The Cinema and Movie Thread

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Double posting and quoting myself, I should be ashamed.

On 4/11/2022 at 3:35 PM, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

https://www.avclub.com/secret-david-lynch-movie-cannes-laura-dern-1848779394

If true, that is a very pleasant surprise.

https://ew.com/movies/david-lynch-inland-empire-cannes/

It's not true. But remastered Inland Empire sounds good. Hopefully it gets released on VoD or somewhere else.

Edited April 13, 2022 by KP wants Blue Velvet

[Tale]

Still watching the 8 film Spider-Man collection. And I have something controversial to say.

The Andrew Garfield Spider-Man films are the best of the lot. He's tragic, but perseveres, his chemistry with Emma Stone is great, and all of his villains are interesting aside from Green Goblin. The Green Goblin in 2 is Venom in Raimi's 3 level garbage. Or a bit worse.

[Bartimaeus]

Beggars of Life (1928). First two minutes of the film, a man wanders into a house to ask for a place to stay for the night, only to find the master of the house keeled over with a bullet through his skull. Cue Lulu entering the scene and anxiously explaining that yeah, she killed him - he was her adoptive father and he had been sexually abusing her ever since he adopted her, and she had finally had enough and shot him dead this morning when he attempted to rape her. Uh...yeah, so are there any starring roles that this poor woman played where she was not sexually abused? Good lord, this is a ridiculous level of typecasting. Would it be so difficult for her to be generic happy protagonist girl, just once?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

 

[Sarex]

The newest Batman movie was actually ok, considering my expectations were fairly low. Still nowhere close to Nolan's.

[rjshae]

We watched the latest Dune movie and enjoyed it. The music is very moody but the visuals and effects are impressive. I could easily watch it a few more times.

One thing I wish media movie releases would do is provide an option where the vocals are increased by about 15-30 Db. It's hard to hear them over the ambient background noises and music.

[Sarex]

8 hours ago, rjshae said:

We watched the latest Dune movie and enjoyed it. The music is very moody but the visuals and effects are impressive. I could easily watch it a few more times.

One thing I wish media movie releases would do is provide an option where the vocals are increased by about 15-30 Db. It's hard to hear them over the ambient background noises and music.

Well that usually means that your sound system is lacking, ie. you are using the TV speakers. But even then there is usually a sound setting on the TV it self to focus vocals.

[Lexx]

That reminds me .. for some reason every software on my TV (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc) thinks that I have a 5.1 sound system... but I don't. I have 2 speakers in the TV in front of me ... Every time, on every single movie I have to manually switch back to stereo, or else the 5.1 sound will mix wrong and the voices get drowned. Super annoying. Why does nobody offer a setting to force stereo?

Edited April 19, 2022 by Lexx

[Bartimaeus]

11 hours ago, Sarex said:

Well that usually means that your sound system is lacking, ie. you are using the TV speakers. But even then there is usually a sound setting on the TV it self to focus vocals.

How about when you do actually invest a good chunk of change into a decent sound system...only to discover that you straight up still do not like having the volume high enough where you can hear all the dialogue due to excessive volume in other parts of the film? I sure love either having to manually raise and lower volume constantly or just enable subtitles on all-English films in order to not get headaches. It's part of the reason why if I'm going to watch a film by myself, I really have zero qualms about just putting on my headphones and watching it at my PC instead (hell, even a tablet with headphones is better if it means being able to hear everything while not getting a headache...).

Edited April 19, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Gfted1]

Wheel of Fortune does me like that. Whenever the theme music is playing I cant hear what Pat is saying. But it only happens with that particular show.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

How about when you do actually invest a good chunk of change into a decent sound system...only to discover that you straight up still do not like having the volume high enough where you can hear all the dialogue due to excessive volume in other parts of the film? I sure love either having to manually raise and lower volume constantly or just enable subtitles on all-English films in order to not get headaches. It's part of the reason why if I'm going to watch a film by myself, I really have zero qualms about just putting on my headphones and watching it at my PC instead (hell, even a tablet with headphones is better if it means being able to hear everything while not getting a headache...).

