see her frigging face (well... the top half anyway, which is the most important. You can't see her eyes!!) She always reminded me of the jokes about really ugly women/people ... bag over the head... etc.

Someone mentioned BG Mods. Can anyone suggest any good Mods they have actually tried? NPCs Storylines whatever... As for Bloodlines, i just couldn't be bothered after about 3 hours of play. It just didn't do it for me. NWN i have played through it and have finished it. I quite enjoyed it apart from the ending which was plain...

Concerning the debate of whether it has plotholes or if it is clear as to what exactly happened, i'm going to just say that the important aspect of PS Torment was that while playing (despite not knowing what exactly you did in the past) you really got the feeling that you would probably get what you deserved at the end. I do not doubt that. My main grief with it is that in the end it just felt rushed. While the pace was fairly slow throughout the whole of the game (which i certainly didn't mind), suddenly you hit the fortress and you're going at a 100 miles per hour on the freeway just before the finish line. I was not allowed to enjoy fully as i should the ending of my quest and the thing that bothered me most, is that in the end i didn't get to interact with my companions as i would have liked to. That kinda killed it for me. As to whether the story line is better than BG: I do not deny that it is in fact deeper, with much more morally ambiguous decisions and plotlines, but i get the feeling that for most people it's just: darker=better, deeper, more clever etc. Everytime i talk with someone about PS Torment i get the feeling that the sole reason they consider PS so much better story-wise than BG is the fact that it's darker and more twisted than BG (which of course goes along with the delight of most RPG players of playing it evil.... which i never quite understood... -not that i don't enjoy the occasional evil run in a good RPG )

Ok. I remember playing the game, but i don't remember anything about any contract. I know (or at least i realised) that he was trying to escape from the blood wars, but i can't say i remember anything said about contracts.

Exactly my point! Although i wouldn't go so far as to call it a plothole, as throughout the game you got the feeling that you weren't the nicest guy. But still there should be something more thn just "off to hell with you!"

Or it could just mean that the story is so good that you don't mind replaying it, kinda like a really good movie. At least that's how it was for me.

Many times i was on the verge of buying Deus Ex as i have heard quite a few positive reviews about it, but every time i changed my mind. I don't know something about it always threw me off. Maybe i'll have to give it a try. Twice i started both of them (FO & FO 2) and twice i gave up, simply because i can't stand all this turn based nonsense. It just gets on my nerves that you have to calculate each friggin square or you might loose a turn! And mice! AAARRRGG!!!!!!

Ok now i'm confused.... I didn't want to say anything specific as i'm not sure what the spoiler policy is for other games but here goes. Inside the fortress the story suddenly sped up! And when i reached the final battle, after i beat myself, i had literaly a couple of lines with each member of my party, and i'm back to the demon wars! Now as i played through it only once i'm not sure if i missed anything else. ToB was an epic story. It has of course an unfair advantage being a trilogy, but the whole story was very nicely done and extremely satisfying. And i believe you are wrong, meaning, the story may have been pretty straightforward as a whole, but the story-telling was amazing. you felt as if everything you did tied to a greater picture, which started way back in BG I and culminated with the conclusion of the story of the God of Murder. That coupled with the excellent supporting cast and the interaction with them, is what made BG the most satisfying series i've ever played. :cool: BTW Sargallath love the gif with Anna. My favorite character in PST, and one of the main reasons i was bummed with the ending. I was looking for some tail lovin'

I'm almost done with my second play through of KOTOR II as DSM, and find myself not knowing what to play now... I'm reaching a point where i'm close to installing KOTOR again and playing it for the fourth time, or even worse BG II and playin it for the gazillionth time. Any suggestions would be very welcome. Thanks Alex PS- I'm more interested in the story, characters and interactions aspects of RPGs not so much the rules (i never cared whether a game had 3rd edition rules or whatever). Also i don't care much for hack 'n slash style junk like Diablo or IWD. Favorites incl. BG II, PS Torment, KOTOR, FF 8 & 9. Tried Gothic, Morrowind, Divine Divinity and Bloodlines but soon lost interest in them.

I've read through many posts in these forums and practically everyone seems to be praising PS Torment and hailing it as the best crpg, and at the same time diss games with abrupt or/and crappy endings. Don't get me wrong PS Torment is indeed one of the best games out there and certainly among the top 3 crpgs of all time but the fact remains that its ending sucked!!! The whole thing started going downhill since you entered the final stronghold, with sloppy storytelling and leaps in logic, and after you beat ... the final opponent... it's just a 10 second video and that's it. For a game to be considered the best crpg it has to be consistent from start to finish, and Torment while amazing almost throughout, hobbled for the last couple of meters. BG Throne of Bhaal on the other hand which is just labeled as "good" by most, is the most consistent and balanced game out there (granted that the final revelation of your true enemy in Throne of Bhaal is not THAT exciting) from beginning to end. It leaves you feeling that indeed you just completed this epic adventure/journey (along with your friends- the most important aspect of the BG series), and most of all it leaves you with a sense of CLOSURE, something lacking by PS Torment and indeed most other games out there incl. KOTOR and especially KOTOR II.