Well some movies simply have bad sound mixing, there is no way around that. The disclaimer here is that I do not have a good sound system, but I did help my brother get a decent one and upon doing research nothing does everything good. It's always a give and take, and about what you care about, be it bass, vocal, balance, etc...

Edited April 19, 2022 by Sarex

[Bartimaeus]

Triumph of the Will (1935). "The infamous propaganda film of the 1934 Nazi Party rally in Nuremberg, Germany." It was about the time Hitler smiled at me and looked into my soul that I realized that I may have made a mistake in sating my morbid curiosity as to what a Nazi rally propaganda film would look like.

What's up with fascists and their outrageously flamboyant theatrics and pageantry, anyways? I basically just watched two hours of Nazis marching in a parade, except instead of being for entertainment, it's supposed to instill some kind of wonderful sense of national pride. Obviously, I'm not the correct target audience for this seeing as I hate Nazis, but man, I just don't get it.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Triumph of the Will (1935). "The infamous propaganda film of the 1934 Nazi Party rally in Nuremberg, Germany." It was about the time Hitler smiled at me and looked into my soul that I realized that I may have made a mistake in sating my morbid curiosity as to what a Nazi rally propaganda film would look like.

What's up with fascists and their outrageously flamboyant theatrics and pageantry, anyways? I basically just watched two hours of Nazis marching in a parade, except instead of being for entertainment, it's supposed to instill some kind of wonderful sense of national pride. Obviously, I'm not the correct target audience for this seeing as I hate Nazis, but man, I just don't get it.

couldn't helped but be reminded o' a recent video.

obvious this is kinda tongue-in-cheek, and perhaps too soon for some, but am thinking your comment 'bout target audiences is what is essential. we chuckle at the vid we link, but a handful o' obsidian posters is gonna reflexive whataboutism or worse, they is gonna outright identify with z... whatever z is. 

viewing propaganda dispassionate, particular fascist propaganda, is never gonna fully explain its success. what made those pre-war rallies work is they were bypassing reasonable and rational. too many dismissed a fringey and extreme movement seeming led by a funny little caricature o' a man 'cause they were looking at the rallies and marches rational and reasonable.

focus on trump and what trump says is a mistake. the crowd cheered, and the crowds kept growing. am betting you watch trump rallies and marvel at how willful obtuse must be those cheering and supporting, but you ain't the target audience. current gop has realized that thanks to the almost unique US republican scheme, they got a formula which succeeds with a populist who is only speaking to 20-30% o' the US population.

putin is extreme popular in russia, far more popular than is trump in the US, and some o' that approval is justified. russians were freezing and starving during the 1990s, while western nations were ignoring the suffering. after ww2, japan and germany were rebuilt with the aid o' a whole lotta western money. after the cold war the carcass o' the soviet union were seen as a source o' potential plunder by domestic gangsters as well as foreign multinationals. putin may be a bad guy, but he did save a whole lotta russians and they will never abandon him. period. add to this a kinda endemic russian conspiracy theory mentality coupled with (understandable if not reasonable) NATO/western fear, loathing and envy such that no source other than state tv/media is gonna be believed, and the current russian propaganda which looks transparent silly to you or Gromnir is widely accepted by russians. 

...

and 'cause the predictable whataboutism responses will derail the thread, am gonna observe how am actual looking forward to the new thor movie, and will make this a legit segue by observing how we were one o' the folks who saw merit in taika waititi's jojo rabitt. am believing the writer o' the recent hawkeye tv show co-wrote new thor with taika waititi, so that is also a plus for us. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Gromnir

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Triumph of the Will (1935). "The infamous propaganda film of the 1934 Nazi Party rally in Nuremberg, Germany." It was about the time Hitler smiled at me and looked into my soul that I realized that I may have made a mistake in sating my morbid curiosity as to what a Nazi rally propaganda film would look like.

What's up with fascists and their outrageously flamboyant theatrics and pageantry, anyways? I basically just watched two hours of Nazis marching in a parade, except instead of being for entertainment, it's supposed to instill some kind of wonderful sense of national pride. Obviously, I'm not the correct target audience for this seeing as I hate Nazis, but man, I just don't get it.

 

The short answer is that you're not the target audience, so it looks extremely goofy and dumb to you. Like the above video I linked. The long answer is something I'm too tired to type, but suffice to say that fascism needs to have a threat to be a response to (communism, racial others, "degeneracy", shadowy cabals) while projecting itself as the force needed to stop it and preserve the mythic past. The pageantry is (partially) constitutive of the latter.

[Bartimaeus]

@KP wants Blue Velvet There was actually literally like a ten or fifteen minute segment that the film pivoted to where piles of young men in Hitler Youth camps were doing weird stuff together pretty much on the level of that video. Once again, I couldn't help but feel that I'm not exactly the target audience for this sort of thing, .

@Gromnir I've never felt the kind of loyalty or inspiration or whatever it is it takes to feel that kind of civic "virtue"...about anyone or anything, really, so it's a little hard for me to really "get it". Perhaps the calamitous times of the future will give me an opportunity to change that, .

Edited April 20, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

10 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

There was actually literally like a ten minute or fifteen minute segment in the film where we pivoted to some Hitler Youth camps where piles of young men were doing weird stuff together pretty much on the level of that video.

Yeah, you tend to see that a lot with reactionaries. A bunch of (amateur) bodybuilders cosplaying as romans and doing oil massages is going to look very dumb and homoerotic to passerby. But while gay fascists (almost exclusively men) do definitely exist, by and large it is more of having a specific conception of masculinity and "tradvition" than it is intentionally homoerotic. And the (openly) gay fascists are stuff like Nazi catboys, which do exist and are probably on my top ten lists of thing I wish I could forget.

[Bartimaeus]

1 minute ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Nazi catboys

And yet here you are, not only repeating utterances of its existence to yourself, but also sharing it with the rest of us.

Honestly, I'm all for re-accepting some lost forms of masculinity as being completely normal even if they're not for me, but certainly not in the name of fascism. If Tolkien was able to write about how close eight different guys all became over the course of a traumatic war-time adventure, and most of the modern audience was able to accept it without immediately thinking "that's gay", and it didn't require invoking fascist ideas...well by golly, I think we're ready to move on as a society.

Yeah, so as it turns out, I did a little online searching, and Tolkien's a little bit of an unwilling fascist icon. Who knew? Not that I don't see how a few particular details of the LotR books could be considered problematic with a modern eye analyzing them, but come on.

[Gromnir]

the tucker carlson vid offered by kp cuts off before it gets to the best/worst part: testicle tanning. 

edit: am seeing is subscription, so will offer a small portion, for educational purposes

The second season of the Fox News host’s docuseries is trending thanks to a trailer for the episode, “The End of Men.” The series promises to offer solutions to the “problem” of declining masculinity, with one promo video showing ripped bare-chested men flipping truck tires, chopping wood, and shooting machine guns in an ultimate display of Crossfit allegiance.  But Tuck outdid himself with one segment in particular on testicular tanning — a practice so ludicrous it might be the one time everyone can agree with Kid Rock.

As with many outlandish health claims supported by no evidence, the notion that low-level laser therapy will increase testosterone and fertility is not new. Red light therapy — or as the Hungarian scientists named it in 1967, photobiomodulation — is experiencing a renaissance in potential treatments for muscle recovery, depression, and wound healing, topics regularly discussed on far right wellness podcasts with affiliate links to massage guns and infrared saunas. 

Which naturally led some men to strip naked and point the light at their balls. 

...