1. BG 2 and Throne of Bhaal (PC) 2. Championship manager series and FM 2005 (PC) 3. Total War series (PC) 4. Final Fantasy 8 & 9 (PS) 6. Pro Evolution Series (PS2) 5. PS Torment (PC) 7. WWE Smackdown HCTP (PS2) 8. KOTOR (PC) 9. KOTOR II TSL (PC) 10. Civilisation series (PC) Close but not quite GTA San Andreas (PS2) Quite diverse, wouldn't you say? :cool:

I do not understand how, as many before claimed, TSL handled romance better than KOTOR I. If what they mean is that there was practically no romance and that suits them better, fine by me. I know a lot of people don't like romance or romantic stuff in general in their games and that's fine, but that doesn't mean that the absence of something means better handling. Yes there were hints, there was a (VERY) subtle flirting of sorts, but that's about it. Emotional involvement with any characters (save Kreia) was practically non existent, because the whole thing was not handled that well. Let's take Visas who plays a major (supposedly) part in one of the final battles. As it happened in my game i didn't use her that much and had miniscule influence with her, hence very few dialogue went on between us. Then all of a sudden before i'm off to the Ravager she's that major player in the story who (apparently) loves me and would sacrifice herself for me. I'm left with no choice but to have her in my party in the battle with Nihilus, hence my choices up to that point (concerning the rest of my party) and the influence i had with them, are rendered useless and unimportant. The same of course would hold true if i didn't use the handmaiden and had little influence with her, and she then went on her revenge thingy with Atris. It would have been out of the blue. (at least you're not forced to have the handmaiden no matter what) If the devs wanted for certain events to happen no matter what, then they shouldn't say that your choices matter, and they should just force you to develop a more intimate relationship with the character they plan to make so important later on. That way at least when the event with that character happens it might actually mean something. In KOTOR I you were more or less led into developing feelings for Bastila (and luckily i did), so when the events of the end unfolded, you WERE emotionally involved in the whole thing. RPGs, adventures and generally games with story lines and characters work exactly like movies and novels. If you don't feel an emotional attatchment to the characters, then you don't give a rat's A%S what happens to them, which in turns affects the whole experience negatively. Having said all that, i must say that TSL had many things that were far better than KOTOR I (moral ambiguity, more dark and mature storyline) but character development and romance were not among them.

Exactly what i've been trying to say! Very true. In Kotor I actually cared what happened to my teammates, and the only time i was actually worried in KOTOR II is when you go to Telos and find Atris and the Handmaiden and Atris strikes down the Handmaiden. After i defeated Atris (before i talked to her again) i rushed to where the Handmaiden was lying and there was no little circly thingy on her. It was like she was part of the background and for a minute i thought Atris had actually killed her. That's the only time i can remember in the game that i actually cared what would happen to any of my teammates. Other than that (with the exception perhaps of the maiden) they could have all crashed with the Hawk and i wouldn't bat an eyelash (at least in my first run of the game)

Perhaps i didn't make myself clear before. Of course the bigger the pool of NPCs the less development each will have. That's not what i meant. What i had in mind was having a large pool of NPCs (say around 10-12 as in this game) but only taking with you each time you play about 4. That way those 4 characters would have to talk a lot more and be more complex in order for the game to not be a Diablo hack and slash fest, and you'd become more engaged with the characters you had with you each time.

First off romance -wise there was none in TSL. There were hints, and probably some flirting (not even pg stuff " ), but not a romance. As for the NPCs i agree that there should be a large pool of NPCs and then 4-5 came along for the ride. You hold the replayability factor, but then they would have to make the characters with much more depth and much more talkative to cover for the whole of the game. Having 4-5 characters in the ebon hawk will also feel like a closer camaraderie, than a whole army of NPCs most of whom you'd never pick anyway. With so many NPCs they just have to think of one part on the whole story that each would fit, and that's it. That's why in the end you don't really care too much for any of them. And i disagree that they are more in depth or more mature than the first one. Kreia is, but that's about it. The fact that they are all more morally ambiguous is a given since the game as a whole is like that, but that alone does not make them more in depth or more mature, than Bastila, Carth, Mission, Jolee and HK-47. Sure they have the potential to become so much more, but they stop way before they reach it.