Umberto Eco Makes a List of the 14 Common Features of Fascism

people throw around "fascism" often w/o thinking what it means.  that said, am o' the opinion the naked appeal to toxic masculinity by tuck is gonna satisfy at least one o' umberto eco's factors.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 20, 2022 by Gromnir

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

18 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

And yet here you are, not only repeating utterances of its existence to yourself, but also sharing it with the rest of us.

Hell enjoys company.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-it-could-happen-here-30717896/episode/the-curious-case-of-nazi-catboys-94889782/

23 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, so as it turns out, I did a little online searching, and Tolkien's a little bit of an unwilling fascist icon.

They've also tried claiming the Matrix and Angry Birds. It is something else.

[majestic]

3 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

They've also tried claiming the Matrix and Angry Birds. It is something else.

A certain 'sharp' poster of the past with a distinctly right wing bent had George Orwell quotes in his signature. They're co-opting any- and everything that fits their worldview. It gave me a chuckle every time I saw it, right next to that picture of Trump. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

6 minutes ago, majestic said:

A certain 'sharp' poster of the past with a distinctly right wing bent had George Orwell quotes in his signature. They're co-opting any- and everything that fits their worldview. It gave me a chuckle every time I saw it, right next to that picture of Trump. 

It's especially weird given that Orwell went to Spain explicitly to kill fascists. But I guess death of the author.

[Amentep]

Triumph of the Will was distributed by UFA.  Prior to the Nazi takeover of film in Germany, UFA made a science fiction film F.P.1 antwortet nicht (lit "F.P.1 doesn't answer").  The movie about a race by an idealist, Lt Droste to create a floating platform in the Atlantic for air travel being sabotaged by less-inspired industrialists and political types.  Meanwhile Drost, his friend Ellison (a flying ace) and Claire, who owns the docks the plans for the floating platform were created in have a romantic triangle to sort out.  A big success, the film inspired an insult to Hitler where he was referred to in the early days of his rise to power as "P.G.1 antwortet nicht." (meaning "Parteigenosse 1 antwortet nicht," or "Party Member 1 doesn't answer.")  Maybe you had to be there.  But I imagine Hitler took some satisfaction when he took over UFA and had them put out Triumph...

F.P.1 was directed by Karl Hartl, an Austian who remained working for the Austrian arm of the German government when they nationalized UFA. Hartl returned to directing post-war in Austria and did so until the early 60s.  He died in 1978.

F.P.1 starred Hans Albers as the flying ace (who went on to do another sci-fi film that squeaked under the Nazi control, Gold). Albers also stayed in Germany, but as a big star he never endorsed the Nazi party.  Albers, after the end of WWII and unlike many actors who stayed in Germany, was able to find work even if in a much reduced fashion, usually in wise old man roles.  Partially this was due to his early popularity, partially because he never endorsed the Nazi party and partially because he had a Jewish partner, Hansi Burg.  While they stayed partners during the war, for her safety he got her to Switzerland; Albers was so popular he didn't get blacklisted even though the Nazi's knew of the relationship. He died in 1960, having become increasingly dependent on alcohol.

His female lead was Sybille Schmitz as Claire.  She also stayed in Germany during the war, but post-war her career never recovered despite the fact she had a contentions relationship with the Nazi run film industry.  Finding few film roles and spiraling in drugs and depression, she committed suicide in 1955.  The third lead, Droste, went to Paul Hartmann.  He too stayed in Germany, and like Albers he continued to work after the war through 1969 (and appeared in the 1962 film the Longest Day).  He died in 1977.  Peter Lorre had a small part as the photographer friend of Albers; Lorre famously fled Germany, first to England and the to the US where he had a long career as heavies in dramatic and comedic roles.  Similarly writer Kurt Siodmak, whose book the film was based on and who co-wrote the screenplay, fled Germany, ending up in the US where he changed his name to Curt Siodmak and wrote and directed a veritable 'who's who' list of films that would be recognized by Monster Kids (including The Wolf-Man and I walked with a Zombie) 

F.P.1 like other big productions in the early sound period was made three times.  Once in German, once in French and the Second in English. The French version, called I.F.1 Ne Répond Plus stared Charles Boyer as Ellison.  Boyer was already an international star, starring in films made in several countries.  While he enlisted during the early part of WWII, he was discharged to make films in the US as it was believed that would support the cause better.   He would continue acting in films into the mid-70s.  In declining health himself, he committed suicide after the death of his wife.  Claire was played by Danièle Parola who made several films in multiple countries in the late 20s and 30s.  She was married to actor André Daven and died in 1998.  The role of Droste went to Jean Murat who continued making films through the war for France and into the 1960s.  He passed away in 1968.  The French version of the film is considered lost.

The English language version of the film ended up being a much shorter film than the German original.  It was released as F.P.1 in the UK, then reissued as Secrets of F.P.1 and released as F.P.1 Doesn't Answer in the US and Where the Light house Shines Across the Bay in Australia (literally WTF Australia?) and starred Conrad Viedt (Cesare in Das Cabinet des Dr. Caligari and Gwynplaine in The Man Who Laughs) stars as Ellison.  Viedt had a long career in German and UK film, but died young due to a congenital heart condition in 1943.  Jill Esmond, Laurence Olivier's first wife, stars as Claire.  Her acting career slowed down after Olivier and she divorced so Olivier could marry Vivian Leigh; presumably this was as she had to take care of their son.  Olivier and Esmond remained friendly through the rest of his life, and he never stopped paying her alimony. Their son recalls her writing to him late in her life that she still loved Olivier despite everything.  She died in 1990. Leslie Fenton played Droste; Fenton was born in the UK but his family had emigrated to the US when he was young.  He made many films in the 20s and 30s before becoming a director.  His second career was cut short by WWII where he joined the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve and was wounded during Operation Chariot.  Post war her returned to the US and directed a few more films before retiring in the late 1950s.  He died in 1978.

So all this is the wind-up, but given the Nazi-era film stuff, I thought it might be interesting background.  I watched the Secrets of F.P.1 version of this film.  Its definitely early sound filming, and I think the shortened running time particularly hurts understanding the relationship triangle between Ellison-Claire-Droste and I think makes the motivations of the saboteurs less clear.  But its an engaging early film anyhow, and other than a few quibble about things not being clear in the film, worth watching I think.

[Malcador]

35 minutes ago, majestic said:

A certain 'sharp' poster of the past with a distinctly right wing bent had George Orwell quotes in his signature. They're co-opting any- and everything that fits their worldview. It gave me a chuckle every time I saw it, right next to that picture of Trump. 

1984 is always warning people about the other guys.

[Bartimaeus]

@Amentep I came across Triumph of the Will because of Leni Riefenstahl, the director of the film, whose name was mentioned alongside Louise Brooks' as they apparently shared an early director, whereupon I saw that she was a Nazi collaborator and became a director. It was difficult not to be interested in what an apparently famous female Nazi director cooked up in the 1930s for the party. It sure was an experience.

I don't really know anything about the silent film era or thereabouts - I was mostly just interested in Louise Brooks' work, of which there isn't much. I may or may not check out F.P.1 at some point, although it seems like the longer German version of the film was received better than the English...and they certainly got the better movie poster, which is often the ultimate arbiter of quality, .

Edited April 20, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

Yeah, the German version is supposed to be better, but I had time to watch the short English version.  I wish the French version wasn't lost, as it'd be fun to see all three versions. I was just a victim of time though with respect to the German version.

I don't think there will ever be consensus on Riefenstahl, whose works were acclaimed at the time for their technical skill even if their role as Nazi propaganda (and thus her role as well) makes them notorious.  I thought Brooks had met Riefenstahl when she was in Germany as well?  I know G. W. Pabst (Die Büchse der Pandora, Tagebuch einer Verlorenen) had been the co-director of Die weiße Hölle vom Piz Palü and they all date to 1929.